What's the deal with small plastic parts costing an arm and a leg?

[tocruise]

I bought a '73 mach 1 about a month ago (my first classic!), and she needs a lot of work. One thing that seems particularly unique to this type of car that I've never seen before is how expensive small plastic parts are. I know "expensive" is subjective, but surely we can all agree that this is nuts:

• $200 for both small plastic headlight doors
• $140, for a small plastic turn signal ($280 for both sides)
• $200+ for the complete grille molding (yes, just the molding), which is 4 pieces of plastic. The grille itself, despite being multiple sizes bigger, more complex, and more plastic, costs less
• And you better pray you don't need any of the console parts, because they can easily run you over $1000-$5000 total (The arm rest alone is $800+, and the clock alone is $100-$300)

But yet I can buy:

• 2 full floor plans made of steel for $120?
• An entire rear steel bumper for $140?
• And in most cases, you can find very similar plastic parts for other years/makes for a 10th of the price of the Ford ones.

I just don't get it. It all seems like the numbers are being plucked out of thin air. You get these huge, complex, industrual, steel parts to cost significantly less than some small plastic parts? And it can't be because they're plastic, when you can find other makes/models of very similar plastic parts for nowhere near as much.

So what gives?

 

[giantpune]

Injection molding and stamping steel is more up front cost than machining something out of aluminum. The cost of the molds and dies is pretty high. Thats not an issue for an auto manufacturer who is planning to sell 3 million cars. They spread the cost of the molds out across all those cars plus the spare parts.

That was ford 50yr ago. Nobody is making huge runs of spare parts for our cars these days. If some taiwanese factory has to make molds to reproduce a part, that mold still costs them a lot of money. Then they are selling smaller numbers of parts, so they need to jack up the cost to cover the initial investment. Same story with stamped metal like the grille trim.

There are some parts where the aftermarket has acquired the original ford tooling. They are still doing very small production runs which runs the price up.

And then the fact that they are running a business. They will charge whatever the market is willing to pay. For parts to doll up a classic car, old retired dudes have a lot of money to throw around. They know there are grandpas out there willing to pay $200 for the headlight rings, so thats what they sell them for.

And parts that are "finished" and "externally visible" will have a higher rejection rate. Floor panels, and other body panels in general, it is understood that they will need work/bondo/paint. So they can be ugly. Grilles and headlight pieces are expected to look perfect right out of the box. They end up scrapping more of them which runs up the cost.

 

[Sheriff41]

There are several members on here that sell used parts. Sometimes buying used parts and restoring them is the way to go. Plus you're getting original Ford parts rather than a reproduction piece.

 

[tpj71mach]

I bought a '73 mach 1 about a month ago (my first classic!), and she needs a lot of work. One thing that seems particularly unique to this type of car that I've never seen before is how expensive small plastic parts are. I know "expensive" is subjective, but surely we can all agree that this is nuts:

• $200 for both small plastic headlight doors
• $140, for a small plastic turn signal ($280 for both sides)
• $200+ for the complete grille molding (yes, just the molding), which is 4 pieces of plastic. The grille itself, despite being multiple sizes bigger, more complex, and more plastic, costs less
• And you better pray you don't need any of the console parts, because they can easily run you over $1000-$5000 total (The arm rest alone is $800+, and the clock alone is $100-$300)

But yet I can buy:

• 2 full floor plans made of steel for $120?
• An entire rear steel bumper for $140?
• And in most cases, you can find very similar plastic parts for other years/makes for a 10th of the price of the Ford ones.

I just don't get it. It all seems like the numbers are being plucked out of thin air. You get these huge, complex, industrual, steel parts to cost significantly less than some small plastic parts? And it can't be because they're plastic, when you can find other makes/models of very similar plastic parts for nowhere near as much.

So what gives?

I feel your pain, this was an adjustment for me as well when I first started my Mach 1 resto. I have completed frame off restorations like I am in the middle of on my Mustang, on my other cars also. I have found that the cost of parts was significantly less, but those are all Chevy's. I thought maybe it is because I restored those cars between 2 and 8 years ago, so I price shopped similar parts for comparable cars and the prices are still significantly lower for a Camaro than my Mustang. I believe it is because for example my 69 Camaro almost everything is being reproduced. You could literally build a 69 Camaro from a catalog with no need for non-repro parts. Most often there are multiple suppliers producing the same parts at different price points and quality levels. You often have a choice of a few suppliers, this breeds competition and that is healthy. One supplier builds an inferior part people figure it out and buy from the guy that makes the better quality parts. One supplier is charging more than a fair price and no one buys from them, this tends to keep the prices fair and the quality up. I have honestly say that I have bought some re-pop parts for this Mustang that I have returned or tossed because they were crap. I have learned there are manufacturers and suppliers to stay away from as I have progressed through this project.
Unfortunately, not everything is available for our cars as reproductions, and when it is there is most often only one supplier making it. So if you don't like their price or their quality, why should they care, they are the only game in town. As Sheriff stated, a lot of times the buying and refurbishing or refinishing of a used part is often the best way to go when you need a part for one of our cars.
The other pill that is hard to swallow, is that I purchased my restorable 69 Camaro for about the same as I paid for my Mustang. It will end up costing me more to restore it, approximately $10K more, and the Mustang will be worth $25k less when it is completed. It is definitely a labor of love to own and restore one of our cars. I didn't make the decision to buy and restore my car as a financial decision, I had one in high school and I loved it and have always loved them and wanted another one. I didn't realize the cost difference when I purchased the car and started the restoration but it would not have stopped me from doing it.

 

[tocruise]

There are several members on here that sell used parts. Sometimes buying used parts and restoring them is the way to go. Plus you're getting original Ford parts rather than a reproduction piece.

Does seem to be the way. I do try to do this when I can. I've already bought a couple of used parts and I'm happy with them.

I feel your pain, this was an adjustment for me as well when I first started my Mach 1 resto. I have completed frame off restorations like I am in the middle of on my Mustang, on my other cars also. I have found that the cost of parts was significantly less, but those are all Chevy's. I thought maybe it is because I restored those cars between 2 and 8 years ago, so I price shopped similar parts for comparable cars and the prices are still significantly lower for a Camaro than my Mustang. I believe it is because for example my 69 Camaro almost everything is being reproduced. You could literally build a 69 Camaro from a catalog with no need for non-repro parts. Most often there are multiple suppliers producing the same parts at different price points and quality levels. You often have a choice of a few suppliers, this breeds competition and that is healthy. One supplier builds an inferior part people figure it out and buy from the guy that makes the better quality parts. One supplier is charging more than a fair price and no one buys from them, this tends to keep the prices fair and the quality up. I have honestly say that I have bought some re-pop parts for this Mustang that I have returned or tossed because they were crap. I have learned there are manufacturers and suppliers to stay away from as I have progressed through this project.
Unfortunately, not everything is available for our cars as reproductions, and when it is there is most often only one supplier making it. So if you don't like their price or their quality, why should they care, they are the only game in town. As Sheriff stated, a lot of times the buying and refurbishing or refinishing of a used part is often the best way to go when you need a part for one of our cars.
The other pill that is hard to swallow, is that I purchased my restorable 69 Camaro for about the same as I paid for my Mustang. It will end up costing me more to restore it, approximately $10K more, and the Mustang will be worth $25k less when it is completed. It is definitely a labor of love to own and restore one of our cars. I didn't make the decision to buy and restore my car as a financial decision, I had one in high school and I loved it and have always loved them and wanted another one. I didn't realize the cost difference when I purchased the car and started the restoration but it would not have stopped me from doing it.

This basicially sums up what I've been thinking/saying too. It's definitely a hard pill to swallow when you go from working on much cheaper cars to this! I get that certain parts are hard/costly to reproduce, but it just seems odd that some car parts seem to cost next to nothing, but then once it's made for this year of Ford it's suddenly way more. Like the wiring looms too. Wiring is very very cheap to make, and doesn't require any tooling. Wiring looms/harnesses for this year of Ford cost $600-$1100, yet if I want one for my Mazda it's only $150, or my Fiesta it's only $120.

I guess @giantpune really hit the nail on the head though; the market doesn't mind paying the current pricing, the demand is too small to encourage more competition, and tooling just costs too much for anyone else to try it.

You're certainly right about it being a labor of love. I'll get my ol' girl back on the road one of these days.

 

[Sheriff41]

Does seem to be the way. I do try to do this when I can. I've already bought a couple of used parts and I'm happy with them.


This basicially sums up what I've been thinking/saying too. It's definitely a hard pill to swallow when you go from working on much cheaper cars to this! I get that certain parts are hard/costly to reproduce, but it just seems odd that some car parts seem to cost next to nothing, but then once it's made for this year of Ford it's suddenly way more. Like the wiring looms too. Wiring is very very cheap to make, and doesn't require any tooling. Wiring looms/harnesses for this year of Ford cost $600-$1100, yet if I want one for my Mazda it's only $150, or my Fiesta it's only $120.

I guess @giantpune really hit the nail on the head though; the market doesn't mind paying the current pricing, the demand is too small to encourage more competition, and tooling just costs too much for anyone else to try it.

You're certainly right about it being a labor of love. I'll get my ol' girl back on the road one of these days.

If you still have your original wiring harnesses, check with member @midlife on here; he does some wiring harness refurbs.

 

[tocruise]

If you still have your original wiring harnesses, check with member @midlife on here; he does some wiring harness refurbs.

Someone else recommended him too, but I don't think I need his services yet. I did talk to 71fast too for a while, and he was incredibly nice and helpful.

The situation with the wiring harness in mine is a complete disaster lol. A lot of it is there, but disconnected, and/or replaced with 12g wires going into weird places and jerry-rigged connections. There's an large RV 7-pin connector in the glovebox that I ripped out, and the oil sender unit was connected to the reverse lights. I'm restoring it as close to factory as I can with the diagrams I've got, and so far so good, but man I have no idea what the previous owner was thinking.

 

[Hemikiller]

It's a basic fact that the 71-73s do not have the reproduction parts support or volume that the 65-70 cars enjoy, or the Camaro/Chevelle lines, so our parts costs are higher. It wasn't that long ago when you only had the option to use the 65-70 style floors, or had to buy NOS outer wheelhouses. Quarters were limited to skins only, and forget about a hood, fender or door. The repop 71-73 grilles are a bargain, go look up what a 70-71 Challenger or Cuda grill costs. The rest is obviously just at the whim of the manufacturer. Daniel Carpenter's parts are very reasonably priced, but a lot of the ACP stuff seems ridiculous. $150 each for those 73 grille mounted turn signal housings sure seems excessive.

 

[MikeGriese]

Does seem to be the way. I do try to do this when I can. I've already bought a couple of used parts and I'm happy with them.


This basicially sums up what I've been thinking/saying too. It's definitely a hard pill to swallow when you go from working on much cheaper cars to this! I get that certain parts are hard/costly to reproduce, but it just seems odd that some car parts seem to cost next to nothing, but then once it's made for this year of Ford it's suddenly way more. Like the wiring looms too. Wiring is very very cheap to make, and doesn't require any tooling. Wiring looms/harnesses for this year of Ford cost $600-$1100, yet if I want one for my Mazda it's only $150, or my Fiesta it's only $120.

I guess @giantpune really hit the nail on the head though; the market doesn't mind paying the current pricing, the demand is too small to encourage more competition, and tooling just costs too much for anyone else to try it.

You're certainly right about it being a labor of love. I'll get my ol' girl back on the road one of these days.

Wiring is a way different animal. Wire as a commodity is relatively cheap, but wire that matches the description in the vintage wiring diagrams isn't, depending on the pattern (dots, dashes, slashes, stripes, etc.). Another complexity is connectors. Modern harnesses all use the same connectors - essentially the Delco weatherproof shells and pins. These are inexpensive due to sheer volume. You can't really make vintage harnesses with these connectors. You still have to connect to vintage devices, and you have to be able to provide harnesses as subassemblies - not everyone wants to replace every wire in the car when they only need one harness.

And there is tooling for modern harnesses. Lots of it. Cutting to length, crimping pins, populating connectors, routing, wrapping, taping, cable tying and testing isn't done by hand for volume harnesses. Doing all that by hand is time consuming, and by extension, expensive.

 

[MikeGriese]

Every time someone says the price is "too high" means there is an opportunity for competition. The fact that there isn't anyone stepping up to provide that competition is telling.

 

[tocruise]

It's a basic fact that the 71-73s do not have the reproduction parts support or volume that the 65-70 cars enjoy, or the Camaro/Chevelle lines, so our parts costs are higher. It wasn't that long ago when you only had the option to use the 65-70 style floors, or had to buy NOS outer wheelhouses. Quarters were limited to skins only, and forget about a hood, fender or door. The repop 71-73 grilles are a bargain, go look up what a 70-71 Challenger or Cuda grill costs. The rest is obviously just at the whim of the manufacturer. Daniel Carpenter's parts are very reasonably priced, but a lot of the ACP stuff seems ridiculous. $150 each for those 73 grille mounted turn signal housings sure seems excessive.

I'm slowly realizing that, but this is all new to me so I had no idea.

Daniel Carpenter's parts are only sold wholesale from what I can tell, so surely the price varies depending on who you buy it from? The only store in my state that resells his merchandise is dreadful by all accounts. I've never been but apparently the owners are complete nutcases.

 

[MikeGriese]

I bought a '73 mach 1 about a month ago (my first classic!), and she needs a lot of work. One thing that seems particularly unique to this type of car that I've never seen before is how expensive small plastic parts are. I know "expensive" is subjective, but surely we can all agree that this is nuts:

• $200 for both small plastic headlight doors
• $140, for a small plastic turn signal ($280 for both sides)
• $200+ for the complete grille molding (yes, just the molding), which is 4 pieces of plastic. The grille itself, despite being multiple sizes bigger, more complex, and more plastic, costs less
• And you better pray you don't need any of the console parts, because they can easily run you over $1000-$5000 total (The arm rest alone is $800+, and the clock alone is $100-$300)

But yet I can buy:

• 2 full floor plans made of steel for $120?
• An entire rear steel bumper for $140?
• And in most cases, you can find very similar plastic parts for other years/makes for a 10th of the price of the Ford ones.

I just don't get it. It all seems like the numbers are being plucked out of thin air. You get these huge, complex, industrual, steel parts to cost significantly less than some small plastic parts? And it can't be because they're plastic, when you can find other makes/models of very similar plastic parts for nowhere near as much.

So what gives?

Do any of those parts have a Ford logo or part number molded into them? If so, Ford's licensing fees are probably contributing a significant amount to the price. There is a 1:12 scale model of the Ford GT 40 made by Trumpeter. The box that says the car is a Ford GT40 makes the price of the model 3x higher than an identical kit (same artwork, same contents - just not labeled Ford) with US Sportscar 24 hour endurance racing car on the front.

 

[tocruise]

Do any of those parts have a Ford logo or part number molded into them? If so, Ford's licensing fees are probably contributing a significant amount to the price. There is a 1:12 scale model of the Ford GT 40 made by Trumpeter. The box that says the car is a Ford GT40 makes the price of the model 3x higher than an identical kit (same artwork, same contents - just not labeled Ford) with US Sportscar 24 hour endurance racing car on the front.

I don't believe they do, but I'm sure that happens to some of the parts. All the parts I listed above have no logo on them.

 

[Hemikiller]

The reproduction grilles are usually Carpenter products. I installed their grille in my 71 back in '06, it was nearly identical to my original as they're using refurbished original Ford tooling. IIRC, it was $250 back then for the grille with the stainless moldings installed.

https://www.npdlink.com/product/grille-plastic-original-ford-tooling/106181/202904?year=1973

 

[Vern Cook]

I needed a fuel tank emissions canister and thought I was a winner when I found one for 50 bucks.

Set to work and the red ring is the first hole I spot welded. Took me about 2 hours. Only another 420 holes to go. Can't wait.

 

[Joeaus08]

Let's be real, the main reason they are so high is they know they can get the high price. Other than restoring original parts, where else will you get it? If you notice where there are multiple suppliers for certain parts, they are more reasonable. If you have like to design items and a computer guy, a 3D printer for plastic parts is an option.