Please help. Starter keeps running

[kevken1959]

Okay. I've read all the posts I can find about this issue and nothing I try works. I've got a 72 Mustang with a 351C. This is a car someone else restored so I'm not sure what all was done to it. The car would start fine but the starter would stay engaged for a second after the ignition key was turned back to the "run" position. I also occasionally heard a noise that sounded like the starter gear hitting the flywheel while it was running. It was a very rare "chink" noise while the car was idling. So I figured the Bendix in the starter was bad. I just put in a new starter and it kept running while the engine was running. When I turned the ignition off, the engine and the starter killed like they were supposed to. So then I installed a new solenoid. No luck. The starter kept running. Then I tapped the new solenoid several times thinking it was stuck. No luck. Starter still keeps running. I verified the two wires going to the front of the solenoid were not switched, and they weren't. Then I turned the ignition key on and went out and jumped the solenoid with a screwdriver and the car started and the starter kept running and I disconnected BOTH of the wires going to front of the solenoid and the starter STILL kept running, so I grabbed the coil wire and disconnected it and shocked the shit out of myself but the car did kill and so did the starter. It seems like there is some issue with the flywheel causing the starter Bendix to stay engaged when the starter is engaged. I inspected the flywheel teeth when I removed the old starter and they are fine. The old starter gear looked okay with a few metal filings around it. What are the chances I got a new starter with a bad Bendix? I think the fact that the starter kept running when I disconnected BOTH of the wires on the front of it rules out a bad solenoid. Any ideas?

 

[JDuvall]

It sounds like the starter is getting stuck on the fly wheel. Pull the starter and test it and verify that it extends out and back when the power is removed. AutoZone or any other store can test it as well. Once the starter is ruled out of being the problem then the next step is validating it’s the correct starter. Is the car stock with an automatic? There are different depths for ford starters, along with different flywheels sizes. Count the teeth on the fly wheel. Hopefully this helps to get you going in the right direction.

 

[vintageman]

I agree with JD above, pull the starter and test it on a bench or at a local auto parts store. It would not be the first time a new one was bad. I got 4 straight in a row within one week that were bad from an AutoZone a couple years ago (for an old LTD though). After much frustration, I went to another AutoZone in town, did a warranty exchange and got a good one, same brand. Just turned out that one location had a bad stock of them. Good luck.

Tom

 

[kevken1959]

Thanks JD and Tom. That was great advice! I think I have it fixed. It looks like the ignition switch was sticking. I pulled down the steering column and removed the switch, oiled it and the ignition cylinder with WD40 and worked them around, readjusted the switch, and the car cranks fine now but I still have to be careful about how far I turn the ignition cylinder and "get off of it" the second the car starts, or the starter gear will keep touching the flywheel for a second. That still doesn't explain to me why the starter kept running when I jumped it at the solenoid or when I pulled the two wires off the front of the solenoid. I would think that would have eliminated the ignition switch as the cause of the problem. I did remove the starter, and I replaced it with another new one I had for another car but it still did the same thing as the first starter. Anyway, thanks for the help! Kevin

 

[cjstaci]

Sounds like the solenoid is bad.

 

[kevken1959]

I thought so too, but put four in and they all did the same thing!

 

[jasonwthompson]

Is it still points ignition? I have a first gen Duraspark ignition that did the same thing. Replaced the ignition module and all has been great for a couple of years now.

 

[kevken1959]

Thanks Jason. It has a re-manufactured Motorcraft distributor with a pertronix ignitor.

 

[vintageman]

Thanks JD and Tom. That was great advice! I think I have it fixed. It looks like the ignition switch was sticking. I pulled down the steering column and removed the switch, oiled it and the ignition cylinder with WD40 and worked them around, readjusted the switch, and the car cranks fine now but I still have to be careful about how far I turn the ignition cylinder and "get off of it" the second the car starts, or the starter gear will keep touching the flywheel for a second. That still doesn't explain to me why the starter kept running when I jumped it at the solenoid or when I pulled the two wires off the front of the solenoid. I would think that would have eliminated the ignition switch as the cause of the problem. I did remove the starter, and I replaced it with another new one I had for another car but it still did the same thing as the first starter. Anyway, thanks for the help! Kevin

Kevken, as far as having to be careful how far you turn the ignition cylinder comment, I also had that exact same issue with my aftermarket over the shelf lock cylinder. The pin that holds the cylinder locked in place and presses in when you turn the key was sticking on mine. I had to be careful and make sure I didn't think it would automatically spring back when I stopped turning the key forward to start the car. Sometimes it would spring back, sometimes it wouldn't and I would have to kinda turn the key back myself. I pulled the brass pin out and reinstalled the cylinder and have had no issue since. I have tried many other brands at the parts stores and tried to manually press the pin in when turning the key and so far, none have moved freely. I still have the pin I took out and may try some emory cloth to narrow the diameter but right now, am content with it as it is. Sometimes I have to press the cylinder back fully in place but it never comes out more than about and 1/8 of an inch so I am not really worried about it. Good luck.

Tom

 

[kevken1959]

Kevken, as far as having to be careful how far you turn the ignition cylinder comment, I also had that exact same issue with my aftermarket over the shelf lock cylinder. The pin that holds the cylinder locked in place and presses in when you turn the key was sticking on mine. I had to be careful and make sure I didn't think it would automatically spring back when I stopped turning the key forward to start the car. Sometimes it would spring back, sometimes it wouldn't and I would have to kinda turn the key back myself. I pulled the brass pin out and reinstalled the cylinder and have had no issue since. I have tried many other brands at the parts stores and tried to manually press the pin in when turning the key and so far, none have moved freely. I still have the pin I took out and may try some emory cloth to narrow the diameter but right now, am content with it as it is. Sometimes I have to press the cylinder back fully in place but it never comes out more than about and 1/8 of an inch so I am not really worried about it. Good luck.

Tom

I'll check that. Thanks Tom!

 

[kevken1959]

So I have to follow up on this post. I have this 72 Mustang that the starter would keep engaging after it started. I replaced the ignition switch, the starter, and the solenoid with no luck. Then I tried this and now the car starts perfectly!

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00062YAIU?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

I've owned a lot of these cars and have never had to use a shim before between the starter and the bell housing. Thought you all might want to know. Kevin.

 

[giantpune]

So I have to follow up on this post. I have this 72 Mustang that the starter would keep engaging after it started. I replaced the ignition switch, the starter, and the solenoid with no luck. Then I tried this and now the car starts perfectly!

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00062YAIU?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

I've owned a lot of these cars and have never had to use a shim before between the starter and the bell housing. Thought you all might want to know. Kevin.

Are you sure you got the correct starter? The automatic and manual transmission ones have a different depth. Maybe you got the wrong one and the shim is helping correct it?

 

[Sheriff41]

So I have to follow up on this post. I have this 72 Mustang that the starter would keep engaging after it started. I replaced the ignition switch, the starter, and the solenoid with no luck. Then I tried this and now the car starts perfectly!

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00062YAIU?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

I've owned a lot of these cars and have never had to use a shim before between the starter and the bell housing. Thought you all might want to know. Kevin.

In five decades of working on these cars, I've never seen a shim used on a Ford starter. GM starters in the 60s and 70s often used shims. I always thought the difference was the GM starters bolts ran vertically into the block, whereas the Fords' bolt ran horizontally into the bell housing.

 

[c9zx]

I've had to use a shim exactly once in 50+ years of working in Fords. The ring gear was not properly seated on the flex plate. Installing the shim was a lot easier than changing the flex plate. Chuck

 

[kevken1959]

Are you sure you got the correct starter? The automatic and manual transmission ones have a different depth. Maybe you got the wrong one and the shim is helping correct it?

Thanks. Yes, the starter is definitely for an automatic and the old starter was doing the same thing (that's why I replaced it). The car came with an FMX but TPO swapped it to a C-6, but I wouldn't think that would make a difference.

 

[kevken1959]

In five decades of working on these cars, I've never seen a shim used on a Ford starter. GM starters in the 60s and 70s often used shims. I always thought the difference was the GM starters bolts ran vertically into the block, whereas the Fords' bolt ran horizontally into the bell housing.

Like I said before, Chuck, it had never happened to me either. But then again, you have to wonder why they made a Ford shim built for our starters if they weren't sometimes needed.

 

[kevken1959]

I've had to use a shim exactly once in 50+ years of working in Fords. The ring gear was not properly seated on the flex plate. Installing the shim was a lot easier than changing the flex plate. Chuck

That makes since, Chuck. Here's a picture I took of the flywheel. I expected it to be pretty messed up with the issues of the starter failing to disengage, but it looks okay to me.