The Dodge Van is...ALIVE!

[cudak888]

120,000 miles, and a daily driver in the family since my grandmother bought it with 65,000.

Something long ago had made me suspect that the previous owner's 65,000 miles had not involved many oil changes (if any) - particularly as we've had the oil sump changed twice by a local shop (didn't have time to drop the pan myself). We've done oil changes every 2,000 miles at this point, and it took 3 years to get absolutely clean oil after 200 miles of driving.

I should have heard alarm bells right then and there, but didn't have the time to think about it (neither did I want to - Ford bias!).

Well, now I know.

Today, I chose to do the intake plenum gasket, suspecting a leak. Instead, I found the world's most cooked-up Magnum 3.9L. EVER. Frankly, it beats some of the worst Magnum 5.2/LA 318's that I've seen online:

And yes, that is a lizard in there (given his appearance though, he probably fell in from the outside of the manifold):

Would have been nice if one of those shop SOB's had let me known that it looks like this when they tore apart the bottom end.

If anything though, this is one hell of a testimonial to the pushrod V8. I'd like to see some piece-of-crap VVT engine pull this off. Never!

-Kurt

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

Do you intend to try and clean it up at all? I fear any attempt will result in dislodged crud eating up bearings or clogging oil passages. On the other hand, if it were mine, I'd probably remove all of the crud I could with plastic scrapers, spoons or whatever I could find and flush everything with lots of kerosene (Like 3-4 gallons) I think the engine is doomed, but as you say it is a testament to what an engine can survive.

 

[matrixx]

Reminds me of a few customers of mine who run dino oil for their so called "7, 500" mile oil changes and think its perfectly fine because that's what the hyundai salesman told them. I cringe everytime I drain those engines with what I expect to come out a 7.3L powerstroke.

Sent from my SCH-S960L using Tapatalk

 

[caspianwendell]

Dad had a 350 that he ran quaker state in for years and it looked even worse than that.

 

[cudak888]

Dad had a 350 that he ran quaker state in for years and it looked even worse than that.

I'm sure 350's have the lion's share in looking like this. Chevy owners and all that

-Kurt

 

[caspianwendell]

Dad had a 350 that he ran quaker state in for years and it looked even worse than that.

I'm sure 350's have the lion's share in looking like this. Chevy owners and all that

-Kurt

Mine don't but, I keep the oil changed

 

[woodsnake]

What oil was used in that motor, any idea?

 

[MeZapU]

You should see what a turbocharged Mini Cooper S head looks like after its recommended 12000 mile oil change interval.

 

[luxstang]

Just to chime in on the subject of what an engine can take, here's my story: when the original 302 was rebuilt a year after I got the car, the guy put two of the crankshaft bearing on the wrong way.

Those bearings have one chamfered edge and in this case the bottom and the top chamfer were facing opposite sides.

Many people have told me that in this case the engine would barely crank at all but I drove it for 7 years and put 74000 km (46000 miles) on it.

All that time I would regularly push it to 95 mph on the freeway and keep it there for long trips like driving all the way down to Italy or up north to the German coast.

The two bearings were almost half eaten away after those 7 years but the engine never showed any sign of damage and was as reliable as it could ever be.

 

[cudak888]

Seeing as I have no choice but to give this thing a shot (right now, I don't have anything else good enough for a daily driver, nor would it be good financial timing to buy another van), I did the following today:

Intake was mildly cleaned up and put back together. The inside was soot heaven, so most of the work was cleaning up the inside, rather than bothering with the outside.

In addition to a few replacement bits, I threw on a good used throttle body from a 3.9 off a Dakota, because some ***** at one of the local shops thought to adjust the idle on the original throttle body by taking out the welch plug that keeps the throttle plates at the factory minimum setting and adjusting it. That's a big no-no on the Magnums:

Here's the block valley after giving it a 4-hour cleaning. I stuck oil-impregnated rags in the valley casting holes to seal off the camshaft (after removing the roller tappet retainer), then went to town chipping all the crap off with a razor blade and the hub-end of a bicycle spoke. I kept the tip of a shop vacuum shoved over my fingers at all times to suck all the particles out. Shot it with Marvel Mystery oil to help out the lifters (if it'll do anything, really) and closed it up:

Notice the area under the front galley ports, especially the one on the right. Oil had been crudding up there a whole inch up.

With any luck, a partial drain in the morning, a quick in-place run to purge everything, and a pair of oil changes (plus a few in the coming weeks) just might do the trick.

What oil was used in that motor, any idea?

We've always run multigrade 10W-30 in it, with exception to straight 30W for one run, but not for more than 700 miles or so.

One thing though - the van never came up to temperature all this time - always ran at about 160 degrees. I was not surprised when I found NO thermostat in it. A Prestone-badged Robert Shaw went in it today.

Mind you, in addition to that, I found the PCV inlet port on the intake clogged solid from the outside end of the port to the inside. The PCV (replaced long ago) wasn't doing a thing. Should have done the finger test on the new one too - it would have failed it.

Probably contributed to the problem, but getting to the thermostat requires 70% of the disassembly that I needed to get to the intake plenum.

Just to chime in on the subject of what an engine can take, here's my story: when the original 302 was rebuilt a year after I got the car, the guy put two of the crankshaft bearing on the wrong way.

Those bearings have one chamfered edge and in this case the bottom and the top chamfer were facing opposite sides.

Many people have told me that in this case the engine would barely crank at all but I drove it for 7 years and put 74000 km (46000 miles) on it.

All that time I would regularly push it to 95 mph on the freeway and keep it there for long trips like driving all the way down to Italy or up north to the German coast.

The two bearings were almost half eaten away after those 7 years but the engine never showed any sign of damage and was as reliable as it could ever be.

I love stories like these. I know engines are a precise piece of engineering, but when you need them at all costs (such as my van), there's always the chance that they'll pull through for you - even under rough conditions.

Fingers crossed that the van will recover.



-Kurt

 

[mdan575]

I won't say it goes for all engines because some are alot more fragile than others. The big three stuck with the small blocks for alot of years for a damn good reason. I have seen them take alot of abuse and run year after year with duct tape, JB Weld and bailing twine..............

 

[cudak888]

It's alive - and running better than ever.

Here's today's work. Excuse the profuse use of gasket shellac, but I was not risking a leak with all this stuff buried behind the accessory bracket where it can't be adjusted later.

Sure enough, the only thing that started leaking during the pressure test was the lower radiator hose - installed by the same lousy shop I've previously referenced. Pulled it, dried it, shellaced it, and put a stainless hose clamp on it. That was the end of the leak.

Front end. I didn't have time to make things beautiful either, so other than some quick scrubbing, this is how it'll stay.

All closed up. Dumped the oil that was in it, found some particles, but not much. Did an oil change with 25% Delo 400 30W diesel oil in it, and I'll run it like that for a while.

Idles good (though the computer often steps in here and there as it learns the new driving habits; drives me NUTS), runs good, no bearing noise of death or anything of the sort. I'm quite lucky.

Even got the lifters to shut up - one on the RH in particular would occasionally suck air (not surprising, given the state of things in there) and tick a bit.

-Kurt

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

glad it's working well for you.

 

[cudak888]

It better. This clunker is what's going to drag the Mustang to the paint shop.

-Kurt

 

[TheJ]

Glad to hear you got your van back up and running.

 

[auron73mach1]

wish I would have seen this earlier. on the mid 90's magnum 3.9 if you cut out the wall in the middle of the air intake manifold you can free up a good bit of horse power... some on the dodge forum claim up to about 20 hp or so.... A.D.D. moment get 3.9 injectors and put them in the 5.2 you see some gains as well

 

[cudak888]

wish I would have seen this earlier. on the mid 90's magnum 3.9 if you cut out the wall in the middle of the air intake manifold you can free up a good bit of horse power... some on the dodge forum claim up to about 20 hp or so.... A.D.D. moment get 3.9 injectors and put them in the 5.2 you see some gains as well

In other words, grind the bar separating the throttle ports, correct? Never heard of that one. I've heard of using the V8 TB though.

Don't you mean 5.2 injectors in the 3.9?

-Kurt

P.S.: The late-model vehicle owners at DodgeTalk drive me up the wall. Not only do they often give wrong advice (one fellow suggested Gunking the engine immediately - do I really want to clog my sump again?), but they act as if metallurgy and common sense do not apply to used trailer hitches: http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=461281&highlight=trailer+hitch+used. Give me a break - I've seen tons of cold welds on production hitches - new and old - and the internet has enough horror stories about new hitches cracking from cold welds or overly heated welds. Fact is, you have to carefully examine a hitch before purchase, and go from there. I'd be more concerned about the tow vehicle's framerails and rated towing capacity. These fellows don't want to believe there is a grey area between black and white.

 

[auron73mach1]

nope the 3.9 has a higher flow rate injector (confused me to) I always used dodgeforum.com and it is called a kegger mod also works for the v6 http://dodgeforum.com/forum/2nd-gen-ram-tech/145873-kegger-intake-mod-diy.html

 

[cudak888]

FYI folks - this job held her together for another 4,000 miles (124,000), but she started burning a quart of oil every 4 days, followed by the sump sucking crud again. Top end started clattering like no tomorrow; less than 10 pounds of oil pressure on the top end.

She's dead. Looking for another 3.9L now.

-Kurt