Intake Manifold Valley Pan Installation

[jbojo]

I use 2 bolts that I got from Home depot and just cut the heads off. I put one in the front and back of one head and it works perfectly every time.

 

[adm22]

Word to the wise O'reillys computer is screwed up and if you have a 351c they will try and sell you the same valley pan gasket wether or not you have a 2V or 4V intake it is the one for a 4v and if you put it on the 2V like I did it will make some really nasty noises when you try and start the engine, and then you will hae to pull it all apart and do it all over again with the right one. It does look a wee bit off when you put it onn, bit as this was my fist time rying it I knew no better.

 

[Mikes73]

No valley pan gasket here with an edelbrock intake and no isses so far. +1 on all thread or bolts with the head cut off to line everything up.

 

[4mm]

subscribing

 

[73pony]

Sorry to bring the thread up again. I just want to clarify that the valley pan is not necessary? I will be installing a Holley Street Dominator Intake (got a good deal thanks to one of our members). I did have it blasted and powder coated on the top side and bottom. So with the powder coat providing fairly good insulating property I assume I can install without the valley pan??

 

[mjlan]

My take on the turkey pan is that using it is personal preference.

Ford put one underneath the OEM cast iron intake to prevent oil from getting on the bottom of the intake where it is heated by the cross over that runs underneath the plenum. Since aluminum intakes transfer heat at a different rate than cast iron ones, leaving the turkey pan off probably doesn't make much difference other than a big stain on the bottom of the intake.

If you are using an aluminum intake without an exhaust cross over then you probably have even less to worry about.

However, there probably is an argument that says a turkey pan (under an aluminum intake) would prevent hot oil from transferring heat into the intake. The same logic for going to an 'air gap' style intake...

So, long version is it's up to you!

 

[tony-muscle]

My take on the turkey pan is that using it is personal preference.

Ford put one underneath the OEM cast iron intake to prevent oil from getting on the bottom of the intake where it is heated by the cross over that runs underneath the plenum. Since aluminum intakes transfer heat at a different rate than cast iron ones, leaving the turkey pan off probably doesn't make much difference other than a big stain on the bottom of the intake.

If you are using an aluminum intake without an exhaust cross over then you probably have even less to worry about.

However, there probably is an argument that says a turkey pan (under an aluminum intake) would prevent hot oil from transferring heat into the intake. The same logic for going to an 'air gap' style intake...

So, long version is it's up to you!

I have read a lot of opinions about this topic and I agree with your take. From the heat transfer perspective it is clear that with the pan it should run cooler. The question then is, how much cooler? So is it worth going through the effort for a few degrees. It will be interesting if anyone has measured the temperature of the manifold with and without the valley pan.

1971 M-code Mach 1

 

[jbojo]

I used the turkey pan with my manifold. There is a small gap between the pan and the manifold so it should prevent heat transfer from the oil hitting the bottom of the pan and not the manifold.. Later today I'll start the car and let it run for a while and see what the manifold temp is and post it.

 

[barnett468]

My take on the turkey pan is that using it is personal preference.

Ford put one underneath the OEM cast iron intake to prevent oil from getting on the bottom of the intake where it is heated by the cross over that runs underneath the plenum. Since aluminum intakes transfer heat at a different rate than cast iron ones, leaving the turkey pan off probably doesn't make much difference other than a big stain on the bottom of the intake.

If you are using an aluminum intake without an exhaust cross over then you probably have even less to worry about.

However, there probably is an argument that says a turkey pan (under an aluminum intake) would prevent hot oil from transferring heat into the intake. The same logic for going to an 'air gap' style intake...

So, long version is it's up to you!

I have read a lot of opinions about this topic and I agree with your take. From the heat transfer perspective it is clear that with the pan it should run cooler. The question then is, how much cooler? So is it worth going through the effort for a few degrees. It will be interesting if anyone has measured the temperature of the manifold with and without the valley pan.

1971 M-code Mach 1

the pan wont reduce heat much at all but blocking the exhaust crossover in the intake will.

keep n mind, the hot ar from inside he engine and the cylinder heads will sill heat the intake with or without the pan on.

 

[Manu Mach1]

Question:

I'm surprised about what I read on this thread, since I know we can buy pan gasket kit (i still have a brand new one for a 2V heads).

Is there a pan on original engines?

(Q code from 1973).

 

[timachone]

Question:

I'm surprised about what I read on this thread, since I know we can buy pan gasket kit (i still have a brand new one for a 2V heads).

Is there a pan on original engines?

(Q code from 1973).

I am surprised at the whole discussion... I had never problems by installing the pan with the gaskets and no leaks after. And I did not do anything special than using RTV over all. I think the pan is good as a heat shield against the manifold even if it is of aluminum. As others have mentioned there could be starting issues caused by heated gas, especially on Ram Air - setups - even with a aluminum manifold. I will ever install one because every little counts.

Yes, the original engines had pans.

And yes; I have bought complete sets from Fel Pro with pan and RTV for about 20 dollars I guess...

 

[Stanglover]

This is a very interesting thread. When my 'M' code engine was rebuilt late 2012, the builder did not use gaskets with the valley pan, saying they never use them unless absolutely necessary. They did use RTV on the ends though. As they also did not block off the heat risers as requested, I removed the (original) intake manifold to do the job myself. More later on that if needed. There must have been a pint of oil in the valley and obvious leaks. I purchased an new Fel-Pro valley pan kit with gaskets and RTV and followed instructions. I did cut an additional 2 blanks of .020" SS just larger than the heat ports and cut the gaskets to suit, cementing in with a smear of high heat exhaust cement. The result, no leaks and no more high heat under the Holley 670 S/A carb. and a far better running engine. Some of you will have read previous post about my timing issues and screwed up pistons. The motor is back at the shop and no matter what I decided to do to fix those issues, I will be putting the intake back the same way I did it before. There are thicker gaskets available to be used on intakes where the valley pan is NOT used, as in racing engines. (I have a set).

Again, very interesting points of view and some useful suggestions.

 

[barnett468]

As others have mentioned there could be starting issues caused by heated gas, especially on Ram Air - setups - even with a aluminum manifold.

Nope, this is incorrect . . if it has starting issues because the gas in the carb is hot it is not because there is no turkey pan.

if it has a holley carb, the gas level in the bowls should be set to just below the inspection hole with the engine running . . this cures 99% of hot starting issues . . if this doesn't help, then a thick paper gasket or 5/16 inch thick phenolic spacer will help.

if i still has a prob the exhaust crossover in th intake should be plugged.

if it still has a problem, it lies elsewhere but will never, ever, be because it does not have a valley pan...ever.

 

[jbojo]

Add to my previous post.

Today I measured the temp of the intake manifold after the car was completely warmed and running for awhile. Mind you the temp here is 30* F now so these readings would be different in the summer. The block temp was 185* F (180 thermostat) and the intake at the carb base was 165* F. I have a large radiator so the coolant temp rarely goes over 185 in the summer anyway. It is an aluminum intake so it probably doesn't retain heat as much as a cast one would and also has the turkey pan installed, not sure why you wouldn't want to use it. I have never had any vacuum leak issues with this setup. I have the Ram Air setup.

Would be curious to see what a cast iron manifold temp is with no pan installed.

 

[tony-muscle]

Add to my previous post.

Today I measured the temp of the intake manifold after the car was completely warmed and running for awhile. Mind you the temp here is 30* F now so these readings would be different in the summer. The block temp was 185* F (180 thermostat) and the intake at the carb base was 165* F. I have a large radiator so the coolant temp rarely goes over 185 in the summer anyway. It is an aluminum intake so it probably doesn't retain heat as much as a cast one would and also has the turkey pan installed, not sure why you wouldn't want to use it. I have never had any vacuum leak issues with this setup. I have the Ram Air setup.

Would be curious to see what a cast iron manifold temp is with no pan installed.

Does anyone know whats the typical oil temperature in our engines?

1971 M-code Mach 1

 

[jbojo]

Add to my previous post.

Today I measured the temp of the intake manifold after the car was completely warmed and running for awhile. Mind you the temp here is 30* F now so these readings would be different in the summer. The block temp was 185* F (180 thermostat) and the intake at the carb base was 165* F. I have a large radiator so the coolant temp rarely goes over 185 in the summer anyway. It is an aluminum intake so it probably doesn't retain heat as much as a cast one would and also has the turkey pan installed, not sure why you wouldn't want to use it. I have never had any vacuum leak issues with this setup. I have the Ram Air setup.

Would be curious to see what a cast iron manifold temp is with no pan installed.

Does anyone know whats the typical oil temperature in our engines?

1971 M-code Mach 1

Didn't think about checking it there but I'll get it warmed up again and hit the oil pan with the gauge and get a temp.

 

[tony-muscle]

Add to my previous post.

Today I measured the temp of the intake manifold after the car was completely warmed and running for awhile. Mind you the temp here is 30* F now so these readings would be different in the summer. The block temp was 185* F (180 thermostat) and the intake at the carb base was 165* F. I have a large radiator so the coolant temp rarely goes over 185 in the summer anyway. It is an aluminum intake so it probably doesn't retain heat as much as a cast one would and also has the turkey pan installed, not sure why you wouldn't want to use it. I have never had any vacuum leak issues with this setup. I have the Ram Air setup.

Would be curious to see what a cast iron manifold temp is with no pan installed.

Does anyone know whats the typical oil temperature in our engines?

1971 M-code Mach 1

Didn't think about checking it there but I'll get it warmed up again and hit the oil pan with the gauge and get a temp.

I figure that if we know the intake temperature and the oil temperature it should give us an idea if it should "theoretically" warm up the intake or not. Off course, the temperature of the intake would be warmer on the valley side than on the outside and the splashing oil may be a bit colder than the oil sitting in the pan.

Besides this, the ideal situation would be to have someone with the same engine and under the same conditions measure the intake temp with and without the pan. However, this latter idea may be difficult.

 

[barnett468]

Does anyone know whats the typical oil temperature in our engines?

1971 M-code Mach 1

It is relative to your water temp since that cools the block which cools the oil but it should never be over 225 on a hot day.

 

[Ron Tanzi]

I used an Edelbrock 2750 aluminum intake,Holley 600 4160 converted to a 4150 on my 2 barrel heads with Fel Pro printo seal gaskets with the heat crossover passages opened for carburetor heat. I used Permatex black right stuff in place of the supplied cork end seals. I had run the engine with the heat crossover blocked originally(the gaskets delete the passage) and performance suffered even with working air cleaner heat. I decided to reinstate the heat crossover. I ran about 10 k miles and removed the intake and checked the bottom for oil coking. The result was absolutely nothing but silver aluminum.The aluminum does not hold heat like the original cast iron manifold. I do run synthetic oil. Ron