Leaded Gasoline

[jlpoma]

Just a basic questions...I have a 1972 Mustang Hardtop with a 351C 2V (H-code). The engine was unrestored when purchased. Was this engine built for leaded or unleaded gasoline? Some internet sites are using 1971 as the cut-off date, but I remember using lead additive in 1973's. The owner's manual recommends at least 92 octane, but nothing else. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks, Joe

 

[72HCODE]

no you do not need lead for these cars, they were made for regular gas.

 

[cobra3073]

To piggy back on 72HCODE response and provide a bit of amplification, the requirement for lead should not be confused with gasoline octane rating. Lead was originally used primarily to increase the compression ratios in an engine thereby generating more power. As an additional benefit, lead's additives help prevent the erosion of the valve seats.

Generally speaking, you will find that cars with low compression do not need leaded gasoline. For the high compression vehicles that previously required lead, a fix is in order through the addition of harden valve seats and/or octane boosters (to increase octane rating).

I believe 1971 was the last year that the 351C was manufactured with a requirement for leaded gasoline.

Hope this helps.

BT

 

[72fastback]

just get the highest octane gas you get at the pumps should be fine.I have a 1970 or 71 engine with closed chambers and I run it on 92 or 94 octane only.

 

[droptop73]

????? Do not worry about leaded or unleaded - Lead was used as a lubricant in the fuels prior to 1974 - 75 era. Primarily it lubricated the valve seats. When lead was removed for obvious health reasons, the car hobby and the general public were concerned about the long term effects of this move. Several "additives" were introduced to add "lead" and lubricants into the fuel.

Several studies were done showing little valve seat recession actually taking place. It took over 50,000 miles of driving to induce measurable recession. For the amount of driving we actually do in our classic Mustangs It is much ado about nothing IMHO.

Heads did NOT have hardened seats from Ford until '75-76. When I went through the heads on my engine a couple of years ago about 35k miles after the PO had it gone through the seats looked pristine. I did cut the heads and install hardened seats at that time since the equipment and parts were available for my use at the time.

I hope this helps.

To summarize Don't worry about it.

 

[MaddMike]

To put a twist on this topic. I also have a '71 351C H code. My question is not whether or not it was a leaded only gas machine. But rather, more and more crappy ethanol is being added to gas. I have read the stuff is hard on engines and can burn holes thru pistons. I talked to someone who said the lead substitutes help alleviate the negative effects of Ethanol. Anyone have thoughts about this. Additionally, Ethanol is now giving way to ETBE (ethyl tertiary butyl ether) which is said to be less damaging than Ethanol. There seem to be a lot of opinions but nothing clear to follow

 

[Stanglover]

Just my thought on friggin Ethanol.
How to water down gasoline so oil companies can get more gasoline from the same barrel of oil and therefore expand their profits. Oh, and don't forget, oil companies and the media forget to tell people about all the other products that come off the same barrel of oil before they get to gasoline. Gasoline was once thought of as a byproduct and dumped was it not?
In Canada, our wonderful idiot Prime Minister has mandated that ALL gasoline contain 10% Ethanol, meaning the only remaining source of non-ethanol 91 octane, Shell, is forced to add 10% of that crap to the best gas we've got. Petro-Can does have 94 octane, but since they took over Sunoco, they watered it down as soon as they could. I do not and will not buy from Petro-Can.
It's a crying shame.
If there is a better alternative in the "pipeline", maybe that'll be for the good.
This is just my thoughts, you agree or disagree, so let's leave it at that.

 

[MaddMike]

Just my thought on friggin Ethanol.
How to water down gasoline so oil companies can get more gasoline from the same barrel of oil and therefore expand their profits. Oh, and don't forget, oil companies and the media forget to tell people about all the other products that come off the same barrel of oil before they get to gasoline. Gasoline was once thought of as a byproduct and dumped was it not?
In Canada, our wonderful idiot Prime Minister has mandated that ALL gasoline contain 10% Ethanol, meaning the only remaining source of non-ethanol 91 octane, Shell, is forced to add 10% of that crap to the best gas we've got. Petro-Can does have 94 octane, but since they took over Sunoco, they watered it down as soon as they could. I do not and will not buy from Petro-Can.
It's a crying shame.
If there is a better alternative in the "pipeline", maybe that'll be for the good.
This is just my thoughts, you agree or disagree, so let's leave it at that.

Here in Europe and fortunately the Czech Republic where I am - they still have real gasoline but it is expensive and not all station locations have it. They all have a little something in them but not more than 5% in the better gas. That said, there are 4 brands with 98-100 Octane. However, it costs about 45 CZK per liter which translates to $8.00 per (US) gallon. Glad my Mach 1 isn't a daily driver - from empty, it costs $150 to fill'er up and we know what kind of mileage we get in cars that originally drank .25 cent per gallon gas.

MOL Evo 100 Plus

OMV – MaxxMotion 100

Shell – V-Power Racing 100

Orlen / Benzina – Verva 100

 

[Stanglover]

Here in Europe and fortunately the Czech Republic where I am - they still have real gasoline but it is expensive and not all station locations have it. They all have a little something in them but not more than 5% in the better gas. That said, there are 4 brands with 98-100 Octane. However, it costs about 45 CZK per liter which translates to $8.00 per (US) gallon. Glad my Mach 1 isn't a daily driver - from empty, it costs $150 to fill'er up and we know what kind of mileage we get in cars that originally drank .25 cent per gallon gas.

MOL Evo 100 Plus

OMV – MaxxMotion 100

Shell – V-Power Racing 100

Orlen / Benzina – Verva 100

Hi Mike, I didn't know you were in Europe. I think European octane rating are different to the US and Canada, not totally sure about that, but coming from the UK, that is what I was told. Gas in the UK is very expensive too. When last there in January, a liter of gas was nearly double what I pay in Canada.
Back in the early 70's, a gallon of 101 octane Shell was 5 shillings, or about .75 cents US (3 dollars to the pound), but gas in the US was as you said , 25 cents.

 

[NOT A T5]

Hi Mike, I thought you were Military, don't you get stamps for gas?

 

[Vicus]

Mike,
as Geoff has already mentioned, do not mix up the octane rating in Europe and the US. Europe displays in RON while the US shows AKI. AKI is lower than RON when indexing the same type of gas.
For further details check Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
Cheers Frank

 

[Vicus]

Here in Europe and fortunately the Czech Republic where I am - they still have real gasoline but it is expensive and not all station locations have it. They all have a little something in them but not more than 5% in the better gas. That said, there are 4 brands with 98-100 Octane. However, it costs about 45 CZK per liter which translates to $8.00 per (US) gallon. Glad my Mach 1 isn't a daily driver - from empty, it costs $150 to fill'er up and we know what kind of mileage we get in cars that originally drank .25 cent per gallon gas.

MOL Evo 100 Plus

OMV – MaxxMotion 100

Shell – V-Power Racing 100

Orlen / Benzina – Verva 100

Mike,
I can top these numbers in Germany.
In our country, a fuel grade with 102 RON is available at every major ARAL service station. But it costs a small fortune.
Current price is €2.239 per liter, which equates to about US$9.20 per gallon.
Cheers Frank

 

[Vicus]

However, I have a completely different question in this context.

When I overhauled my engine few years ago, I wanted to have hardened valve seats installed in the original cylinder heads. I went to several motor shops and none were willing to take the risk of installing the hardened valve seats on the Cleveland heads, even if I only wanted them on the exhaust side. Everyone told me that because of the special way the valves are arranged, the land between the intake and exhaust valves is too small to ensure a permanently secure fit for the new valve seat. Everyone advised me to get new aluminum heads.

How is this problem solved by motor shops in the USA? Or do they not see it as a major problem and take the risk?

Frank

 

[Stanglover]

I'm pretty sure mine were fitted with hardened exhaust valve seats and 1 piece valves. That was back in 2012, my receipt does not show that in detail though.

 

[c9zx]

Just a basic questions...I have a 1972 Mustang Hardtop with a 351C 2V (H-code). The engine was unrestored when purchased. Was this engine built for leaded or unleaded gasoline? Some internet sites are using 1971 as the cut-off date, but I remember using lead additive in 1973's. The owner's manual recommends at least 92 octane, but nothing else. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks, Joe

https://7173mustangs.com/members/c9zx.106/

 

[Don C]

However, I have a completely different question in this context.

When I overhauled my engine few years ago, I wanted to have hardened valve seats installed in the original cylinder heads. I went to several motor shops and none were willing to take the risk of installing the hardened valve seats on the Cleveland heads, even if I only wanted them on the exhaust side. Everyone told me that because of the special way the valves are arranged, the land between the intake and exhaust valves is too small to ensure a permanently secure fit for the new valve seat. Everyone advised me to get new aluminum heads.

How is this problem solved by motor shops in the USA? Or do they not see it as a major problem and take the risk?

Frank

I had them installed in my M code heads 20 years ago with no issues. I'm working on a 408 stroker now and will be using Q code heads and my machinist recommends the hardened seats.

 

[roboconklin]

To put a twist on this topic. I also have a '71 351C H code. My question is not whether or not it was a leaded only gas machine. But rather, more and more crappy ethanol is being added to gas. I have read the stuff is hard on engines and can burn holes thru pistons. I talked to someone who said the lead substitutes help alleviate the negative effects of Ethanol. Anyone have thoughts about this. Additionally, Ethanol is now giving way to ETBE (ethyl tertiary butyl ether) which is said to be less damaging than Ethanol. There seem to be a lot of opinions but nothing clear to follow

It eats metal carburetors and metal tanks and fuel lines. That’s one of the reasons tanks,fuel pumps lines and injectors are plastic now. Better for profit too

 

[MaddMike]

Hi Mike, I thought you were Military, don't you get stamps for gas?

Nope, I'm former serving paratrooper - I jumped from Hi-performance aircraft for Ronald Reagan for 'bout 10 years (got two metal knees to prove it, ha ha). But we never got stamps for gas - just cheaper prices on Ft Bragg & Ft Lewis back in the day at the base PX stations.