Manifold hits distributor

[jpaz]

It may be how high the intake sit. Are you using a thick gasket instead of the turkey pan. Mine, the block is zero decked, so some needed to be removed from the BT for better port alignment. I always use the pan type gasket. The snap tad on the back side has never been a real problem. A screw driver snaps it on and off.

I didn’t assemble the engine but I don’t think they used a turkey pan. I guess it could be setting a bit high but I don’t think it is. I had this issue before I had my engine rebuilt. Was always up against the intake and the clip would never seat all the way down.

 

[jpaz]

I just went through some pics of my engine before I had it rebuilt. It does look like I had the distributor stabbed one tooth counter clockwise. In the pic the canister is not even close to hitting the rad hose like it is now. I know that the hold tab in the back was a real pain to undo, but not like it is now. I didn’t think I had room for the vacuum canister to fit because of the a/c but looks like I was wrong. I will restab the distributor and see how it fits. Might have to loosen up the a/c to do it. This pic was from when I freshened up the paint on the engine and brackets. 

 

[Stanglover]

That looks to be about where mine was until the last time I re-set it. Now it is a bit more toward the hose, but then I don't need to worry about clearance either way. 

 Obviously you know this, but set your distributor at TDC on #1 and mark the block or manifold so you know it's back where it should be just to be safe.

Little things can be a real PITA.

Geoff.

 

[jpaz]

Yes thanks Geoff, I will. I have done this before. But right now I’m replacing my spark plug wires. I put my timing light on them found a couple of them to be bad. Hopefully that’s what is going on with it.

 

[Stanglover]

Yes thanks Geoff, I will. I have done this before. But right now I’m replacing my spark plug wires. I put my timing light on them found a couple of them to be bad. Hopefully that’s what is going on with it.

 John, I was pretty sure you had done this before, but it's amazing how easy it is to forget the simplest things, done it so many times. Didn't mean to be condescending.

 So you found a couple of bad wires also eh! Simplest things.

 

[jpaz]

Oh no offense taken or anything, I’m the one who doesn’t remember that I had this distributor in a different spot. I started this thread before really looking at what I had already done. I kinda feel like a dumb ass, but not the first time for that for sure! Lol

Ya I hope that is what has been causing my problems. Have had a few different issues show up at once. Cracks in the distributor cap, bad plug wires, my distributor moved and advanced the timing, my carb wasn’t set up right and I found that the vacuum hose to the transmission was off. Jeez, I hope that’s it. I need a beer!

 

[Stanglover]

Oh no offense taken or anything, I’m the one who doesn’t remember that I had this distributor in a different spot. I started this thread before really looking at what I had already done. I kinda feel like a dumb ass, but not the first time for that for sure! Lol

Ya I hope that is what has been causing my problems. Have had a few different issues show up at once. Cracks in the distributor cap, bad plug wires, my distributor moved and advanced the timing, my carb wasn’t set up right and I found that the vacuum hose to the transmission was off. Jeez, I hope that’s it. I need a beer!

 I hear you brother! Been there, done that. You're not a dumb-ass, you're just human and probably like me, an aging one..... who forgets way too much "stuff" these days.

Took me for ever to really find out wtf was going on with my motor. All stupid little things that add up to major frustration. Once you get it sorted, you'll be amazed how well it runs.

All the best,

Geoff

 

[jpaz]

Ok so I restabed the distributor and put new plug wires on. Still not running right. Missing on a couple of cylinders. I know that the distributor is in correct, not off a tooth. Firing order is correct also. I triple checked everything but it is running about the same, just not firing on all 8. Everything looked good in the dizzy, gear looked fine and so did the cam gear. Nothing out of the ordinary. At least now I can remove the distributor cap easily again.

I will pull the valve covers off tomorrow, not sure what else it could be now except for something in the valve train. Hopefully it’s just a poly lock that came loose. Everything is brand new so I’m getting pretty damn aggravated that it wasn’t something simple. 

 

[Don C]

Did you pull the spark plugs? You should be able to see which ones aren't firing, and then switch them to other cylinders to see if the problem moves with the plugs or if you have dead cylinders. Measure the resistance of the plug wires to the non-firing plugs, compression test next. You might have cylinders where the valves either don't open or don't close all the way.

 

[jpaz]

Did you pull the spark plugs? You should be able to see which ones aren't firing, and then switch them to other cylinders to see if the problem moves with the plugs or if you have dead cylinders. Measure the resistance of the plug wires to the non-firing plugs, compression test next. You might have cylinders where the valves either don't open or don't close all the way.

I did but I had quite a few that were fouled out from running it with a vacuum leak that I didn’t know about. I need to get some new plugs. I thought I heard a ticking sound today from the drivers side. That’s the side I found some dead plug wires. I have that valve cover ready to come off tomorrow, got to tired and aggravated tonight. I don’t have a compression tester, so it s easy to do a visual check under the cover.

 I did notice that the pertronix module has a wear mark on it. Like a bit of a indentation where the magnet spins around. Cloud that go bad? I always thought that they either work or they don’t. Can the modules wear out?

 

[NOT A T5]

My Pertronix 1 went bad after about 25 years so yes, they do go bad!

 

[jpaz]

My Pertronix 1 went bad after about 25 years so yes, they do go bad!

Did it just stop working or was it intermittent?

 

[Stanglover]

What Pertronix module do you have? If it's a P III get rid of it and install a P II.

 However, about 3 1/2 years ago, when the P III I had was sent back to Pertronix because the stupid plastic bearing they chose to use between the plates, was so loose the module was hitting the cam and the air gap was all over the place, Pertronix sent me a replacement P II and coil, without admitting to the design fault. At that time I had ordered a P II from a local supplier so now I had two. I decided to keep the other as a spare and put it on the shelf. When I was having my "issues" recently, I had installed the spare P II only to find the car would not start. I reinstalled the old one and it started right up. Reinstalled the spare and again nothing. Conclusion was it was bad from the unopened box. Unfortunately, Pertronix said it was "out of the 3 year warranty", so I was out of luck, but they did offer me a "deal" on one, but I have not taken them up on it yet. 

So yes they do go bad, even new right out of the box.

What plugs are you using? I have found Autolite 25's run well in mine. 24's always looked a bit on the dark side of brown to me, whereas the 25's are a mid tan color and the motor seems to like them, pulls like a train! Timing is at 14 initial, 34 all in at 3000rpm mechanical plus 4-6 * vacuum.

Can't wait to learn you got it sorted.

Geoff

 

[jpaz]

What Pertronix module do you have? If it's a P III get rid of it and install a P II.

 However, about 3 1/2 years ago, when the P III I had was sent back to Pertronix because the stupid plastic bearing they chose to use between the plates, was so loose the module was hitting the cam and the air gap was all over the place, Pertronix sent me a replacement P II and coil, without admitting to the design fault. At that time I had ordered a P II from a local supplier so now I had two. I decided to keep the other as a spare and put it on the shelf. When I was having my "issues" recently, I had installed the spare P II only to find the car would not start. I reinstalled the old one and it started right up. Reinstalled the spare and again nothing. Conclusion was it was bad from the unopened box. Unfortunately, Pertronix said it was "out of the 3 year warranty", so I was out of luck, but they did offer me a "deal" on one, but I have not taken them up on it yet. 

So yes they do go bad, even new right out of the box.

What plugs are you using? I have found Autolite 25's run well in mine. 24's always looked a bit on the dark side of brown to me, whereas the 25's are a mid tan color and the motor seems to like them, pulls like a train! Timing is at 14 initial, 34 all in at 3000rpm mechanical plus 4-6 * vacuum.

Can't wait to learn you got it sorted.

Geoff

I have the P1 and I have been running the autolite 25’s too. Timing was @ 15 initial and my engine was running great, till now.

 

[Don C]

If you have a wear mark on it, it may not be adjusted correctly, or the swivel bushing on the breaker plate may be worn out, either of which could cause an intermittent problem. I was working on a '66 F250 years ago (I took it on trade for installing a Chevy 283 into a Land Cruiser for the neighbor's son) and it took me a while to find the worn bushing on the breaker plate. Every time the vacuum changed it would stumble, because the point gap would change.

 

[jpaz]

If you have a wear mark on it, it may not be adjusted correctly, or the swivel bushing on the breaker plate may be worn out, either of which could cause an intermittent problem. I was working on a '66 F250 years ago (I took it on trade for installing a Chevy 283 into a Land Cruiser for the neighbor's son) and it took me a while to find the worn bushing on the breaker plate. Every time the vacuum changed it would stumble, because the point gap would change.

This is kinda what I seems like and the swivel plate does seem like it may be worn out. There seems to be quite a bit of play in it. Maybe this is my problem, but it’s doing it when the engine is just idling. 

I checked the instructions for the p1 and it says there’s no adjustment. I’m not quite sure how old it is, it was in the car when I bought it in 2014. As far as I know it’s got about 12-13k miles on it. I did have my engine completely rebuilt earlier this year, but used all the same ignition stuff except for a new coil.

 

[Don C]

Going by memory, it's been a while since I installed one, but I thought there was a gap adjustment between the wheel and the module.

EDIT: One other thing, does it have the ground wire between the breaker plate and distributor body?

EDIT 2: If the gap is set correctly, when the engine starts and the vacuum advance receives vacuum the breaker plate moves and the gap may change if the pivot bushing is worn.

 

[Stanglover]

Going by memory, it's been a while since I installed one, but I thought there was a gap adjustment between the wheel and the module.

EDIT: One other thing, does it have the ground wire between the breaker plate and distributor body?

EDIT 2: If the gap is set correctly, when the engine starts and the vacuum advance receives vacuum the breaker plate moves and the gap may change if the pivot bushing is worn.

 Good point on the ground strap Don. .030" is the air gap. Breaker plate moving around was the exact problem with the P III, so I would agree with you that if the bushing thingy on the factory breaker plate is worn, then you'll get bad ignition for sure imo.

 

[Stanglover]

What Pertronix module do you have? If it's a P III get rid of it and install a P II.

 However, about 3 1/2 years ago, when the P III I had was sent back to Pertronix because the stupid plastic bearing they chose to use between the plates, was so loose the module was hitting the cam and the air gap was all over the place, Pertronix sent me a replacement P II and coil, without admitting to the design fault. At that time I had ordered a P II from a local supplier so now I had two. I decided to keep the other as a spare and put it on the shelf. When I was having my "issues" recently, I had installed the spare P II only to find the car would not start. I reinstalled the old one and it started right up. Reinstalled the spare and again nothing. Conclusion was it was bad from the unopened box. Unfortunately, Pertronix said it was "out of the 3 year warranty", so I was out of luck, but they did offer me a "deal" on one, but I have not taken them up on it yet. 

So yes they do go bad, even new right out of the box.

What plugs are you using? I have found Autolite 25's run well in mine. 24's always looked a bit on the dark side of brown to me, whereas the 25's are a mid tan color and the motor seems to like them, pulls like a train! Timing is at 14 initial, 34 all in at 3000rpm mechanical plus 4-6 * vacuum.

Can't wait to learn you got it sorted.

Geoff

I have the P1 and I have been running the autolite 25’s too. Timing was @ 15 initial and my engine was running great, till now.

 Ok, I see. At least our motors should be pretty close to being equal in that regard. I liked what Don said.

 

[jpaz]

Going by memory, it's been a while since I installed one, but I thought there was a gap adjustment between the wheel and the module.

EDIT: One other thing, does it have the ground wire between the breaker plate and distributor body?

EDIT 2: If the gap is set correctly, when the engine starts and the vacuum advance receives vacuum the breaker plate moves and the gap may change if the pivot bushing is worn.

No, the ground is on top of the plate. 

Like I said, I looked up the install instructions and they say there’s no adjustment. Which I don’t understand because as you can see in the picture the there’s a slot where you tighten it to the distributor.

Edit: I just saw some other instructions for the p1 and it does say to set the air gap at .030. It did also say some are fixed and there’s no adjustment. I think mine is the adjustable one? I’m going to see if I can get it to adjust since it looks like it should.