Machine shop cost

[not2old]

Got call back from machine shop, and his price seems too high for me. $3800. to test engine, replace crank, cam, 1 rod expand pistons and assemble long block. My question, can I with help frrom 2 other novice engine overhaulers rebuild my cleveland on our own. Between to three of us, we've rebuild 6 engines. Plan is alittle past stock. Gee I told the builder a creat motor is about the same price. Whats your take on doing it myself:huh: Just a weekend cruiser

 

[72HCODE]

a total overhaul on my Cleveland with dyno cost me over 5000$ i think the final price was about 5100$, i was quoted 3800$ to start the rebuild.

i can find my receipt and lay out what the guy charged me however it may not be accurate because i fought with the guy after the fact for the receipt for the work he did.

regardless of how crazy people think it was to pay that. My situation just lent itself to it.

The only reason i pushed forward with it was it turned out my block was matching numbers.

Had i pulled the engine and discovered it was a replacement block, i would of dropped 2500$ on a 351w Crate engine and called it a day. I went back and forth on the decision so many times. In the end the Vin matched and i wanted a Cleveland under the hood.

what really started to jack the price up from the quote was the cylinder wall damage and finding a lot of things done incorrectly.

originally when i pulled the engine i was hoping the problem was just on the top end i figured just have the heads redone for under 2000$ and i will be good to go.

then i get the news that the bearings are shot, the crank needed to be turned, the engine was .30 over done wrong, might have to go .60 over, the engine needed to be planed things were warped. This engine was lucky to make 10HG vacuum when i had it running at the best of times. so my under 2000$ dreams became a 3800$ to start rebuild, as more problems came up it jumped to a 4800$ estimate. the time line went from 4 weeks to 6 months also. then i got the final bill for around 5100$ and man was i pissed.

In retrospect i should NOT of used my builder, he was the friend of a friend, had no written all over it. i had issues with the engine after i got it back it took me another 6 months to fix it myself since my verbal warranty on the work done turned into sit and spin.

make sure the guy is willing to put it all in writing. make sure you get a completion date in writing. get quotes from different people.

I didn't do it that way because i felt i was in a friend's hands, fool me once shame on me.

For my area of the country $3800 is low. after my little adventure i asked around some other places and got quotes more in the 4500 range that made more sense.

This is why a lot of guys try to rebuild the engine themselves and save about 2000$.

my advice take the quote he gave you, and go get at least 3 other quotes from different shops, ask them about dynoing the motor, ask them about warranty , ask them if they put it all in writing. then ask around the car community about their reputation.

my guy was suppose to be one of the best his name always came back as good, but the red flags were there, he was hard up for money and had a whole month with no work lined up and could take me right away, translation "he was a drunk, got heavy in the bottle again and let his work slide until he couldn't afford to make a house payment"

the best was 1 year later while i was still fixing his lack luster engine work he calls me and tells me he has 3 Clevelands on his shelf that customers refused to pay for and he asked me if i wanted to buy one from him and he would rebuild it, i hung up.

 

[cobra3073]

For the work you have cited, that sounds like a bit much. Not sure what the machine shop person is speaking of when he says, test the engine. That could be any number of things and does that mean that he will "fix" anything else? Of course, prices vary around the country.

72HCODE provides some very good inputs on the subject. Most machine shops (at least here in the South) has a "price list" for the services they provide. If you are in a large enough "pool", you might want to call around to gather information on what others are charging. Also, don't hesitate to contact your local BBB to check on the reputation of anyone you are considering using.

Finally, I hesitate to say it but it is becoming less and less a fiscally conservative option to rebuild ones own motor. Crate motors are generally a lot cheaper unless you are doing something really, really special.

Yes, you and your friends could probably put the motor together but there will still be some possible machining necessary, like the knurling of the pistons.

Hope this helps.

BT

 

[OMS]

Not sure of your plans but I have a fresh 71 351 C 4 V, closed chamber head M code motor.

Came with a project car. Was sitting in the car in the corner of the shop for about 3 years, motor still wrapped in plastic from the engine shop. I just pulled it out, as I have sold the body.

Email me if you are interested

Don

[email protected]

 

[72HCODE]

dame you don, i'm so tempted

lol

 

[72fastback]

Consider your self lucky mine cost me over 8000 but everything was done the engine is blueprinted.I needed valves,pistons,piston rods.Had the heads machined for roller rockers.The engine was balanced and on and on and on.But I don't regret it.If you build it yourself you have to be really sure when you break in the engine to do it right because a camshaft can turn sour pretty quick.Use the right break in oil.And depending on how big of a cam you get sometimes you have to break it in without the inner valve springs.For me personally I wanted the peace of mind that the engine had a guarantee.So if anything goes wrong during the break in on the dyno {hopefully your machine shop has an engine dyno to do the break in.}they are responsible not me.

 

[72HCODE]

that was one area i saved money, i wanted roller rockers and my builder said no way too expensive even for him, so i went flat tappet.

i imagine that would of tacked 3000$ more in machine work and parts.

 

[72Mike]

Sounds like you and your friends have the experience and tools to handle it - I'd assemble it yourself. Find a good machine shop to assist with preparation of the block and heads and have at it. Like many, I've had some experience with builders who are good and builders who are hacks. If you can't find or afford a builder with a verifiable reputation, I think your best assurance is to do it yourself, so you know exactly what's in it and how it was done.

Mark

 

[not2old]

Sounds like you and your friends have the experience and tools to handle it - I'd assemble it yourself. Find a good machine shop to assist with preparation of the block and heads and have at it. Like many, I've had some experience with builders who are good and builders who are hacks. If you can't find or afford a builder with a verifiable reputation, I think your best assurance is to do it yourself, so you know exactly what's in it and how it was done.

Mark

Thanks Mark for the feedback. I just got back from buying an engine stand and new torque wrench.

 

[jorgem2]

I would say do it your self, there is enough info on the net to guide you thru it. Engine rebuilding is a lot easier than many other things, like rebuilding an Electronic auto tranny. Plus its fun, just triple check everything before assembly.

The price will probably come out a little less but not by much but it will be a rewarding experience when you first fire it up.

Again triple check everythig, a mistake here could ruin the motor and your wallet.

 

[c9zx]

A lot depends on what condition the engine is in now and what your realistic goals are for the engine and the car. Your goals will play a large role in final cost. It is very important to find a machine shop that has a reputation for doing high quality work. Use that shop for all machine work. That way if something goes wrong you won't have 2 or 3 people pointing at each other saying "it is his fault". Machine shops are like any other business. If you are VERY careful, you get what you pay for. It is next to impossible to estimate total cost until the engine is disassembled and inspected. Has it ever been bored? If it has been bored .030, sonic check the block before you go any farther (I'm assuming 351C engine). If it is going to be bored, ask the machine shop to use a "deck plate" if they have one for your engine. This simulates the heads being in place and the distortion caused by the bolts being torqued. Also, if they have the torque plates it is almost a certainty they are familiar with the engine and it's "quirks". These are thin wall castings and some had significant core shift. Some will go .040 over bore and some will not. The heads can be a high cost item to refurbish. The multi-groove valves are notorious for breaking and destroying the engine. If you can afford it, replace them with single groove, non-rotating valves. Hardened exhaust valve seats are a must for long term use of unleaded fuel. Oiling can be an issue depending on RPM and use of the engine. If you can afford it, and stock appearance is not required, buy an increased capacity oil pan. Wow! I've gotten carried away. If I can assist through email please feel free.

Chuck

[email protected]

 

[coilwire]

Ihad my 351C machined .030 over, crank polished, and balanced for $600. The heads were another $700. I did all the assembly myself and with rings and bearings it all came to about $1,800. I am lucky that the guy that does my machine is an old dragracer and knows what he is doing. Took awhile to find someone to trust. Got stuck with someone like you had once.[/align]

 

[mitymustang]

listen after reading all of this im glad i live where i do, iv built severl motors for around $3000, this includes forged pistons, rods crank being turned, new heads being rebuilt with feirera ss valves, comp cam, springs, rings, bearings, gaskets, even the machine work on block and heads for 3 angle valve job, roller rocker setup, with of coarse me putting it all together, im fortunate to have built a engine crank stand to break them in before installing in the car. theres nothing worse than to do as we did once and install a motor in a car and 3 lifters decided to not want to rotate and wipe the cam out during breakin, i cried. but lesson learned and take your time and follow all specs and torques. the manual will not leed you wrong but be careful with someone saying they they know more than the manual.just sayin iv met many of them down here.... i love to build them and theres no better satisfaction than to say i built that and doing with your friends and family................which ever way you go good luck...