Looking for 351 Cooling Improvements.

[Stanglover]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for this tip, it's a really interesting trick and one I can easily try.

One question though, does this not essentially do the same thing as running one of the aftermarket block off plates in place of the OEM restrictor plate? If the tube that's inserted into the OEM restrictor plate is bottomed out on the block as you described, then coolant cannot flow up through it at any point regardless of the t-stat position, right?

I was wondering the same thing. I get that effectively raising the opening in the plate might allow better contact with stat and would better block off the flows when needed, but having the tube bottom out on the casting effectively blocks it of completely. That's how my mind sees it. I would have to see that in a drawing to fully understand the logic.
If it is the case that the protruding 1/4" or so is the main factor, then would removing the brass plate and soldering a 1/4" or so piece of brass tube to the top side, then reinserting the plate do the same thing? Again, with out seeing it drawn up, that is speculation.
As said, I get the idea in principle, I'm just not sure about the logic.

 

[Paul of MO]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for this tip, it's a really interesting trick and one I can easily try.

One question though, does this not essentially do the same thing as running one of the aftermarket block off plates in place of the OEM restrictor plate? If the tube that's inserted into the OEM restrictor plate is bottomed out on the block as you described, then coolant cannot flow up through it at any point regardless of the t-stat position, right?

The hollow tube does not sit flat against the block under the brass bypass. The block surface is slanted at that point and only one edge of the tube actually rest on it.

Plenty of open space to flow throughout

 

[Paul of MO]

I was wondering the same thing. I get that effectively raising the opening in the plate might allow better contact with stat and would better block off the flows when needed, but having the tube bottom out on the casting effectively blocks it of completely. That's how my mind sees it. I would have to see that in a drawing to fully understand the logic.
If it is the case that the protruding 1/4" or so is the main factor, then would removing the brass plate and soldering a 1/4" or so piece of brass tube to the top side, then reinserting the plate do the same thing? Again, with out seeing it drawn up, that is speculation.
As said, I get the idea in principle, I'm just not sure about the logic.

That would absolutely work as well. Getting the restrictor out can be a pain.

The "tube mod" is about as easy to do as it gets.

As stated the tube does not sit flush against block and does let considerable coolant past.

 

[tony-muscle]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for this tip, it's a really interesting trick and one I can easily try.

One question though, does this not essentially do the same thing as running one of the aftermarket block off plates in place of the OEM restrictor plate? If the tube that's inserted into the OEM restrictor plate is bottomed out on the block as you described, then coolant cannot flow up through it at any point regardless of the t-stat position, right?

I wonder if the bottom of the block there is not flat so if it is at an angle it won't block it off completely. I haven't paid attention to it before so I don't know.

 

[Stanglover]

That would absolutely work as well. Getting the restrictor out can be a pain.

The "tube mod" is about as easy to do as it gets.

As stated the tube does not sit flush against block and does let considerable coolant past.

I guess we all were assuming (there's that word again) the tube was in full contact with the casting thus blocking it off completely. Thanks for clarifying that.

 

[Stanglover]

I wonder if the bottom of the block there is not flat so if it is at an angle it won't block it off completely. I haven't paid attention to it before so I don't know.

One could always cut the tube at an angle.

 

[Bobby]

I thought I'd also add, that many times when overheating problem cars came into the shop, amongst all of the various things members have mentioned here, what we would always check as just part of the inspection, was to test the customer's radiator cap. The caps very often don't hold pressure as they should, even when new, which will allow coolant to boil. The protocall was to check the cap separately, and entire cooling system for pressure checking, was to pressurize to 15 pounds and must hold for 15 minutes. We did this whenever we did a water pump, t-stat, radiator hoses, anytime we disrupted the cooling system, it got the 15/15 test .

Agreed! Many years ago, I was trying to keep my poor 1975 Ford Granada running. I was in line at Chief Auto Parts waiting to exchange the third carburetor under warranty. I was listening in on a conversation a couple of guys were having about ones early 80s Mustang that was continuously overheating. They replaced the head gaskets, radiator,water pump etc. The last thing they did was replace the radiator cap. That solved the problem! All that expense and effort for one $5 part. I used that knowledge about 10 years later when my friend’s 94 F150 was overheating. I told him to replace the radiator cap first and foremost. That instantly solved his problem. I always replace the radiator cap after 50K miles or 5 years. No more lessons learned with that!

 

[tony-muscle]

Reading about radiator caps, I just replaced mine with one of those that have an anode hanging from it.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/SDK-C5ZZ8100RCE

 

[Bobby]

Reading about radiator caps, I just replaced mine with one of those that have an anode hanging from it.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/SDK-C5ZZ8100RCE

I've never seen any corrosion due to the radiator cap no matter how many miles. Maybe for bare aluminum radiators? Very strange looking...

 

[Bobby]

I have a good friend who has a highly modified Camaro, ran into the same scenario, put in a new modern aluminum radiator ( he told me he bought it 'cause it looked so hi-tech), however didn't cool any better, actually ran hotter, so he put the heavy duty original back in and temps came back down. He also got rid of the electric fans he had installed. I probably would have as well. Sometimes electric fans become just another wiring complication, can be noisy, and to me, fans in front of the radiator, where they're seen through the grille, take away from a clean looking front view, but, some like the look.

I installed two puller fans with shroud and two pusher fans. Four fans and still wouldnt cool. Those 3 and 4 core radiators are just a gimick.

 

[rcadd1ct]

Have you checked your spark timing at idle?

That might cause issues if it is to far off, too.

 

[Stanglover]

Have you checked your spark timing at idle?

That might cause issues if it is to far off, too.

That was what I was thinking too.
Maybe another reason why I like the factory distributor with a PII, but rebuilt and recurved to 34-36 deg. max all in at 3k. currently set at 16 deg. initial. No overheating that would cause concern even like last weekend waiting to get into a show on a hot day. It only reached just over 200f with a 190 stat.

 

[boilermaster]

Ok,
I am seeing a pattern here,
aluminum radiators. both 3 and 4 core probably do not flow as well as thier OEM counterparts and who is still running OEM timing with 1971-73 fuel ?
We change the base, curve and total timing because the lead and octane are no longer there, how can we expect what goes on in the combustion process (and therefore the thermal dynamics) to be the same as it was back in the day ?
I am personally volunteering to take my 1971 fb back in time to investigate this phonomime, I will report back if and when I get back.
Don't know how much 1971 fuel, I can bring back, so I am filling my tank first.
Boilermaster

 

[Cleveland Crush]

Ok,
I am seeing a pattern here,
aluminum radiators. both 3 and 4 core probably do not flow as well as thier OEM counterparts and who is still running OEM timing with 1971-73 fuel ?
We change the base, curve and total timing because the lead and octane are no longer there, how can we expect what goes on in the combustion process (and therefore the thermal dynamics) to be the same as it was back in the day ?
I am personally volunteering to take my 1971 fb back in time to investigate this phonomime, I will report back if and when I get back.
Don't know how much 1971 fuel, I can bring back, so I am filling my tank first.
Boilermaster

Sounds kinda like "Back to the Future" only with a 71 Stang instead of a DeLorean

 

[detritusmaximus]

Ok,
I am seeing a pattern here,
aluminum radiators. both 3 and 4 core probably do not flow as well as thier OEM counterparts and who is still running OEM timing with 1971-73 fuel ?
We change the base, curve and total timing because the lead and octane are no longer there, how can we expect what goes on in the combustion process (and therefore the thermal dynamics) to be the same as it was back in the day ?
I am personally volunteering to take my 1971 fb back in time to investigate this phonomime, I will report back if and when I get back.
Don't know how much 1971 fuel, I can bring back, so I am filling my tank first.
Boilermaster

Just remember to get all pre-71 cash when you do. If you get caught with real money with later dates, you might be returning to the future one day at a time for the first 15-20 years. Maybe sooner with good behavior!

 

[Bobby]

Ok,
I am seeing a pattern here,
aluminum radiators. both 3 and 4 core probably do not flow as well as thier OEM counterparts and who is still running OEM timing with 1971-73 fuel ?
We change the base, curve and total timing because the lead and octane are no longer there, how can we expect what goes on in the combustion process (and therefore the thermal dynamics) to be the same as it was back in the day ?
I am personally volunteering to take my 1971 fb back in time to investigate this phonomime, I will report back if and when I get back.
Don't know how much 1971 fuel, I can bring back, so I am filling my tank first.
Boilermaster

Are you sure you’d want to come back at all?

 

[Hemikiller]

Copper/brass radiators are making a comeback. I see that NPD now has not only US Radiator ($$$) but now Thermal Solutions, who makes their copper/brass heater cores. $550 is a lot easier to handle than the $900 US Radiator option.

https://www.npdlink.com/product/rad...adiator&top_parent=200001&year=1971&year=1971

 

[tony-muscle]

If I had $500 laying around I would get one for an Apple to Apple comparison.