Ref to "my block is good" 01/27/16

[Stanglover]

Guys, my engine is being rebuilt at this time. In my last posts on this subject, dated 1/27/16, Barnett468 mentioned "putting Zinc additive in oil is not a good idea and can actually cause problems......"

I would appreciate Barnett clarifying that statement by suggesting what I should use for break-in. Also, I noted that valve spring pressure should NOT be over 280psi open. This is excellent information, which I will relay to the builder. A friend of mine who has built and raced many Cleveland's confirms this and strongly suggests the use of old soft springs for break-in on the stand, then changing them for the new ones. Simply put, I don't want to kill another cam any time soon.

One other question is should I or should I not use a high volume oil pump on a stock engine? It had a high volume put in the last time around. I've read that high volume pumps can cause problems as well.

Thanks in advance,

Geoff.

 

[Canted 393]

For oil just use Comp Camsbreak in oil, 10W30. Just had a 393 stroker built and that's what was used. Now I am running VR1 10W30.

 

[Stanglover]

For oil just use Comp Camsbreak in oil, 10W30. Just had a 393 stroker built and that's what was used. Now I am running VR1 10W30.

Thanks, I'll pass that on to my builder so he can order some.

Geoff.

 

[jbojo]

For oil just use Comp Camsbreak in oil, 10W30. Just had a 393 stroker built and that's what was used. Now I am running VR1 10W30.

Thanks, I'll pass that on to my builder so he can order some.

Geoff.

I used this for my break-in, little pricey but didn't want to buy another cam.

Joe Gibbs Driven BR Break-In Motor Oil

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/jgr-03706

After the 400 miles I started using the Valvoline VR1 10W30 too.

 

[c9zx]

Joe Gibbs or Driven makes good break in oil as well. Additives may not be compatible with the additive package in the oil. As examples, too much detergent lessen the effectiveness of ZDDP and too much ZDDP, above 1400 PPM, can cause pitting. You must use proper oil after break in as well. There are other potential conflicts as well. A chemist will not "mix in the blind" and neither should we. There are several companies that sell break in and daily use oil for older cars, flat tappet cams, and stressed valve train components.

As an example, I use Joe Gibbs break in and Amsoil Z-rod after break in.

Chuck

 

[Stanglover]

Joe Gibbs or Driven makes good break in oil as well. Additives may not be compatible with the additive package in the oil. As examples, too much detergent lessen the effectiveness of ZDDP and too much ZDDP, above 1400 PPM, can cause pitting. You must use proper oil after break in as well. There are other potential conflicts as well. A chemist will not "mix in the blind" and neither should we. There are several companies that sell break in and daily use oil for older cars, flat tappet cams, and stressed valve train components.

As an example, I use Joe Gibbs break in and Amsoil Z-rod after break in.

Chuck

More good info, thanks Chuck.

Geoff

 

[barnett468]

I too use Joe Gibbs now.

Do not use comp cam lifters.

I use Crane or Isky cam oiler lifters.

Do not use a high volume pump unless your crank and rod clearances are around .00275" or more.

If you plan to rev it to around 5500 or higher often, put a 60 psi bypass spring in it or preload the existing spring with .020" washer.

Disassemble and clean the pump and valve prior to installation . Make sure the valve travels extremely freely thru the hole . If it does not, run a ball hone with WD40 in the hole for 5 seconds then clean the hole extremely well and put oil on the valve and try it again.

Some of the valves in these pumps have been sticking lately causing around 100 psi at idle....not good.

 

[Stanglover]

I too use Joe Gibbs now.

Do not use comp cam lifters.

I use Crane or Isky cam oiler lifters.

Do not use a high volume pump unless your crank and rod clearances are around .00275" or more.

If you plan to rev it to around 5500 or higher often, put a 60 psi bypass spring in it or preload the existing spring with .020" washer.

Disassemble and clean the pump and valve prior to installation . Make sure the valve travels extremely freely thru the hole . If it does not, run a ball hone with WD40 in the hole for 5 seconds then clean the hole extremely well and put oil on the valve and try it again.

Some of the valves in these pumps have been sticking lately causing around 100 psi at idle....not good.

Thanks Barnett for getting back on this. I certainly will go over this with my builder. I can't afford another cam issue.

Geoff.

 

[MeZapU]

On my new engine I did a few things to aid in cam/lifter break-in. I am using valve springs with 150lbs closed and 350lbs open.

Custom Solid flat tappet camshaft was nitrited.

Lifters were tool steel with EDM holes.

I used Penzoil high mileage 10w30 and a bottle of Prolong additive.

I checked the valve lash after break-in to find that not a single one needed adjusting. I have about 400 miles on it now and a few pulls on the chassis dyno. The valvetrain is still ticking along like a sewing machine.

Not saying that my way is the correct way or the only way. But it worked for me.

You can grab a beer or two and give this blog a read. It is likely eye opening if you are unfamiliar with the details behind ZDDP, engine oil and engine additives.

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/

 

[barnett468]

Thanks Barnett for getting back on this. I certainly will go over this with my builder. I can't afford another cam issue.

Geoff.

No prob, hope it helps . . Your builder also sounds like he is user friendly and very knowledgeable.

As far as the 540rat oil "article" goes, there is some useful info in it and some inaccurate info . Below is just one comment that is not completely accurate because Group III oils are not required to contain 100% "synthetic" oil and could contain as little as around 30% "synthetic" with the rest being Group II oil . This is just another example that you should not believe everything you read on the internet, irregardless of how professional the forma is.

"Group III – is a highly refined conventional mineral oil made through a process called hydrocracking. This group of oil is allowed to be called a synthetic oil in North America"

.

 

[Stanglover]

On my new engine I did a few things to aid in cam/lifter break-in. I am using valve springs with 150lbs closed and 350lbs open.

Custom Solid flat tappet camshaft was nitrited.

Lifters were tool steel with EDM holes.

I used Penzoil high mileage 10w30 and a bottle of Prolong additive.

I checked the valve lash after break-in to find that not a single one needed adjusting. I have about 400 miles on it now and a few pulls on the chassis dyno. The valvetrain is still ticking along like a sewing machine.

Not saying that my way is the correct way or the only way. But it worked for me.

You can grab a beer or two and give this blog a read. It is likely eye opening if you are unfamiliar with the details behind ZDDP, engine oil and engine additives.

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/

Interesting info, thanks. I'm not going the solid lifter route on this engine. The blog may take more than a beer or three. I did scan over it and will read when I get time.

Thanks for the input,

Geoff

Thanks Barnett for getting back on this. I certainly will go over this with my builder. I can't afford another cam issue.

Geoff.

No prob, hope it helps . . Your builder also sounds like he is user friendly and very knowledgeable.

As far as the 540rat oil "article" goes, there is some useful info in it and some inaccurate info . Below is just one comment that is not completely accurate because Group III oils are not required to contain 100% "synthetic" oil and could contain as little as around 30% "synthetic" with the rest being Group II oil . This is just another example that you should not believe everything you read on the internet, irregardless of how professional the forma is.

"Group III – is a highly refined conventional mineral oil made through a process called hydrocracking. This group of oil is allowed to be called a synthetic oil in North America"

.

More interesting info. You guys are an amazing source of good material. Yes, we cannot believe EVERYTHING we read on the internet (or here even). We need to evaluate all information and base decisions on the facts.

As a side note and without giving out too many details, the shop I am using, builds some very expensive and very rare engines for a major restoration company. If they are good enough for them, I thought they would be good enough for me. They are taking care of my problem and I'm sure that whatever did go wrong, will be corrected.

Thanks to everyone for your input, I have what I need for now,

Geoff.

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

not an oil suggestion, but I do recommend changing the oil after the initial break in within 2 hours of operation and replacing it with the same break in oil you use. Then run the oil for just a few hundred miles before changing to conventional oil. I do not think synthetic is a good choice until the engine has had a few thousand miles put on it.

 

[Stanglover]

not an oil suggestion, but I do recommend changing the oil after the initial break in within 2 hours of operation and replacing it with the same break in oil you use. Then run the oil for just a few hundred miles before changing to conventional oil. I do not think synthetic is a good choice until the engine has had a few thousand miles put on it.

Good suggestion Jeff. I definitely was NOT planning on running the break-in oil as long as I was told to run it before and that was 500 miles, but that was oil plus Lucas break-in additive......... and I read that Lucas is NOT recommended for passenger car engines on their own web-site.

 

[Don C]

You can grab a beer or two and give this blog a read. It is likely eye opening if you are unfamiliar with the details behind ZDDP, engine oil and engine additives.

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/

Thanks for posting this. I've seen it before, a few years ago, glad to see he's still testing and updating, as well as including other information.

 

[barnett468]

.

if you run synthetic, i would consider modifying the crank to use a 1 piece rear main seal . this is even a good idea if you dont use synthetic.

 

[Stanglover]

.

if you run synthetic, i would consider modifying the crank to use a 1 piece rear main seal . this is even a good idea if you dont use synthetic.

Good point. I'll not be running synthetic, too expensive just to run it for a few summer months. I always change the oil at the beginning of the season to remove any condensation that built up over the cold long winter.

 

[Casey72]

Good timing with this thread, as I just bolted the heads onto the 393C. My bearing clearances were just under .002, so I went with the blueprinted standard volume pump.

 

[barnett468]

Good timing with this thread, as I just bolted the heads onto the 393C. My bearing clearances were just under .002, so I went with the blueprinted standard volume pump.

That clearance is pretty tight.

 

[Casey72]

Good timing with this thread, as I just bolted the heads onto the 393C. My bearing clearances were just under .002, so I went with the blueprinted standard volume pump.

That clearance is pretty tight.

The plastigauge was just a hair fatter than the .002" band on the packaging, just enough that it didn't quite seem like an even .002" reading, so that's the measurement I have to go with. Every journal was the same, though.