Melted wire (pics included) DBElectrical mini-starter

[rutkak]

Gurus,

Any idea what would cause my 12V starter wire to melt? I had it zip-tied to the negative starter cable and every spot where it was touching it is melted and had exposed wires. The negative starter cable is untouched.

Background: This is a DBElectrical mini-high torque starter that I've had in my 72 coupe for 2 or 3 months. I noticed in the last 2 or 3 times on the road it was not starting as quick as normal...typically when I stopped briefly and it didn't cool down. I figured I had carburetor drama but it wasn't until I inspected the cable that I saw it was tore up.

I had since installed a 6 gauge wire in it's place (yes, 6 gauge) just in case the electrical gremlims are having a field day. No other wires on my solenoid are bad (coil, electric fan, etc).

Any ideas what could have caused this mess? I'm pretty confident all the grounds in my car are good to go.

-KR

 

[Don65Stang]

Uh oh. I bought a DB mini starter too but haven't installed yet.

So that's a 6ga in the pics that melted?

 

[rutkak]

Don,

The cable that is melted in the pictures is either a 12 or 10 gauge cable and it comes with the mini-starter. It's definitely not very heavy duty. I went to Lowe's and got the 6 gauge cable (thick) and autozone to get the eyelet ends for it. I would have preferred an 8 gauge cable, but Lowe's didn't have any and I thought 10 gauge was about what I had melted already.

Not sure why it melted. The only thing out of the ordinary on my car is a 100 amp single wire alternator, electric fan and Pertronix III ignitor in a standard dizzy.

Ken

 

[caspianwendell]

Cable was sized too small for the amps of the starter I would say and perhaps your timing is advanced too much creating more load than normal?

 

[slobin3d]

I'd agree that wire looks far too small. and as far as it being bare where the zip ties were, thats just because of the extra tension on the wire from the ties and not related to the wires failure.

 

[marks73]

Rule of thumb. 14ga-15 amps, 12ga-20amps, 10ga-30amps, 8ga-45amps, anyway you need a 2ga from battery negative to frame and the same from positve to solenoid and solenoid to starter.

Those pictures also demonstrate a very good likeness of why you never put the positive on the battery until you test for shorts. That's what your shorted wires will look like.

 

[Totalled]

Was that the main feed wire or the solenoid trigger wire? If it was the solenoid wire, was it zip tied to the main hot wire for the starter or was it actually zip tied to a GROUND? Never tie hot wires to a ground, it's asking for a major short if the insulation wears through.

If that was the main power feed to the starter, then it was woefully undersized.

 

[OMS]

+ 1 with too light of wire

ALSO do not use home electrical wire

Go get some starter cable - it has a better covering

Most home wiring is good to 105C = 221 F

 

[matrixx]

Pretty much what everyone else has said, That is definitely way too small. I would do what Mark suggested..return that 6ga and get a 2ga solenoid to starter cable and all will be good to go.

 

[marks73]

When you buy your wire look at the ends. There should be at least a hundred or so individual small wires all twisted together. The more small wires the better it can carry the load without the heat. That's why welding leads have about a 500 super small individual wires twisted together in 1 insulation sheild.

 

[TommyK]

That should only be the switched source for the solenoid. I have been running a DB Electric starter for 5 years or so with no issues. Are you sure you have it connected to the correct post on the starter? Call DB Electric and talk to them about it.

 

[VegasFastback]

When you buy your wire look at the ends. There should be at least a hundred or so individual small wires all twisted together. The more small wires the better it can carry the load without the heat. That's why welding leads have about a 500 super small individual wires twisted together in 1 insulation sheild.

This is only true with alternating current, grid or house power. Eddy currents push the electricity to the outside of the wire so wire with more surface area, I. E. stranded, conduct with less resistance, which produces heat. Direct current, battery, on the other hand travels through the whole wire so will conduct just as easily through solid wire as stranded.

 

[rutkak]

Gentlemen,

Too answer a few questions:

The red wire that melted is what I what call the trigger wire. It was the additional wire that I ran when I replaced my stock starter. There are two wires coming from the starter. The original, I'm guessing 2-4 gauge wire to the nagtive side and the new additional red wire going to the 12V side of the Solenoid. The additional red wire is what melted.

These two wires were zip tied together and tracking that a bad idea. Hell, I used the zip ties that came with the starter.

OMS, WILCO on the vehicle wire. I'll see what they have locally at Autozone. The 6 gauge I bought is pretty thick, industrial stuff, but tracking your comment that it is insulated differently.

Caspian, my timing is a 10 or so BDC so it should be spot on.

Tommy, I'm very certain I corrected it to the correct post on the starter. I've been using it for several weeks without issue.

The attached pic is from DBElectrical's website. Notice the red wire that comes with the starter. I sent them an email with the melted pics to explain they could be selling equipment that poses a hazard. They have not replied yet but I'll post their reply when I get it.

-KR

[attachment=15131]

 

[OMS]

That starter has it's own solenoid - were you also using the factory solenoid too?

That is like a GM starter

You would have battery power to the solenoid and a ignition wire to activate the solenoid - ground would thru the block

As both wires were pos battery power 1 constant and 1 switched -

wire tying them together should not have been an issue.

Don

 

[Don65Stang]

That should only be the switched source for the solenoid. I have been running a DB Electric starter for 5 years or so with no issues. Are you sure you have it connected to the correct post on the starter? Call DB Electric and talk to them about it.

How is yours wired to the batt? Got pics?

Thanks.

 

[TommyK]

That should only be the switched source for the solenoid. I have been running a DB Electric starter for 5 years or so with no issues. Are you sure you have it connected to the correct post on the starter? Call DB Electric and talk to them about it.

How is yours wired to the batt? Got pics?

Thanks.

10 gauge wire from ignition side of solenoid to small post on starter. 2 gauge wire from battery side of solenoid to large stud on starter. There is a third stud on the starter but nothing is supposed to go to it.

I'll see what I can do for pics.

Edit: Here is a pic of the solenoid. Pic of starter is tough with the big block and headers.



The red wire on the right side of the solenoid with the blue shrink tubing is the switched source that goes to the small lug on the starter. You can see the positive cable on my battery which is black (I know it should be red and may be confusing) goes to the left side of the solenoid. The other heavy black wire you see going from the left side of the solenoid is power to the starter (I know, confusing).

HTH

 

[droptop73]

I have mine wired with a jumper from the main battery cable terminal at the starter to the start terminal on the starter solenoid (approximately 2" long). When you turn the key the stock start wire energizes the original solenoid on the apron which in turn energizes the starter and solenoid at the same time. I hope this makes sense.

 

[Totalled]

Gentlemen,

Too answer a few questions:

The red wire that melted is what I what call the trigger wire. It was the additional wire that I ran when I replaced my stock starter. There are two wires coming from the starter. The original, I'm guessing 2-4 gauge wire to the nagtive side and the new additional red wire going to the 12V side of the Solenoid. The additional red wire is what melted.

NO! There is no negative side to the starter! That large cable hooks to the positive side of the battery, at the starter solenoid. Starters ground through the engine.

I have mine wired with a jumper from the main battery cable terminal at the starter to the start terminal on the starter solenoid (approximately 2" long). When you turn the key the stock start wire energizes the original solenoid on the apron which in turn energizes the starter and solenoid at the same time. I hope this makes sense.

Do you have any problems with your starter staying engaged after you let go of the key? You're not supposed to jump the solenoid like that on a PMGR starter as it can cause it to stay engaged after the key is released.

 

[rutkak]

Totalled,

Roger on no negative side, while facing the starter solenoid I was referring to the right side of it.

-KR