WRONG MANIFOLD GASKETS INSTALLED

[rfiset]

First off Happy New Year to all! I just had my engine rebuilt. 1973 convertible 351 4V. After reinstallation of the motor and initial startup it was immediatly evident both manifolds were leaking. Turns out 2V manifold gaskets were used instead of 4V gaskets. It was an oversight by the shop doing the work and they had to dissasemble the exhaust and remove and replace both gaskets with the new engine in the car.
MY QUESTION: How long on average should a job like this take? (Separate the exhaust and remove both manifolds and the heat shield and replace the gaskets then reinstall everything with the motor in)
Would like to know when going over their invoice since I shouldn't have to pay for this mistake. Thanks!

 

[giantpune]

Which manifolds? Intake or exhaust?

Both exhaust gaskets can be done in under an hour.
Intake manifold can be done in under 2 hours but if you use RTV, it needs to sit up a day to cure before driving.

 

[Stanglover]

There mistake, their bill, period.
I had a problem when my engine was rebuilt, but that was just bolts not tightened properly. They picked the car up, took it back to the shop and fixed it free of charge.

 

[rfiset]

Thanks Giantpune. I was imagining the exhaust manifolds would be hard to get to with the motor installed due to space constraints? Was imagining many hours to do it at $130 hr.......Yikes!

 

[rfiset]

Thanks Stanglover. I will have to ask them if it was included in the bill or not. Was mentioned on the invoice but the labor charges were not broken down.

 

[giantpune]

Thanks Giantpune. I was imagining the exhaust manifolds would be hard to get to with the motor installed due to space constraints? Was imagining many hours to do it at $130 hr.......Yikes!

They are mildly inconvenient to get to on a 351. But this is how many of us install the engine. Set the manifolds or headers in the engine bay, then drop the engine down into place, and finally bolt up the manifolds to the engine.

Replacing the exhaust gaskets can be done without removing anything except the 8 bolts that hold the exhaust to the engine.

What would make this job harder is if you had old rusted bolts that may or may not snap off. That could add hours of work extracting broken off bolts. But since yours were recently installed, I'm assuming they won't run into any stuck bolts.

 

[rfiset]

They have a lift so I would think it is way easier to get to the exhaust manifold bolts from below. The manifolds were refinished and new bolts used so not rusted, etc. I had read somewhere it could take 8-10 hours to do both and could not get it out of my head. Feel better now about it now.

 

[kcmash]

Looks like someone was not paying attention. When you order a Cleveland gasket set it is naturally kitted for the 2v Cleveland, meaning no valley pan for intake side and the smaller exhaust gaskets. The bolt holes will line up, but for those not familiar with the 2v versus 4v port size differences on the Cleveland, they can easily put the wrong gasket on, especially when the 2v gaskets come in the kit.

Kcmash

 

[Sheriff41]

I've never used exhaust manifold gaskets on a 351C with stock exhaust manifolds.

 

[rfiset]

Yes kcmash. They did admit a 351c 2V gasket kit was sent and they did not pick up on it till after it was installed and leaked. Thanks for your response.

 

[giantpune]

Looks like someone was not paying attention. When you order a Cleveland gasket set it is naturally kitted for the 2v Cleveland, meaning no valley pan for intake side and the smaller exhaust gaskets. The bolt holes will line up, but for those not familiar with the 2v versus 4v port size differences on the Cleveland, they can easily put the wrong gasket on, especially when the 2v gaskets come in the kit.

Kcmash

This is what I was thinking. If they screwed up and put on 2V exhaust gaskets, did they also screw up and put on intake gaskets out of the same package. Like, did they buy a whole felpro gasket kit, but for the wrong motor.

Yes kcmash. They did admit a 351c 2V gasket kit was sent and they did not pick up on it till after it was installed and leaked. Thanks for your response.

I would ask to see a receipt from them showing where they had purchased the correct set of 4V intake gaskets. Otherwise, there's no way they have the correct ones on your car.

 

[basstrix]

You may see a charge on the invoice for the 4v gaskets. Seems like the Full Gasket Sets that are available, these days, only have the 2v gaskets in them. The charge for gaskets would be appropriate, but the labor to swap them should be on the shop's dime.

 

[Stanglover]

You may see a charge on the invoice for the 4v gaskets. Seems like the Full Gasket Sets that are available, these days, only have the 2v gaskets in them. The charge for gaskets would be appropriate, but the labor to swap them should be on the shop's dime.

I might settle for that if it were me, but actually, they screwed up the entire top end gasket job if they used 2V gaskets, they should pay imo.

 

[basstrix]

I might settle for that if it were me, but actually, they screwed up the entire top end gasket job if they used 2V gaskets, they should pay imo.

I agree with you, assuming a 4v full gasket set is available. When I was searching for gasket sets, a few months ago, I wasn't able to find anything with 4v gasket....I have to admit that I didn't look very hard because I was planning to run headers anyway.

I'll clarify that my prior post invalid if a full 4v kit is available and the shop ordered the wrong gaskets. Otherwise, the OP would be paying for a set of 4v gaskets, anyway.

Here's what you get with the Fel Pro offerings sold at Rock Auto.

 

[Stanglover]

I agree with you, assuming a 4v full gasket set is available. When I was searching for gasket sets, a few months ago, I wasn't able to find anything with 4v gasket....I have to admit that I didn't look very hard because I was planning to run headers anyway.

I'll clarify that my prior post invalid if a full 4v kit is available and the shop ordered the wrong gaskets. Otherwise, the OP would be paying for a set of 4v gaskets, anyway.

Here's what you get with the Fel Pro offerings sold at Rock Auto. View attachment 84156

Well, that sucks!
What am I going to do next time I need gaskets eh!

 

[Spike Morelli]

The Cleveland engine, both 4V and 2V, is one of those engines that, when purchasing a Full Set of gaskets, WILL NOT come with intake gaskets. Clevelands use a "turkey pan" style , embossed steel shim gasket as supplied from the factory. The appropriate gasket, either 4V or 2V, is purchased separately. This style of gasket is common, Olds V8s, AMC V8s, Mopars, come to mind. So, if you're going to look over the parts bill, know that the intake gasket set will be a separate purchase, even if you aren't using the stock style gasket, you'll still buy it separate.

 

[Stanglover]

I just did a quick look-around on the good ol' net and found several sites that "list" 351C 4V exhaust manifold gaskets. CJPony has them listed. I found a couple that list them but the picture they show is nowhere near correct. Some do list the port dimensions at 1.89 x 2.19", which without checking, I think is correct.
They may still be out there, just got to look and do your homework.
I remember now, that several years ago, I bought a set that are in my parts box. I ought to dig them out and check the port size.

 

[basstrix]

I just did a quick look-around on the good ol' net and found several sites that "list" 351C 4V exhaust manifold gaskets. CJPony has them listed. I found a couple that list them but the picture they show is nowhere near correct. Some do list the port dimensions at 1.89 x 2.19", which without checking, I think is correct.
They may still be out there, just got to look and do your homework.
I remember now, that several years ago, I bought a set that are in my parts box. I ought to dig them out and check the port size.

If that's for a full rebuild set with 4v exhaust gaskets, please post up the part number...I'll get a set to keep around.

 

[Billw69]

I discovered that the same mistake was made on my car, after noting exhaust manifold leaks. I changed them both out through the engine bay after disconnecting the Y pipe. Pretty straight forward and didn’t take more than two hours.

 

[Stanglover]

I discovered that the same mistake was made on my car, after noting exhaust manifold leaks. I changed them both out through the engine bay after disconnecting the Y pipe. Pretty straight forward and didn’t take more than two hours.

Thinking back to when my engine was rebuilt is 2016 and as I posted previously here, I remember now that it was not just loose bolts but they too had made the same mistake and they did replace the manifold gaskets for 4V. An exhaust leak was very obvious and quite loud.