Oil pump problems on 351 C engine

[Dallas]

Ok my friends

Thanks to all of you for the tips, suggestions and advices but I have some problems that I'd like to solve with your help

1) I pulled out the distributor and I've bought a new one but since I don't have any elecronics tools I have to adjust the timing manually and I'm not sure how I have to to do ( point the rotor in the direction of the 1st cylinder ? )

2) How can I crank the oil pump manually ?

Sorry but I'm not expert like you and I don't trust the italian mechanics anymore so I want to do the works by myself

Thanks for the support

Fran

I would absolutely crank the oil pump manually to bring up the oil pressure before I mounted the distributor

Because you have probably completely dry bearings, rocker arms, etc. in your engine.

Also note that when the crankshaft is at TDC, it is not sure that it is cyl 1 That fires may also be cyl 6 that fires

As the crankshaft rotates two revolutions while the camshaft rotates only 1 revolution

/ / Thomas

 

[Thomas]

I made a crank of an Allen screw that fits on the oil pump shaft. Then I usually take off the valve covers then I crank counterclockwise until it comes oil in the rocker arms. Then you've done what you can to avoid more damage.

/ / Thomas


Just like this !!!

// Thomas

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

That's a nifty little tool.

 

[Dallas]

Thanx a lot Thomas !

Ok let me see if I've understood well

1 ) I will install the new oil pump, pick up screen and middle shaft

2 ) I willl fill the engine with fresh new oil

3 ) I will pull out a valve cover ( just one ) and with the tool you told me about I will rotate counterclockwise the oil pump shaft till I will see the oil coming in the rocker arms

4 ) I will install the rotor and I will try to crank the engine

My only doubt now it's how to properly set the distributr manually

Thanks for your support

Fran

I made a crank of an Allen screw that fits on the oil pump shaft. Then I usually take off the valve covers then I crank counterclockwise until it comes oil in the rocker arms. Then you've done what you can to avoid more damage.

/ / Thomas


Just like this !!!

// Thomas

 

[Don C]

You want to set the distributor to TDC on the compression stroke. You find this by removing the number one spark plug. Hold your thumb over the hole and crank the engine over. The compression pressure will push your thumb off the hole when the number one piston approaches TDC. After you get it running you can set the timing with a timing light, a vacuum gauge, or by ear. To set it by ear, with the engine running at about 2,500 rpm slowly advance the distributor until you start hearing a bundle in the exhaust, then back it off slightly. This should get the timing in a place where the engine runs decently.

 

[Thomas]

If you are unsure of thumb method, remove the left (driver's side) valve cover, (cyl 5,6,7,8).

when the rocker arms switches between exhaust / intake on cyl # 6 and the timing pointer is at TDC then you have compression / ignition on cyl # 1.

/ / Thomas

 

[Paul of MO]

Fran,

Reading your questions and because of your lack of tools I will recommend that you find a good mechanic or local old car lover to help you.

Putting in a distributor is not something that is very difficult but is also not very easy.

Someone near you loves old cars and has the basic experience to make this repair a success. Someone near you runs a repair shop that wont treat you badly.

I would even trust someone who works on older tractors or other farm machinery - they had distributors just like our cars have.

You may also make a new friend.

- Paul

 

[Dallas]

Thanks a lot to all of you for the exaustive explanations

In any case, at least, by myself, can I do the point 1,2 and 3 installing the new oil pump ?

Thanks

Fran

Fran,

Reading your questions and because of your lack of tools I will recommend that you find a good mechanic or local old car lover to help you.

Putting in a distributor is not something that is very difficult but is also not very easy.

Someone near you loves old cars and has the basic experience to make this repair a success. Someone near you runs a repair shop that wont treat you badly.

I would even trust someone who works on older tractors or other farm machinery - they had distributors just like our cars have.

You may also make a new friend.

- Paul

 

[Dallas]

Paul

Could you please tell me how can I clean the oil pan from all the debris ?

Thanks

Fran

Fran,

Reading your questions and because of your lack of tools I will recommend that you find a good mechanic or local old car lover to help you.

Putting in a distributor is not something that is very difficult but is also not very easy.

Someone near you loves old cars and has the basic experience to make this repair a success. Someone near you runs a repair shop that wont treat you badly.

I would even trust someone who works on older tractors or other farm machinery - they had distributors just like our cars have.

You may also make a new friend.

- Paul

 

[JimNiki]

Petrol

 

[Paul of MO]

Petrol

Petrol is a good cleaner.

Take a rag and just wipe it out.

May I ask what kind of stuff is in your oil pan?

If it is sludge or thick oil or stains then you are ok.

If it is chunks of metal or other hard bits then things are not ok.

There may be some small chunks of metal off of the old oil pump shaft but not very much.

In general lots of hard bits are not good.

I still think you will be ok with the new shaft, fresh oil, and a correctly installed distributor.

- Paul

 

[Dallas]

Thanks Paul

When I pulled out the plug from the oil pan just black oil came out, now that I pulled out the pan I've noted on the bottom just sludge and black oil but not piece of metals

Unfortunately I didn'f find any V8 lover and/or good mechanic and since I cannot move the car I have to change the oil pump by myself and fill he engine with fresh oil. Later maybe someone ( mechanic ) could adjust the distributor

I've have another question please

I've seen the in the 20 bolt sets of the oil pan there are 4 bolt longer that the other ones

Do I have to screw this 4 bolts in the 2 ends of the oil pan ?

You have to know that now, after that I argued with the DA italian mechanic I brough out my Stang and I have it in my garage without the oil pan

The dumbass mechanic ( with the cooperation of others italian tricky mechanics ), just try to cranck the engine and when he heard the grinding noise told me to pull out the oil pan and when he saw the bottom part of the engine start to tell me that the engine was gone and he could buy my Stang for 11.000 USD. Then an old man that I know that have several old Italian cars ( Lancia HF ) told me to say to the mechanic to go f...himself and bring my Stang back because they wanted to fool me to have the car.

He told me like you, that it's almost impossible that he engine was gona if I didn't use the car since I started to hear the grinding noise and probably just changing the oil pump it would be enough

Last thing that I need and I have to order in the US are the oil pan gaskets

Thanks

Ciao

Fran

Petrol

Petrol is a good cleaner.

Take a rag and just wipe it out.

May I ask what kind of stuff is in your oil pan?

If it is sludge or thick oil or stains then you are ok.

If it is chunks of metal or other hard bits then things are not ok.

There may be some small chunks of metal off of the old oil pump shaft but not very much.

In general lots of hard bits are not good.

I still think you will be ok with the new shaft, fresh oil, and a correctly installed distributor.

- Paul

 

[Paul of MO]

Fran,

The larger bolts go into the 4 corners of the oil pan but it is not important.

Distributor installation instructions:

After you have the oil pan back on and the engine is filled with oil and before the distributor is put back in.

Take off the passenger side valve cover.

Turn the oil pump shaft counter clockwise to pump up the oil pressure.

Watch for oil to start dripping off the rocker arms.

Take off the coil wire from the coil.

Bump the engine with the starter until the 2 rocker arms closest to the front of the engine are both level with each other and the timing pointer is pointing very near or on the 8 BTC mark on the damper. A remote starter tool is cheap and will make this easy so get one. You can just tap the button to turn the engine small amounts.

If you have to crank the engine more than 2 or 3 revolutions when you are trying to get it in the correct position then stop and turn the oil pump shaft again to push more oil through the engine. You will have to make many attempts to get the engine to stop in the correct position.

If the pointer is on 8 BTC but one of the front 2 rocker arms is pointing down then you have to turn the engine one more revolution.

Once it the rocker arms are level and the timing pointer is on the 8 BTC mark on the damper it is time to put the distributor in.

Put the distributor cap on and make a mark on the distributor body that lines up with the number 1 on the cap. Take the cap off. Put the rotor on and point it to the mark you made on the distributor housing.

Place the distributor down into the hole and twist and push until it drops all the way down. Check to see if the rotor is still pointing at the mark you made on the housing. Turn the distributor until the rotor is pointing to the mark you made and that the vacuum advance it pointing to the front.

If you can not turn the distributor enough to get the rotor to point to your mark then you will have to pull up the distributor and reposition the rotor back just a little bit and try again.

Once the distributor is all the way down in the hole, the rotor is pointing to the mark that you made, and the timing pointer is pointing to 8 BTC then you can put the distributor cap on the distributor and install all of the plug and coil wires. Make certain the correct plug wire goes to the correct spark plug.

You must now use a timing light so buy one or borrow one.

Hook up the timing light on the plug wire closest to the front of the car on the passenger side.

Turn on the key but do not start the car.

Slowly turn the distributor left or right until the timing light flashes.

You have now timed your engine very close to where it needs to be.

Tighten down the bolt and clamp that locks the distributor in place.

Start the car.

If it wont start make certain that all of the plug wires are going to the correct spark plugs.

If it still wont start you will need to find someone to come to you and check what you have done.

I hope this works for you.

- Paul

 

[Dallas]

Thanks a lot Paul

I owe you

Just one more question

Where can I found a toll to rotate the oil pump shaft ?

Which tipe of silicone can I use before put the new oil pan gaskets ?

Thanks

I will let you know

Ciao

Fran

Fran,

The larger bolts go into the 4 corners of the oil pan but it is not important.

Distributor installation instructions:

After you have the oil pan back on and the engine is filled with oil and before the distributor is put back in.

Take off the passenger side valve cover.

Turn the oil pump shaft counter clockwise to pump up the oil pressure.

Watch for oil to start dripping off the rocker arms.

Take off the coil wire from the coil.

Bump the engine with the starter until the 2 rocker arms closest to the front of the engine are both level with each other and the timing pointer is pointing very near or on the 8 BTC mark on the damper. A remote starter tool is cheap and will make this easy so get one. You can just tap the button to turn the engine small amounts.

If you have to crank the engine more than 2 or 3 revolutions when you are trying to get it in the correct position then stop and turn the oil pump shaft again to push more oil through the engine. You will have to make many attempts to get the engine to stop in the correct position.

If the pointer is on 8 BTC but one of the front 2 rocker arms is pointing down then you have to turn the engine one more revolution.

Once it the rocker arms are level and the timing pointer is on the 8 BTC mark on the damper it is time to put the distributor in.

Put the distributor cap on and make a mark on the distributor body that lines up with the number 1 on the cap. Take the cap off. Put the rotor on and point it to the mark you made on the distributor housing.

Place the distributor down into the hole and twist and push until it drops all the way down. Check to see if the rotor is still pointing at the mark you made on the housing. Turn the distributor until the rotor is pointing to the mark you made and that the vacuum advance it pointing to the front.

If you can not turn the distributor enough to get the rotor to point to your mark then you will have to pull up the distributor and reposition the rotor back just a little bit and try again.

Once the distributor is all the way down in the hole, the rotor is pointing to the mark that you made, and the timing pointer is pointing to 8 BTC then you can put the distributor cap on the distributor and install all of the plug and coil wires. Make certain the correct plug wire goes to the correct spark plug.

You must now use a timing light so buy one or borrow one.

Hook up the timing light on the plug wire closest to the front of the car on the passenger side.

Turn on the key but do not start the car.

Slowly turn the distributor left or right until the timing light flashes.

You have now timed your engine very close to where it needs to be.

Tighten down the bolt and clamp that locks the distributor in place.

Start the car.

If it wont start make certain that all of the plug wires are going to the correct spark plugs.

If it still wont start you will need to find someone to come to you and check what you have done.

I hope this works for you.

- Paul

 

[Thomas]

http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/sum-901012/overview/

 

[Paul of MO]

You will have to make the tool or use a small thin wall deep socket that will fit down into the small hole and fits the oil pump shaft.

Then use an extension and a ratchet to turn it. You do not have to turn it very fast to get it to pump oil.

On the pan gasket I use a very thin amount of gasket sealer (black or red) just enough to keep it in place and get the 4 larger bolts in the corner of the pan started loosely into the block. Then put all the other bolts in.

Do not over tighten the oil pan bolts - just tight enough to start to smash the gasket and then another 1/4 turn. If it leaks you can always tighten it up a little bit more.

Important - With the engine in the car you may not be able to get your oil pan on with the oil pump mounted on the engine. You might want put the oil pickup on the oil pump and lay it in the pan. Then you place the pan under the engine and reach around the pan to bolt it to the engine.

Another option is to take the bolts out of the motor mounts and raise the engine up enough to wiggle the oil pan into place.

- Paul

 

[Dallas]

Thanks Paul

I'm gonna install the oil pump but I've seen this piece of metal ( in attached a picture ) do I hhave to take it out before installing or eave it ?

I mean that piece of metal that seems a nail

How many liters of oil do I hhave to place in the engine ? 4,5,6 ?

Thanks

Ciao

Fran

http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx252/BlueGhost1972/ReggionellEmilia-20140408-00532.jpg

You will have to make the tool or use a small thin wall deep socket that will fit down into the small hole and fits the oil pump shaft.

Then use an extension and a ratchet to turn it. You do not have to turn it very fast to get it to pump oil.

On the pan gasket I use a very thin amount of gasket sealer (black or red) just enough to keep it in place and get the 4 larger bolts in the corner of the pan started loosely into the block. Then put all the other bolts in.

Do not over tighten the oil pan bolts - just tight enough to start to smash the gasket and then another 1/4 turn. If it leaks you can always tighten it up a little bit more.

Important - With the engine in the car you may not be able to get your oil pan on with the oil pump mounted on the engine. You might want put the oil pickup on the oil pump and lay it in the pan. Then you place the pan under the engine and reach around the pan to bolt it to the engine.

Another option is to take the bolts out of the motor mounts and raise the engine up enough to wiggle the oil pan into place.

- Paul

 

[Totalled]

No! Don't take that out! It retains that plug in the oil pump. The pressure relief spring is behind it.

 

[Dallas]

Thanks a lot

How many oil liters do I have to pun in the engine ? 4,5,6 ?

Thanks

Fran

No! Don't take that out! It retains that plug in the oil pump. The pressure relief spring is behind it.

 

[MechEng]

Thanks a lot

How many oil liters do I have to pun in the engine ? 4,5,6 ?

Thanks

Fran

It'll be just shy of 5 liters, here in the US we use quarts, and the car holds 5 quarts, which converts to somewhere around 4.7 liters