Points vs MSD electronic ignition?

[cazsper]

When I bought my '73 Mach-1, the guy I had purchased it from sort of "mismatched" a lot of parts. It has a 10:1 4v- Cleveland, too big of a cam but I don't have the specs, 650 dbl pumper with no choke (he actually removed it) c6 with 3.50 gears (one legger), And 3" exhaust. As for the ignition, it still has dual points. I am pretty sure I will be going to a 750 Holley (vac 2nd) in the future but concerning the ignition, if I were to swap from points to an electronic ignition, will that actually make my car run better (smoother idle) ? I didn't think so but I have been told that. Thanks..

Mike

 

[iceberg65]

Properly maintained points work fine, but a electronic ignition is generally more reliable; and a capacitive discharge ignition just brings in a lot more spark energy. The biggest difference I noted was that it was easier to get the car to idle.

 

[cazsper]

Properly maintained points work fine, but a electronic ignition is generally more reliable; and a capacitive discharge ignition just brings in a lot more spark energy. The biggest difference I noted was that it was easier to get the car to idle.

Oh ok.. so by changing the ignition I could possibly get a better idle? That's basically my issue..

 

[Mikes73]

I have had both style ignition systems on the same engine and can tell you with absolute certainty it starts, runs and idles way better with the MSD system. It is also far easier to tune a good timing curve. The down side is the cost but would do it again in without question.

 

[cazsper]

I have had both style ignition systems on the same engine and can tell you with absolute certainty it starts, runs and idles way better with the MSD system. It is also far easier to tune a good timing curve. The down side is the cost but would do it again in without question.

Perfect.. exactly what I needed to hear. Thank you..

 

[mustang7173]

Hello cazsper,

According the Carburetor calculations, the 650 double pumper would be consider the right size for a 351 @ 6000 rpm's. Since he remove the choke mechanism, it would be prudent to replace carburetor.

Source: https://www.summitracing.com/expertadviceandnews/calcsandtools/cfm-calculator

I agree with the electronic ignition along with the spark box.

Let us know what you do!

Thanks

mustang7173 :bravo:

 

[4Vforever]

Just get a single point distributor or convert your twin point with a single point breaker plate and use a Pertronix 1 or 2 ignitor conversion with matching coil. Cheap, easy and will do everything you want with a street engine. Just make sure the distributor doesn't have a lot of play in the shaft, or just replace the bush. The only other thing is to get your timing curve sorted which is fairly easy and there's been plenty written on this subject over the years. I use the P2 and coil on my 4V and it loves it, best of all it has a retard function for easier starting. I'm not a fan at all of anything MSD as I've had way too many problems with their gear since being made OS and their support sucks, it is your faulty that their crappy products broke down from out of the box (more than once) or next to no work (heaps of times) I've not used their products in over 10 years, like many others.

Stay with the 750 carb for your 4V as it will thank you for it. I've seen too many calculators (not enough info to exactly work out what's needed) and people using their recommendations been very disappointed. One thing most people (including those that should know better) is the 4V Cleveland is unlike any other engine out there, but they try to treat it like it is. With a nicely tuned 750 VS and a Pertronix set up the engine will do everything you're looking for, nice idle quality (providing the cam is not too wild) and good top end power. Like anything, tuning it to suit your application is the key.

 

[turtle5353]

If you don't want to get an msd because of the cost... you can pick up a ford duraspark ignition system pretty cheap. You can buy a rebuilt dizzy, ignition module for around $100. Easy to wire and stone cold reliable. I have a spare duraspark dizzy and igniton module and coil I keep in my trunk on long road trips.... just in case my MSD shits the bed.

 

[flstf09]

I have recurved Durasparks and MSD boxes in both of my old Fords.The 521 has a 6al and the 302 has the Street Fire box.Its the first thing I always upgrade.When I first got my 72 it had a 460 with points.Converted to DS and MSD box,they start better,less maintenance,don't know about running better but everything seems crisper.Myself I don't care for msd dizzys.Waste of money imo.Look inside a DS and a MSD dizzy sometime.Cant go wrong upgrading to electronic no matter which direction you go.

 

[Don C]

+1 on the 750 cfm carburetor. Those calculators are for the bow-tie boys. Cleveland's like way more carburetor.

 

[Mikes73]

The MSD does use the same magnetic pickup as the duraspark but the MSD is way better built than the duraspark, the latter feels flimsy in construction compared to the MSD. I like duraspark ignition and it is a definite step up from points but I like the MSD setup better

 

[Stanglover]

4Vforever and turtle5353 have very good points. (no pun intended)

Why people want that ugly red distributor and huge red box in an engine bay that is blue and black beats me just on looks alone.

Recently, there has been many discussions on timing. Sure, not everyone agrees and that's all good, but going with a well remanufactured Motorcraft dizzy, with the correct slot plate (I have L10, 20* crank for my 71 351 4V ), + proper initial timing of 12-16 *, set up with a Pertronix II and coil, will give you everything you'll ever need. There is also the Pertronix drop in distributor with the Ignitor III with a Flamethrower III coil if you need a somewhat stock looking distributor. The DuraSpark would be my second best option, proven reliability.

As for carbs, I run a 670 Holley Street Avenger with 65 primary and 67 secondary jets. On my engine it needed more air at idle and my tuner drilled small holes in the primary plates to balance it out. It idles perfectly now and I get good power and economy. Some think a 750 is too big, but I would go to that and then jet it as needed if I had to buy another carb, but that's your choice.

 

[Mikes73]

I like my ugly red box and distributor, different strokes for different folks

 

[iceberg65]

Also been running a duraspark distributor along with a msd box and a 750 dp on mine; the 4v likes the bigger carb for sure. I also picked up a skip white distributor to try out; seems like a decent piece for what it cost. I absolutely feel the electronic ignition is worthwhile; picked up a spare 6al box used for cheap too; good insurance after someone stole my Crane Cams box.

 

[cazsper]

Hello cazsper,

According the Carburetor calculations, the 650 double pumper would be consider the right size for a 351 @ 6000 rpm's. Since he remove the choke mechanism, it would be prudent to replace carburetor.

Source: https://www.summitracing.com/expertadviceandnews/calcsandtools/cfm-calculator

I agree with the electronic ignition along with the spark box.

Let us know what you do!

Thanks

mustang7173 :bravo:

Will do. For an automatic, would it be better to go with vacuum secondaries? I have mechanical now..

 

[cazsper]

+1 on the 750 cfm carburetor. Those calculators are for the bow-tie boys. Cleveland's like way more carburetor.

I've done the math but I have heard the clevelands like a little more carb.

 

[cazsper]

The MSD does use the same magnetic pickup as the duraspark but the MSD is way better built than the duraspark, the latter feels flimsy in construction compared to the MSD. I like duraspark ignition and it is a definite step up from points but I like the MSD setup better

Thanks.. I just said MSD because I've always used it in the past. I've never used anything else..

 

[Mikes73]

Right on.

 

[Don C]

Generally, vacuum secondaries work best with automatic transmissions. However, it really depends on individual driving styles and knowing how they interact. I prefer mechanical secondaries with an automatic, but have vacuum secondaries for drivability for my wife.