Opinions on going EFI

[c9zx]

Mwallce, What company did Brent use to source your carb? Was it Air Fuel Spark, AED, Pro Systems, or some other source. Brent does really great work. Most of it is FE stuff but he does 351Cs as well. He even has two 302 tunnel port engine in progress. His YouTube channel is Lykins Motorsports. It is worth a look. Chuck

 

[mwallace]

Here is a picture of the carb. Labeled SP Carburetors but I believe its based on a Quick Fuel 750 double pumper w/electric choke

 

[AcesArneson]

You've just given me the perfect reason NOT to give away my Edelbrock 1406 4bbl after I get the E-Street TBI installed - Thanks! I've also got a surge pump (Edelbrock) for mine, so the swap back (if necessary) would also not be a big deal.

I'm in the process of installing an Edelbrock Pro Flo 4 MPFI system on my Jeep's AMC 304, and so far, it's pretty awesome. The toughest part for that build has been locating everything because my fenders swing open (makes working on the engine a LOT easier and looks super cool at car shows), which makes it tough to run wiring and plumbing without having to unplug it all when the fenders are opened. When I was researching the options, I found they no longer offered the E-Street TBI system, which was a bummer... so I found the Pro Flo 4. Since the 304 came [to me] with an Edelbrock Performer 304 intake, I was hoping they'd have the Pro Flo for the 351 Cleveland, and I'd use the E-Street on the Jeep instead, but unfortunately that wasn't the case.

I know it's not a 7173 Mustang, but here's where I'm at so far with the Jeep project. Yes, I have new valve covers... just didn't want to scratch them up while finding homes for everything.

Had to make a place on the firewall for the surge tank, under the battery tray. It's not as big as I though it would be, but the one for the Mustang will wind up taking the place of the windshield washer reservoir when the time comes.

Swing-out fenders have been a MAJOR help with this V8 swap. I need to trim the inners a bit since I also went up to 35" tires, but they still work. 4' of piano hinge and a handful of pop-rivets - best $8 I ever spent on my Jeep.

The main reason this project is taking so long is because I basically kicked my Jeep in the nuts just so I can have a V8 & automatic. Unfortunately, the donor vehicle was almost as bad as my Mach 1 when I first got it, so I had to restore everything before I could swap it in. The engine, transmission, transfer case, driveshafts, steering column, brake pedal assembly, and engine-side wiring harness were all in desperate need of rehab. The steering column and engine harness were the worst of the lot, but now it's all about fighting the weather since I'm doing it all outside under a carport. That, and I'm pretty much overhauling a ton of stuff, to include the roof and doors, seat frames, carpet, stereo, and the biggest of all, HVAC replacement (plumbing everything while the engine goes together). Once I get the Jeep up and operational again, it'll be time to finally install the E-Street onto the Mustang.

Sorry for the trip down 'Off Topic Lane.'

DAverkamp: I'd definitely recommend a Holley Sniper, if that's what you're looking at. My pal Dave (who received my Jeep's donor vehicle with my old engine and stuff) first went with a Howell, and was extremely disappointed with it. After running the original MC2100 2bbl I'd put on the engine for awhile, he switched to the Holley Sniper and has been very pleased ever since. Hope that helps!

 

[AcesArneson]

I was also pissed when Proflow stopped producing the Cleveland EFI kit so I started assembling separate components and once I had found everything I came across these guys. https://460efiguys.com/ They make a complete Cleveland EFI with your intake or one of their own. It’s pretty pricey but you can not compare port injection to throttle body, this is REAL EFI.

 

[AcesArneson]

I guess I’m not against either fuel system. But for me, I purposely sought out a stock Ford EFI system from an earlier model year, mostly for the very high reliability of those systems. So, I am going Speed Density for now, but a Mass Air is an easy conversion with a stock computer.

Have/had cars with both. For me, zero FI issues, some carb issues. I know we mostly hear about the problems folks have with these aftermarket EFI systems, but I’ve not been able to track down the statistics of these on cars. People keep buying them, so there must be a high acceptance rate, or the belief there is. And someone said there is no such thing as a bolt-on carb; that’s the truth, which I think makes EFI something anyone can do (look at me, first time EFI swap and had no codes on the initial runs). I think that goes to the reliability of this fueling approach.

Kinda reminds me of the Apple vs Microsoft debate; one highly customizable and one take it or leave it. I think that fits.

I am also going with late model Ford EFI. I am using an EEC-V from a 2004 Crown Vic and found an older ported Offenhauser intake for a SEFI set up. Motor is still with the builder so I will post threads around the install. Additionally, if you use Ford gear you can also add a 4R70W tranny for the extra gear if you’re an auto guy. I got mine from a 2004 Mustang, same Essex bellhousing as the Cleveland.

 

[MaddMike]

I have a dependable Edelbrock carb that runs great. But during the next year or two I will swap my FMX Trans to a 4R70W AODE. I am agonizing over the decision to switch to EFI at the same time. The shop near me is a Roush dealer and they are suggesting to me a FAST EFI system as they say it is the only system Roush uses and so they have the support and they are accustomed to these systems. This afternoon they showed me a crated, brand new 351C Roush built motor for a 1970 Mustang with the FAST unit on it. They tell me they have good results and few issues with the units. I read online about Holley, FiTech and FAST - and all the reviews are either Love or Hate regardless of the system. Which means it either works great ... or it sucks. It seems like a big leap of faith.

 

[Cleveland Crush]

Mike, why do you want to change your carb that's "Dependable and runs great?" Keep the carb and sink the money somewhere else in your Stang!

 

[Steve1973M1]

Hi All,
I have an older Holley EFI avenger with an old edelbrock performer manifold that has the cross over for manifold heat. This is really helpful in cold weather. The EFI units that are a "carb type" work best in cold weather or hot with this setup. I have a 1" spacer on the manifold. The Idle set at ratio of 14.7 to 1 for cruise and Idle with 12.5 to 1 for wide open. The Holley sniper is an OK unit but the best are Holley HP MP EFI setup or mass flow EFI. (both very expensive). I have a DYI ignition which hooks up to Duraspark distributor with extended Dwell but uses no changes to ballast wiring for coil. I will post it someday. Has hot spark but is not a CDI. I just got tired of the spark plugs, tuning and so on with the "carb setup". The stock alternator with no AC is up for the task .It is not that much more current draw for the EFI by holley. To each is own is best approach to this subject.

 

[MaddMike]

Mike, why do you want to change your carb that's "Dependable and runs great?" Keep the carb and sink the money somewhere else in your Stang!

Yeah I hear you. But when I change the transmission it seems a good time to move to EFI and increase performance with the paired-up pieces. I do want to drive the car and joy it on some distance drives. I definitely intend the AODE swap. I suppose I will wait another year, there is no hurry, before pulling the trigger on the decision.

 

[AcesArneson]

I have a dependable Edelbrock carb that runs great. But during the next year or two I will swap my FMX Trans to a 4R70W AODE. I am agonizing over the decision to switch to EFI at the same time. The shop near me is a Roush dealer and they are suggesting to me a FAST EFI system as they say it is the only system Roush uses and so they have the support and they are accustomed to these systems. This afternoon they showed me a crated, brand new 351C Roush built motor for a 1970 Mustang with the FAST unit on it. They tell me they have good results and few issues with the units. I read online about Holley, FiTech and FAST - and all the reviews are either Love or Hate regardless of the system. Which means it either works great ... or it sucks. It seems like a big leap of faith.

I am going SEFI on my 351C rebuild. Why go EFI if you’re going to still mix fuel in the throttle body. 460EFI guys sell a conversion kit and it is definitely worth it. I went with piecemeal using a n EEC-V from an ‘04 Crown Vic to run the EFI and tranny. Be careful which 4t70w tranny you use. Anything from a mod motor will not bolt up without a very expensive adapter. Get one from an 03 or 04 mustang V6. They are strong and have the Essex bellhouse pattern.

 

[Hemikiller]

I am going SEFI on my 351C rebuild. Why go EFI if you’re going to still mix fuel in the throttle body. 460EFI guys sell a conversion kit and it is definitely worth it. I went with piecemeal using a n EEC-V from an ‘04 Crown Vic to run the EFI and tranny. Be careful which 4t70w tranny you use. Anything from a mod motor will not bolt up without a very expensive adapter. Get one from an 03 or 04 mustang V6. They are strong and have the Essex bellhouse pattern.

This is where I'm at with EFI. If I'm going to drop the money and effort of installing a system, it'll be a port injection system based off OEM parts. The TBI systems have a lot of compromises to make them "simple" and some QC problems that just don't give me the warm fuzzies.

IIRC, '02 was the last year of the mechanical speedo in the 4R70W. '03-up are digital, and will require an electronic speedo or a CableX converter.

 

[MaddMike]

This is where I'm at with EFI. If I'm going to drop the money and effort of installing a system, it'll be a port injection system based off OEM parts. The TBI systems have a lot of compromises to make them "simple" and some QC problems that just don't give me the warm fuzzies.

IIRC, '02 was the last year of the mechanical speedo in the 4R70W. '03-up are digital, and will require an electronic speedo or a CableX converter.

Agree, I know to aim for an AODE from a few specific years and applications i.e. Mustang or F-150.

 

[73 SGM Mach]

Mike,
I have a Holley Sniper EFI with the Hyperspark ignition and love it...now.
The Sniper set up I found to be a little difficult to set up and get going. I had to do alot of grounding, added a spacer to both the carb and air cleaner added a new plastic air cleaner rod new shift cable etc. From one MP to another, I'll say this make it a winter project and be prepared to read on the Holley help site. BUT I think thats the nature of any of these projects each car is differnt and provides its own challenges. I really do love driving the car now it starts easy and purrs right down the highway.
Jeff

 

[MaddMike]

Mike,
I have a Holley Sniper EFI with the Hyperspark ignition and love it...now.
The Sniper set up I found to be a little difficult to set up and get going. I had to do alot of grounding, added a spacer to both the carb and air cleaner added a new plastic air cleaner rod new shift cable etc. From one MP to another, I'll say this make it a winter project and be prepared to read on the Holley help site. BUT I think thats the nature of any of these projects each car is differnt and provides its own challenges. I really do love driving the car now it starts easy and purrs right down the highway.
Jeff

 

[MaddMike]

Thanks for this info. Although I don't need to I want to upgrade and make the leap installing both the AODE Transmission and EFI. To my benefit, I have a really good shop nearby who works with EFIs on Muscle cars, often. In the past I did all my own work but in this case I will let the experts do it so it comes with a warrantee and if there are glitches they will work on it 'til it's right. Although I don't leave it out of my sight and avoid heavy traffic, I want to drive it and enjoy it.

 

[rcadd1ct]

To me if you move away from stock you will have to work on it,

Either turn wrenches to adjust the carb or push keys to tune efi.

no matter what there is no drop in solution other than having it dyno tuned before you install it.

 

[Stanglover]

My 2 cents worth from my point of view.
Unless you are driving your Mustang daily and live in an area where you can actually do that, why go EFI? Yes I know there are advantages, that's not in dispute, but the cost of that system over the cost of the bit extra gas and a little more inconvenience, is not something I'd consider when I only drive 5 months a year and then only on days beginning with "S". Beside EFI or more correctly TBI, is old tech from the early 80's. At that time of course, it was the best option and was designed specifically for each vehicle.
A far better solution would be direct port injection and that would entail a manifold with fuel rails, injectors and a throttle body with a MAF sensor. But guess what, it doesn't exist for these cars, but boy, if it did, then that would be something to consider.
However guys, if it's what YOU want, that's your call. I'm just saying it's not for me.

 

[giantpune]

My 2 cents worth from my point of view.
Unless you are driving your Mustang daily and live in an area where you can actually do that, why go EFI? Yes I know there are advantages, that's not in dispute, but the cost of that system over the cost of the bit extra gas and a little more inconvenience, is not something I'd consider when I only drive 5 months a year and then only on days beginning with "S". Beside EFI or more correctly TBI, is old tech from the early 80's. At that time of course, it was the best option and was designed specifically for each vehicle.
A far better solution would be direct port injection and that would entail a manifold with fuel rails, injectors and a throttle body with a MAF sensor. But guess what, it doesn't exist for these cars, but boy, if it did, then that would be something to consider.
However guys, if it's what YOU want, that's your call. I'm just saying it's not for me.

I'm putting my eggs in the carb-cheater basket. At least on 1 of my cars at first to test out.

You retain your existing setup with carb, fuel pump, and fuel lines. It adds in the O2 sensor and some instrumentation to hopefully take the guess work out of tuning the carb.

What sold me is the cost was not terribly high and the ability to undo it and revert back to the carb alone is easy. If the carb cheater craps out, all it takes is to plug the vacuum lines and your car is reverted back to your old setup.

 

[Stanglover]

I'm putting my eggs in the carb-cheater basket. At least on 1 of my cars at first to test out.

You retain your existing setup with carb, fuel pump, and fuel lines. It adds in the O2 sensor and some instrumentation to hopefully take the guess work out of tuning the carb.

What sold me is the cost was not terribly high and the ability to undo it and revert back to the carb alone is easy. If the carb cheater craps out, all it takes is to plug the vacuum lines and your car is reverted back to your old setup.

That might be something to check out. I already have O2 bungs in my exhaust H pipe from when I needed to use a AFR gauge.

 

[Cleveland Crush]

For all my friends that want to ditch your poor running carb for efi: PLEASE just get your carb adjusted properly!!