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Is it legal to sell a vin??


jscott
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This is on Facebook marketplace

 

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1326085167559062

1971- 73 Mustang Dash Pad with title metal Panel Interior Original
$250$375
Ships for $12.00    Estimated arrival Feb 23 - Feb 25
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  • Condition
    Used - Good  
    Ford Mustang    Hi, I have a very nice metal dash panel that fits a 71 72 or 73 Mustang. Ask about the original title and door ID sticker. The original green color is quite good , could possibly be used as is for a driver. Straight, no dents. Little to no surface rust. Shipping extra. Send me your email address since Craigslist mail is unreliable and gets flagged as junk.

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Edited by jscott
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I can't comment on what is or what is not legal in the US, but there are other VIN numbers on these cars. I would think without these, it would be very hard to prove the car was legit. These numbers are on the shock tower aprons under the fenders. Then there are all the date codes stamped on every panel and part. I'm sure there have been many cars fobbed off as legit from just having the dash and door tag changed. Just my thoughts on it and what I would be looking for if I were buying a car.

Apron VIn_LI.1.jpg

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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I would think it's more of a grey area on a 50 year old car than it is on a newer one. Tons of cars this age and older with engine and trans swaps at minimum. Entire body sections replaced, etc. I guess if the title and door sticker came with the dash, it would not be hard to build a car with those items in place and register it as that car. 

Chris -  Born in '73 - Drive a '73 / Former U.S. Army 63B10-H8 / 1st Infantry Division - The Big Red One

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Once re-registered the car would have to show an odometer reading of 116k or higher or else the State would flag it as unverifiable mileage. Is there a lot of value in obtaining the VIN of a 100k+mi.  F code? Probably not. If it came out of a low mileage Q Code, or Boss that could be a different story. I could see someone trying to build that one and trying to pass it off for profit. 

Edited by Big Red Mach 1

Chris -  Born in '73 - Drive a '73 / Former U.S. Army 63B10-H8 / 1st Infantry Division - The Big Red One

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Yes it is illegal but not much done about it on the older cars unless someone reports it. You would definitely have issues when it comes to a legal title.  With the true vin in the frame not matching the dash or door it would provide grounds for legal action.  The vin on the metal dash panel should be removed before sale and kept with the original vehicle.  If the rest of the car has been scraped then the vin plate should be destroyed. In Ohio as in every state misrepresenting a vehicle by a false vin number is a crime and punishable by fines and or prison time.    

Edited by Kilgon
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Kilgon

 

 

"The only dumb question is the one not asked"

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It's illegal, plain and simple.

The flip side to this is that the states themselves are creating a market for tags and titles, by some still requiring titles on 50 year old vehicles. 

 

 

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I still see them have booths at shows with hundreds of titles for sale and yes the DMV has a booth set up also doing paperwork. They never arrest anyone. On one of the facebook pages was quite a discussion on the subject. One guy even stated he had stamp made to do the inner fenders with and even included the star at each end. You can buy the stamps from Argon they are just standard automotive stamps.
When I bring a car in from out of state the N.C. DOT comes and checks the VIN# and runs a check for stolen. They never have looked under the fender only the dash the door sticker is strictly a certification label not a VIN tag.
I sold a member here a 1950 Ford F-1 panel truck that had not been on the road since 1957. I bought it and a CJ 429 but never built it. I could not find the title so I went to the DMV site and printed out a BOS and filled that out. He took home and simply had to have his local Sheriff come out an verify VIN# matched the BOS info and they issued him a new title. Then last week when sifting through stuff I found the title so will send just to have.
I has got so bad here that you cannot take a car to the crusher if you do not have the title. Guys were crushing the interstate and towing in broke down cars and taking them to the crusher to get like $300. If you take a radiator to the crusher salvage lot here they get your finger print a state law. Same with catalytic converters.
I am pretty sure I posted pic of the 72 H code 3 speed vert, they only made 82,  I bought that was crashed. Since the insurance company never took possession of the car it came with a clear non salvage title. I will for sure keep all the numbers. This car has clear title from Michigan one owner.

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When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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It's not illegal to sell or buy a VIN.  It is illegal, however, to represent that VIN in any vehicle other than the one it originated.  The buyer could simply put the dash pad/VIN in a display case and not violate any laws. 

  • Like 1

Let me check your shorts!

http://midlifeharness.com

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I wasn't going to mention this, but several years ago, I was at a big swap meet nearby and one of the Mustang used parts vendors, had a complete body for sale for $6000. If I remember, it was soon after I bought my current car, so I wasn't interested in buying it. It was a 71(?) Mach 1 rolling shell. It was all there minus a few things, engine, trans, hood, windshield, interior, but it had factory 15"magnum wheels and totally rust free. The guy said it came from Arizona. Now here's the thing. The VIN had been cut from the dash pad and the door data sticker was gone, scraped off. The guy had to have imported it as a parts car, not to be titled (Ownership as we call it in Ontario). The fenders were still on the shell, so the partial VIN would have still been there, and therefore traceable. I'm not sure IF the body could have been re-registered here or not, but it was one hell of a good "parts car". (with the 15" wheels, I wondered if it was a originally a 429, not a Boss 351 as the Mach 1 decal was still visible on the fenders)

It is permissible to install the drive train from another body (rusted or wrecked) and register it under the VIN of the new body, no different than just swapping a motor, adding a different tranny or rear axle.

I remember back in the UK before I moved here, the engine number was recorded in the vehicle's "log book", so if an engine ever got changed, the log book had to be updated. You simply could not just swap in a new motor like we can do here. Another thing one could not do, was to cut two vehicles apart to make one. Junk yards sometimes tried this and then sell to unsuspecting customers. It was called "ringing" (don't ask why). Laws may have changed over the pond and be different now regarding engine swaps etc..

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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I'd love to find a 71 mach 1 shell with a good title to throw all my parts at!!! 

 

 

 

 

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Edited by turtle5353

Kevin
1971 Mach 1

408C Stroker - C4 w/3,000 stall - 8.8" Rear w/3.73's - Disc brakes all way around.

 

 

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41 minutes ago, turtle5353 said:

I'd love to find a 71 mach 1 shell with a good title to throw all my parts at!!! 

 

 

 

 

C37CCC14-FEB7-42B4-A080-E885CAC92E9F.jpeg

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Yes indeed. It makes me cringe whenever I see these photos.  Are you rebuilding this one still?

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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6 minutes ago, Stanglover said:

Yes indeed. It makes me cringe whenever I see these photos.  Are you rebuilding this one still?

If I could find a donor car I would build that but if not , I will be building this one.  Been dragging my feet  because I would really like to have my new garage built before I tear this thing apart.  Be nice to have a donor with good title that I could put all my parts on. Otherwise my car will have a rebuilt title.  Hurts value of the car but I don't really plan on ever selling. 

Kevin
1971 Mach 1

408C Stroker - C4 w/3,000 stall - 8.8" Rear w/3.73's - Disc brakes all way around.

 

 

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1 hour ago, turtle5353 said:

I'd love to find a 71 mach 1 shell with a good title to throw all my parts at!!! 

 

 

 

 

C37CCC14-FEB7-42B4-A080-E885CAC92E9F.jpeg

A111F80F-F921-4621-AE83-89B31DCF5879.jpeg

It still hurts to look at those pictures.  You had a really nice looking car.   Hope you find a shell or when you get your garage built that you can bring her back to life.

Edited by Kilgon

Kilgon

 

 

"The only dumb question is the one not asked"

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Just now, Kilgon said:

It still hurts to look at those pictures.  You had a really nice looking car. 

Yeah it sucks...... HAD is the key word! I couldnt stand looking at it in the garage anymore so i put it on my trailer and parked it outside under the carport all covered up. 

Kevin
1971 Mach 1

408C Stroker - C4 w/3,000 stall - 8.8" Rear w/3.73's - Disc brakes all way around.

 

 

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9 hours ago, Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs said:

You had the one in SC and did not pull the trigger. Why did that fall through?

David, the one in SC was a very nice car and probably worth every penny he was asking. I just decided I rather build another one rather than buy one.  I may be gluten for punishment, but I believe half the fun of it is the building process.  When its done I can stand back and say I built every piece!  And know exactly what is in it. 

Now to just get my new garage built so I can get to turning wrenches. 

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Kevin
1971 Mach 1

408C Stroker - C4 w/3,000 stall - 8.8" Rear w/3.73's - Disc brakes all way around.

 

 

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Hey garage is easy. I paid them to erect mine 4,000 sq. ft. I paid I think $3.08 a sq. ft. to erect it. His record is 4 days. Mine had 6" insulation all around so he charges more a pain to run the screws and keep insulation straight. That was with 11 window frames to install, 3 personal entry doors and two garage door frames. Heck they had all the red iron frame up, squared, and tension cables installed in one day.
When I worked construction me two carpenters and my boss could start with concrete block foundation and have a roof on house in max of 3 days. 1800 - 2000 sq. ft. Building buildings goes fast. But winter has you locked up I am sure.
If I were you I woult put ads on Craigslist in Arizona and desert areas looking for just a shell. Heck the totally rust free Grande I got from Arizona was just $1,000.

 

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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