Fair enough, and totally understandable. Like I said, I'm not sure what kind of deals have been struck, so I'm not bashing anybody's efforts or anything. I'm just not seeing it taking all that much time to get some metal squared away and paint applied.
Really ? There is a big difference in doing restoration work vs insurance work,,Insurance work your usually working on new stuff with oem panels & the idea is to "beat the clock" So that 4 hour r&r (remove & replace) the left frt fender on a new lexus that the insurance paid for better be done in 2-3 hours tops..It's all a numbers game with insurance & very few insurance jobs are complete repaints...Restoration work on the other hand is usually dismantling a older car to it's shell..repairing or replacing worn parts..restoring or replacing rusted sheet metal with AFTER MARKET ill fitting panels that require modification to fit..Completly painting the car..Big big difference..There's many reasons why 80% of so called restoration shops can't get a car out the door in a timely fashion..Some of the biggies that I see is under quoting the job..Poor money management..Takes your deposit..does some work to make you happy..spends your money..than does the same thing to another customer & so on..so you have an endless cycle of cars in varying stages..where the shop is always hopping around working on the car who's just deposited "fresh money..The real bottom line is that to work on a restoration job FULL TIME you need to pay my hourly rate per man per man hour..Plain & simple..Successful resto shops operate this way & get a car out in a timely fashion...
( I'd be more than happy to work on your car FULL TIME or put a man on it full time as long as your paying my hourly rate of $50.00 per hour..Otherwise we need to work on insurance jobs etc. to pay the bills & overhead (the above is an example of what your seeing in 80% of the shops BECAUSE they aren't charging an hourly rate to keep a man on your car full time.)
There are different levels of restoration & as example look at my car..I'm now in the process of doing the final gaping of all my panels for a perfect 3/16" gap all around the car..The factory mounting points & panels won't allow for a perfect 3/16" all around..So that requires MAKING every edge by either cutting it back or adding welding rod to the edge then grinding to shape..I'm estimating about 200 hours just to do that..Thats about 4 weeks of shop time..just for panel gaps..
I just started today doing the edges..the cut backs require making a slice on the front edge about every inch than "tacking" that slice to the frame of the panel so the skin doesn't separate when you cut off the edge..Grinding the tacks smooth..then adding metal with the mig..then grinding back to your desired gap..So you can see how a top level restoration takes a whole lot more than insurance work on a new car..In no way am I sticking up for shops..I'm just explaining some of the reasons why you see what you do & why it takes them so long..JMHO
I totally get what you're saying, Scott - I really do. And please remember that I have nothing but total awe and respect for you, your accomplishments, expertise, and advice. My problem is that that when someone comes to an agreement on what it'll take to get the job done, and then they don't do it (i.e. pull off my job to do others, taking longer than agreed upon, then demanding more money [outside of the agreement] to finish it) - that's "dishonest" in my book. I've been burned too many times in the past by so-called 'experts' doing sub-standard work while charging premium coin for things I've discovered I can simply do myself (with the right conditions, knowledge, tools, and patience).
I also understand that there are so many different levels of restoration as well. Yours, obviously, is top-tier. Mine however, is somewhat lower - I'm planning on 'daily driver,' so I'm not looking for a 5-figure paint job. I'm hoping to keep it under $5K, as a matter of fact, because I'm realistic in knowing that I'll be repainting it (along with some body work) later on as a result of other people dinging and otherwise neglecting my car in the parking lots. My car will never be as valuable as a 'survivor,' full-on restoration or high-end restomod - I'm realistic in that sense. I'm also practical... while I want to get it as nice as possible to avoid any major reconstructive surgery in the future, body & paint seems 'superficial' to me, in the sense that minor repairs can and will be necessary over the long run of any car that's not garaged and shown/driven only on nice days. If I'd wanted a high-end restomod show car, I wouldn't have started out with such a turd in the first place, and instead sought out someone like you rather than take all this on myself.
Basically, when I bring my car to the shop, I expect them to know what they are looking at with lots of discussion and disclosure as to what's been done and what's required. I'm not going to expect them to completely tear apart everything I've already repaired/replaced - I'm expecting they should only have to skim coat, smooth, and paint (as I plan on getting all of my seams smoothed and panels/doors aligned beforehand). Based on that discussion, they are expected to come up with what's fair to them to complete the work that's required - within a timely manner (they are the experts, after all). I don't mind paying more for the job to be done right and in a timely manner. But I do not want my car occupying a corner of the shop (or back lot) for months on end, with them having to redo something they've already done because of the elements or time taking its toll. I don't mind them pulling off my job to help with others now and then because I understand that has to happen - but not to a point where my job takes a back seat. But if my car is promised to be done in 4-6 weeks, and winds up sitting there for months while others are coming in and going back out as I'm still paying for mine to be worked on (read that: stored until they get around to it) - that's unacceptable. Nobody should have to settle for poor management like that (which is exactly what it is). Just like with the insurance claims, the sooner they get my job done, the more money they'll make as I expect them to 'over-quote' me as well. If they tell me $5K, and it'll be done in 6 weeks, I'm OK with that... and if they finish sooner - better for everybody. If not - then I guess they had better keep me in the loop and we'll have to work something out (within reason, that is). Just like with any other quote/contract: Why should I have to pay more if they can't deliver what they promise?
My hat is off to anybody who can effectively do body work and paint with good results. But honestly, I've done some of each on smaller scales with somewhat better than satisfactory results... and if I can't get a good quality paint job (at least as good as the factory did) done within 4-6 weeks for less than $5K, I'll do it myself.
Sorry for the rant and crapping on the thread - I just have some strong feelings about people being promised certain things, and having their good nature taken advantage of (which is essentially the story of my life). I'm not crapping on anybody's efforts, decisions, deals, or what works for them, either.
Ken thanks for the compliment..& very good question..I'm not really doing a concours correct restoration..More of a resto-mod (they seem to be bringing more money anyway these days)although I want the car to look some what stock at first glance..but when you look close thats where the jaw dropping craftsmanship subtle enhancements are going to make you say WOW..
Not to mention that when someone who knows these things see your work, you don't have to hang your head in shame because the door gaps look like crap. Not every job requires this meticulous attention to detail but all my upper jobs get it. Also a certain amount of wave in panels are acceptable in most shops, but not this one. If your hauling material to a job, kids to school, or groceries from wal-mart, (insurance) you don't need to pay the money for this kind of work. But, if your entering your car at local shows, remember that me, or scott will see every flaw, and short cut that was taken. One car out of 100 around here has what I call good bodywork done on it, and some that I laugh uncontrollably over. If you want WOW factor, it takes time.
Then I'm sure you can also tell the difference between a high-end 'car show car,' and the guy who has a 'nice' daily driver entered in the local show (that didn't have a high-end restoration done) - he's just there for the fun of it and not seriously expecting to take home trophies or anything... he just happens to have the only '71 Mach 1 within 200 miles.
Does he get props for bringing a non-running rust-bucket back to life, or looked down on because the door gaps aren't perfect? Sorry to over-dramatize, but I gotta ask these things.
The shop that I took my Mustang to is not a restoration shop. It is a body shop that does collision work. I chose it not only because it is 5 minutes from my house but because they have some real car lovers there that work on their own projects after hours. The shop owner himself has several classic cars and when I talked to him about the Mustang he told me right up front that his collision work would take precedence over my car BUT if I was not on a tight schedule (which I am not) that he would have his best guys work on it when time permitted (as filler work). The guy doing my body work has a beautiful '57 Chevy Bel Air of his own that he is working on. These guys take no short cuts and in the end that is who I want working on my car. I am not getting a $20,000 restoration or anything so my car won't look as good as Scott's when done but it will be a regular driver and will be entered in local shows. The shop has a good reputation around here and the owner spent years building that reputation. I trust that the finished Mach 1 will meet with my approval - even after nearly two years of being in the shop.
Totally understand, Steve. As long as you're happy with the deal you've struck, that's all that really matters at the end of the day. Again, sorry to crap on your thread - I really can't wait to see how your car comes out... I'm sure it'll be awesome and everything you're hoping for.
Don't make us wait too much longer though.
