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Good news Jeff, I bet it's hard to be patient to get it back together. :)

 
I ordered my rotating assembly yesterday from MME racing. Here are some details on where this build will be going. The block has been decked and will bore when pistons are in hand, but cylinder wall wear/taper was .012 so a 030 overbore will clean it up.

for my 393 Cleveland build I am using a 2 bolt block

9.198 deck height

4.030 bore

Here is where we are going

11:1 compression

3.85 stroke, forged crank and pistons, internally balanced, H beam rods

ATI Dampener, Moroso 9 qt Oil pan and pick up, arp main and head studs, high volume oil pump, ARP oil pump drive shaft Centerforce 0 imbalance flywheel

In discussing block mods for oiling, the information I received was this

Lifter bore bushings if the machine shop has the proper tooling to do it right are the only way he feels that oiling is actually improved. Installation of oil restrictors is a good way to increase the pressure reading on the gauges, but does nothing in reality. External lines are the same thing.

Still mulling all this over as his experience is much greater than mine in this area

 
Woo hoo!! Sounds like a great setup, Jeff! Regarding the oiling mods, are you going to the track every weekend? For months on end? If not, nothing I've read indicates that the oil mods are needed/useful for street play and/or occasional short strip launches. :)

 
The lifter bore bushings are a good idea. The oil bands on some lifters get exposed with some cams. Some lifters compensate for this (crane & lunati) some cam makers compensate with their base circle (comp cams) but bushings can solve the issue. On the pump. I have always been told that street cars do not need high volume pumps, even with a bigger sump to avoid starvation. Best of luck wih the build!

 
Solid roller cam, you might talk to your machinist about adding another cam gear retaining pin in the camshaft.

 
HV oil pumps and big oil pans can fill the valve covers on a 351C. The oil can not drain fast enough to get back to the pan. Its a mess.

HV oil pumps and stock pans can pump the pan dry and then the oil pump runs dry for a few seconds - no mess but bad things happen.

HV pumps can wipe bearings - this is sort of not true - sort of... Very hard to explain. Here goes......

The bearings that have a smaller oil hole in them than the blocks oil passages or that get installed slightly off center (a poor mans restrictor trick) will end up with higher oil pressure behind them thus lifting or pushing the bearing harder against the journals at that point. This gives the illusion that the bearing has been "wiped" by the oil when in fact the clearances just got pinched and the bearing failed.

I did use HV pumps on a solid lifter race only engines. We clearanced all the bearings to make certian that the oil hole was much larger than the oil passage in the block. Everything was chamfered and cleaned up. We bushed the lifters only. No other restrictions added. We also added a big line from the back of the heads and down to the back of the pan for the oil to have a place to go. The only other must was to have a "crank scrapper" type windage tray.

These were engines that were launched at 8500 rpm and shifted at 9K. Miss a shift and they could bounce off of 12K and still stay together most of the time (but not always).

We built a few multiple dry sump setups so the crank, cam, and valve train all had its own seperate oiling systems. These were expensive, complicated, and did not seem to hold up better than just bushing the lifter bores.

I have built and ran your proposed set up with a stock pump, stock pan, stock rods, and no oiling mods. It sounds to me like your engine builder knows about 351C's. That is kind of rare. Trust him.

If you drop the compression into the low to mid 10's you can run quench heads on todays crappy premium pump gas. If not your are going to have to tune very very carefully to keep it from pinging and or you are going to have to add octane booster each time you fill up.

Clevelands do not like to get "pinged" and tend to come apart pretty fast when they get lean. It is so much more forgiving to tune a 9:5 or 10:1 engine than an 11:1 and the seat of the pants difference in real world of street performance is minimal.

The true wonderment of a 351C is that you can spin them must faster than a "normal" engine due to the fuel velocities and tricky fuel charge momentums and resonance from the head design. (hint do not grind down that silly little bump in the runner - it is there for a reason). Build your Cleveland for higher RPM and match everything up to that.

My favorite 351C set up for the street is 9.5:1, set up to run best at 8K with an automatic, big stall converter, plus a deeeeeeeep rear end gear setting in a well layed out rear suspension that actually hooks up. This results in a well behaved and bullet proof engine that will run in the low 12's or high 11's in our big Mustangs. What more can you ask for?

Put this in a Pinto or Maverick and it gets stupid scary.

Regardless I would save as much $ as possible for rear suspension mods - or tires, lots of tires LOL!.

Paul

 
Good post Paul. Your info seems to match what George Pence states in his 351C build articles.

Jeff, I recommend reading those articles if you haven't already. I think they have copied into our wiki section, if not they are on the pantera site.

 
I have read them and a few more to boot. I can't say I am 100% sure on the oil pump, and it is one of the few parts I haven't ordered. I was told by MME racing that I could run either standard or high volume with a larger pan, but that the oiling mods that are generally discussed such as restrictors and plugging and modifying the passages, really do more to increase pressure at the gauge, than anywhere else.

I have a couple of weeks before that decision is finalized.

I need to verify with Lunati, that I need to change my distributor gear and I will add a second pin to it when I do.

I settled on 11:1 compression-I have access to 110 octane race gas and tend to add 4 gallons to every tank of premium.

 
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Other than using the HV oil pump, the only thing that stands out to me is the 11:1 compression ratio and ability to run pump gas. I suppose it depends on the dynamic compression ratio but I don't have enough brain power left to run that calc today - so you're on your own with that one.

Additional reading if interested: "How to Rebuild Ford Engines" by Tom Monroe. A little dated but very accurate info for the 351C-460 engines. I have the 1993 copy.

 
Keep in mind that my car is not intended to be a daily driver. I think you will find, however, that with the lift and duration on the cam that dynamic compression will be more than reasonable. I don't expect to be able to run on pure pump gas.

 
Jeff, sounds like your going to be spending a lot of cash on rear tires...but, it is common sense knowledge that an engine is designed to work a certain way from factory, so when you change one thing it changes something else. Return passages are sized to allow a certain amount of flow. If you change pressure, you need to increase return. but, the bad and expensive part is all the crank, rod, cam, and bearing passages have to be sized according to the increase in flow. If you don't do everything, your efforts are futile and you can wash out your bearings...just saying...I'm with you on the weekend toy as mine will be the same way

 
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..........

I need to verify with Lunati, that I need to change my distributor gear and I will add a second pin to it when I do.

I settled on 11:1 compression-I have access to 110 octane race gas and tend to add 4 gallons to every tank of premium.

.........

Never heard of adding a second pin to a Lunati crank - They designed the cam to handle the loads so I bet its ok like it is.

I have not priced a lunati race cam in years but they were not cheap back in the day and I bet they are still expensive. Is Chet Herbert still in business? Cheap and good!

I have several used 351 race cams laying around but unless you are running 13:1, 6K stall, and deep rear end gears they will not work for you. I have a few that are clutch only that are even more insane.

Not that you have to share but I would love to know what $$ you end up in the engine, trans, and rear end when you start it for the first time. I am betting it will be well over $7,000.00.

Sad that all of this has become obsolete technology. Happy that the new stuff is so much fun!

Paul of MO

 
the extra pin is added to the distributor drive gear-not the crank nor the cam Sheared off distributor gears do occur from time to time and it is a way to prevent that from happening.

I've rebuilt the rear end with all new bearings and seals and new 31 spline axles with a fresh 3.89 ring and pinion on a track loc differential.

I'm running an upgraded T-45 5 speed with a lakewood bellhousing and a kevlar clutch.

The Lunati cam price was not bad, the lifters and springs brought the overall price up though and none of the good stuff can be called cheap.

If I can finish the engine alone for 6 grand (Not including prior head work) then I'll be fairly satisfied.

I do suggest buying stock in BF Goodrich ;)

This is my last major engine build, while I might swap in a stock engine in a daily driver for my kids, I won't be doing this again for myself, so I am doing what I can to make it not only right, but to make it the way I want it.

 
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