There and back again.

[Go Time]

72HCODE Some people would have kept that information to themselves as to not make themselves look bad in a public forum. You had the courage to share your mistakes and warn others not to make the same. I have to do all of the above listed projects and have taken your advice to heart. Thanks for your courage and caring enough about others to warn them. Dennis

 

[droptop73]

Thanks for the thread.

 

[Boss1Ray]

Everybody give 72HCODE rep points for this... He deserves it....

Priceless insight for us at his expense.....

Thanks man ....

Great idea Jim! Done.

Thanks for the thread.

+1

Ray

 

[LCB1]

Oh Crap! My SS lines just got delivered last week. Does it help that I'm installing 4 wheel disc with new master?

 

[Luke]

Oh Crap! My SS lines just got delivered last week. Does it help that I'm installing 4 wheel disc with new master?

I would be sending it back. Not worth the pain

 

[John J]

I used classic tube steel line that I bought from NPD. There an NPD branch about 15 miles from my house so I buy a lot of parts from them. The rear end line was bent really well and fit like a glove. The brake line from the front to the back was a pain in the ass. We had to make several bends to install it. The quality of the tubing was good and so where flare nuts. We put it back togather and bleed the lines and found no leaks.

 

[72HCODE]

the system doesn't matter the problem is the hardened nature of the the stainless steel material. the cone will not bend under all that force.

the idea is the cone inside the fitting stretches the mating surface of the the hose over the cone, the hose has some angle in it from the double flair tool.

it is the stretching over the cone under pressure that is what seals the system without a gasket.

maybe its possible to anneal the end of the hose, that means applying heat to soften it, however heating stainless makes it loose chromium, chromium is what makes stainless magical and resist rust. i know there is a special process using an Envelope with carbon and chromium you surround a stainless hardened part with it and then you have to heat it to 800 degrees and it softens.

anybody really willing to do all that for a brake line hose that can just use mild steel instead.

truth is the maker of the stainless lines should either use a softer grade of stainless or anneal the end of the lines for you after manufacture so you have the benefit of stainless rust protection and the softness of a mild steel line.

its a case of right idea wrong material type used.

now a galvanized steel hose is going to have very good rust protection on its own. i bought a galvanized steel fuel tank, no additional external protection, and it hasn't rusted in 8 years.

 

[Kit Sullivan]

This is a great post...wish I would have come to it sooner. It is so true, there are many "new and improved" items offered for older cars. They all sound so awesome, but lots of times offer no real functional advantage over the stock OEM stuff.

Better motor oil and other fluids: thats a given, those are better. Electronic ignition? Yep, better.

But, many other items just work on the owners emotions better than they work on the car. Modern paint? Easier to use, more durable, but...if you take care of the old-style single stage enamel, it will serve you well.

Bushings? Poly is a known noisy irritant, but many install them anyway so thier car handles like a true "track day" car...or so they think. Poly on an otherwise stock setup gives little or no noticeable improvement. I used "duromter" ( i think its called) on mine...who knows if it is better than rubber.

I believe in minor improvements to existing components. None of the rack-n-pinion swaps, fuel injection mods, or 4-wheel disc conversions for me.

 

[caspianwendell]

Oh Crap! My SS lines just got delivered last week. Does it help that I'm installing 4 wheel disc with new master?

I talked to the one customer today who said he ended up taking his master, porp valve, and all connecting fittings to a machine shop and had the proper angles cut into them, and he said that fixed his leaks. So that may be worth checking into if you gotta have stainless.

 

[LCB1]

Oh Crap! My SS lines just got delivered last week. Does it help that I'm installing 4 wheel disc with new master?

I talked to the one customer today who said he ended up taking his master, porp valve, and all connecting fittings to a machine shop and had the proper angles cut into them, and he said that fixed his leaks. So that may be worth checking into if you gotta have stainless.

Thanks, I'll look in to it. Sounds like it would easier just to send them back.

 

[72HCODE]

so the repop Master cyl to prop valve hoses that are sold are incorrect for 71- mid 72 cars. shafer has the wrong fittings on it. Now they had the correct fittings on the stainless but not the mild steel versions.

they have 73 fittings on those.

So like a ******* i took out my flair tool that i have not used in 10 years and proceeded to screw up and ruin a replacement brake hose *face palm* so now i will just make a dame brake hose line myself instead of going to suppliers thinking I've saved myself time.

Interesting experiment i conducted with the ruined mild steel line.

So after i screwed up, i practiced making double flairs on the remaining hose. I bolted it into the master and noted the deformation that occurred at very low Torque, it was amazing how easy the mild steel gave and sealed the double flair on the cone, while the stainless didn't budge, augh i feel so stupid, gotta learn from mistakes.

 

[mjlan]

Thanks for sharing your experience.

 

[1972MustangSVH]

steel? stainless steel? Look out, if you want to go trick check this out.

NICOPP

DOT APPROVED

FOR BRAKE AND GENERAL

AUTOMOTIVE APPLICATIONS

NiCopp® is a nickel-copper alloy brake tubing that meets SAE Standard J1047 and ISO 4038, meeting all international and U.S. requirements for brake tubing. This alloy is approximately 9.2% nickel, 1.4% iron, 0.8% manganese, and 88.6% copper. Under the UNS system, this alloy is designated as UNS C70600. NiCopp® therefore has the strength and structural integrity of steel lines, but with the added benefit of being much more corrosion resistant. NiCopp® is also easier to bend and form than steel tubing. Nickel-copper, commonly referred to as '90-10 copper', has been used on several European vehicle brake systems since the 1970's, including: Volvo, Audi, Porsche, and Aston Martin.

NiCopp® has been used on hydraulic/fluid transfer systems on vehicles where steel lines and tubing are commonly used. This includes brake, fuel and transmission systems. NiCopp® is considered the super-premium brand in brake lines and should be considered where the underbody of the vehicle is subjected to the harshest environments, where the longest life-span for lines is required, and/or where direct OEM replacement is desired.

• NiCopp® Does Not Rust or Corrode

• DOT Approved for Hydraulic Brake Systems

• Bends 58% Easier than Steel Tubing

• Available in Coils of 25', 50', and 100'

• Finished Lines Available for Domestic & Import

• Black Oxide Fittings 2X Corrosion Resistance

NiCopp® lines and tubing meet the following specifications:

SAEJ1047

ISO 4038

SAEJ1650

DIN 74234

BS2871

 

[72HCODE]

The saga continued......

I bought a 2nd repop master and shafer mild steel lines.

the master comes and there is a defect with one of the ports for the line.

the shafer lines come and have incorrect fittings for 71-72 cars.

I cut the shafer line to change the nut a try to make a flair with my crap 30$ flair set. It fails miserably, ruins the Hose in the process and renders me back at square one.

I research flair makers and discover you can't get a good one for under 100$. Long story short my call to shafer didn't go well.

I buy a rather expensive flair tool from summit.

and have to buy a roil of Brake hose.

and i give up on the repops and order a Refurb original master,

so i had to make my own brake lines as well.

finally all back together and now its wait and see if the leak is gone.

shout out to the:

"K Tool Professional Brake Flaring Tool Kits 70081" this really is a nice unit. i was making professional flairs in less then 2 minutes not kidding.

now i have the option of making lines for other people or other cars as well. the tool can also do stainless if wanted.

i found out there is also 45 degree and 37 degree flairs, 37 is suppose to be for AN fittings and 45 is the industry standard. 37 requires some more specialized tooling.

anyway,,, you forget how annoying this stuff is, well now its up on jack stands again waiting for the next project i get to redo again because of mistakes last time...

 

[turtle5353]

All the brake lines I do now I use the Nickel/copper alloy. This stuff bends with incredible ease and a monkey can make a perfect flare in it. I have a decent flaring tool but not the high dollar ones and it works great. I have a set of spring tubing benders and some regular tubing benders for making nice tight curves. Even if your flare is slightly off the nickel/copper alloy will seal easily because of its softness but it is still plenty strong enough and DOT approved. I do not use anything else these days for ANY brakes jobs. I buy it by the 50ft roll from Napa or autozone. I do a lot of sidework in the garage and use it all the time on jeeps and work trucks. And it looks decent too. Save a lot of headache over stripped fittings.

Also the mild steel lines you buy at the autoparts store with fittings already on are almost impossible to re-flare after you cut them. They are usually so hard that the flare will split or your flaring tool will not be able to hold the line tight enough to make the flare and it will just push it down in the clamp of the flare tool. Ask me how I know I feel your pain man! I have battled brake lines many times.

Good luck!

 

[cudak888]

Thank you for pointing this out. The cast steel and brass fittings used in the average brake line - such as in our cars - are yet again another example of perfected simplicity in engineering. The ductility of the mild steel lines were engineered to be part of the system, ensuring a proper seal each time. This is why the nickel/copper alloy works too, though - DOT accepted or not - I wonder just how much pressure it can take before the hydraulic fluid stretches the tube from the inside.

At any rate, changing the line to something harder just doesn't work - not unless the entire system is redesigned down to the brake cylinders to accept a different connector that doesn't rely on interference fit.

-Kurt

 

[Totalled]

Dang. My kit from mustangsunlimited fit well and sealed without much issue. I think I had to snug up two fittings. I can't remember if it was from inline or classic tube.

http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=MU1042+01

 

[72HCODE]

The 71 stainless complete kit had the correct fitting, the mild individual master to prop lines they sell are incorrect for 71-72.

The fittings for 73 changed the front disc fitting to a larger flair nut to match the drum fitting. 71-mid 72 the disc fitting was small, and drum large.

The shafer brake mild hose was much harder then the replacement brake hose I got from summit racing.

So far the lines are sealed but I think the new master is still leaking from the back.

 

[72HCODE]

Hopefully this saga is over. I finished the exhaust change, bleed the brakes 2 times and my vacuum brake bleeder broke, arugh. Any way went for a drive I came back and didn't see any leaks have to keep an eye on it for a while to make sure.

Hurray.

 

[72HCODE]

Seems this is not over as this master is weep leaking from the rear seal.