Headers are tight on drivers side

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AcesArneson said:
Thanks Don, denting headers just seems like giving up to me. I don’t imagine I will need every cubic inch in my headers but in my mind denting would lead to rusting.
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Yes, it likely will not be possible to dent them in without damaging the coating.
Spike Morelli said:
Don, I saw that article on dented headers as well. You are correct that they didn't show any negative effects, although, asthetically, I too dislike having to dent headers, guess you gotta do what you gotta do now and again.
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I agree, looks like crap, and makes one think that whoever installed them didn't do their homework or know what they're doing. If that were my only choice I would cut the section out and weld in a curve around the problem. Of course, that would make a noticeable blemish on coated headers. I've debated with myself over the years about the benefits of coated headers. I've always just used painted ones, mainly because of the cost difference. This thread adds one more reason not to buy coated headers. Coated and wrapped headers help reduce under hood temperatures, but they do not add any performance benefits.
 
Don C said:
Yes, it likely will not be possible to dent them in without damaging the coating.

I agree, looks like crap, and makes one think that whoever installed them didn't do their homework or know what they're doing. If that were my only choice I would cut the section out and weld in a curve around the problem. Of course, that would make a noticeable blemish on coated headers. I've debated with myself over the years about the benefits of coated headers. I've always just used painted ones, mainly because of the cost difference. This thread adds one more reason not to buy coated headers. Coated and wrapped headers help reduce under hood temperatures, but they do not add any performance benefits.
Click to expand...
Actually Don, they help out immensely if you have EFI. Keeping the exhaust gases hot really helps the sensors give good accurate readings on your air to fuel ratio. That was the whole point for me, I am converting this one to sequential EFI, so I need good readings. The heat that the coated headers maintain inside the pipe makes a noticeable difference when tuning.
 
"Coated ... headers help reduce under hood temperatures, but they do not add any performance benefits.

Greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance, it's the illusion of knowledge.
 
rcadd1ct said:
They sell collectors with the bungs in them. That is the preferred location as it is farther down the line and gets a better o2 reading
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The manufacturer suggests getting them as close to the head as possible for best readings. I have mine in the collector as close to the individual tubes as practicable.
 
73pony said:
Odd you are having such trouble. I run Headman's on my 73 coupe with 351C and had zero fitment issues.
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Did you use 4V pattern or 2V? Mine are the 2V pattern.
 
AcesArneson said:
Got about 1/8” by moving the motor mount pads within the clamshell. The old and new clamshells are exactly the same size. The new ones are not as strong as the old ones so I stuck with the old ones.
With the motor shifted towards the passenger side I am going to try and lift the drivers side a touch to get it level. A lot of pissing around to make headers fit that the manufacturer said would work in my ‘73 Vert. Not impressed with Hedman Headers. The tubes coming through the flanges need lots of work, the more I think about it the less impressed I am. DO NOT BUY HEDMAN HEADERS FOR A 351C.
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You could also try to cut some flat stock and create a spacer between the block and the mount to level the engine in the car. That might get you some clearance.

1/8” might help. Any more you might need longer hardware.
 
rcadd1ct said:
You could also try to cut some flat stock and create a spacer between the block and the mount to level the engine in the car. That might get you some clearance.

1/8” might help. Any more you might need longer hardware.
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That’s a good idea, way better than spacers.
 
I don't have a cl
AcesArneson said:
Got about 1/8” by moving the motor mount pads within the clamshell. The old and new clamshells are exactly the same size. The new ones are not as strong as the old ones so I stuck with the old ones.
With the motor shifted towards the passenger side I am going to try and lift the drivers side a touch to get it level. A lot of pissing around to make headers fit that the manufacturer said would work in my ‘73 Vert. Not impressed with Hedman Headers. The tubes coming through the flanges need lots of work, the more I think about it the less impressed I am. DO NOT BUY HEDMAN HEADERS FOR A 351C.
Click to expand...
 
On further rumination I would be less apt to try to bend coated ceramic headers. Ceramic is not known for it's ductility and may crack. Just a guess. I'm in the process of swapping out a 2V 351C to a freshly built 4V Cobra Jet mill. Due to previous experiences I bolted up the headers I bought to the engine on the stand. Just in case a hole or 2 were a bit off and I could addresses it there and then. Had my fill of trying to install a bolt on a hole that's close while the pipes are in the car. Then I'm going to install the new mill and install the tubes with the C6 bolted up with the starter installed. If everything is copacetic I'll ship them off to get coated.
 
This was bothering me, so I dug into it a bit. Hedman offers two base uncoated part numbers they say fit the 71-73 cars, 88320 and 88220.

1717933903901.png


I have a set of 88220 that I bought to replace the dent-to-fit headers on our 71 Cougar. Looking up the header images on Summit, it appears the set on the Cougar are 88320s, judging by the tube routing and that they barely fit. Did the best I could to get some pics of them, but it's tight and a lot of stuff in the way.

1717883662766.png

1717883693772.png

Here's a comparison of the tube routing for the two Hedmans, and the Hooker 6921. These are all 2V headers.

71-73 2V COMPARISON.jpg



Here's a comparison pic of the 88220 and an old Hooker 6915 which are for 4V heads.


1717934239047.png


Here's how the 6915 (and assumedly the 6921) fit on my 71 Mach 1. These went in without any modifications. I installed both sides from the bottom and didn't even remove the Z-bar or linkage.


1717934305379.png

1717934333490.png
 
Hemikiller said:
This was bothering me, so I dug into it a bit. Hedman offers two base uncoated part numbers they say fit the 71-73 cars, 88320 and 88220.

View attachment 89525


I have a set of 88220 that I bought to replace the dent-to-fit headers on our 71 Cougar. Looking up the header images on Summit, it appears the set on the Cougar are 88320s, judging by the tube routing and that they barely fit. Did the best I could to get some pics of them, but it's tight and a lot of stuff in the way.

View attachment 89506

View attachment 89507

Here's a comparison of the tube routing for the two Hedmans, and the Hooker 6921. These are all 2V headers.

View attachment 89526



Here's a comparison pic of the 88220 and an old Hooker 6915 which are for 4V heads.


View attachment 89527


Here's how the 6915 (and assumedly the 6921) fit on my 71 Mach 1. These went in without any modifications. I installed both sides from the bottom and didn't even remove the Z-bar or linkage.


View attachment 89528

View attachment 89529
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Thanks for all the detail. I am pretty sure if mine was not a convertible it would fit ok but with the lower motor mount bases I have to find another way. To boot, the headers came with a grinder mark across three of the tubes on the plate that needed to be smoothed out. In hindsight, if the groves would have been on the other side (bottom) I could have just sanded down the bottom half of the tube welds to the header giving the header surface a bit of an angle. This would have moved the headers away from the steering box. Real crappy craftsmanship on these Herman headers, I am really unimpressed. A lot of time pissing around for a bolt on option. I might just try to add some angle and see where it gets me, the flanges are pretty thick so planing down the bottom a bit more than the top should be fine.
 
Just an observation from the photos of the Hedman headers,...the 88220 pipes are 1 3/4", vs the 88320 at 1 5/8". The 88320 pipes are a tad smaller to begin with, and the design of the 88320 slants the #8 ( rear pipe ) back, instead of straight down like the 88220. It appears, from the pictures, that the #8 rear pipe is the tight fitting problem one. Because Hedman made a design change, it would seem that one or the other design should clear the steering box. I think, on the street, I'd chose the smaller diameter pipe, but if the other fits better, that's the one I'd use. I like headers, of whichever make, that have a "floating 3-bolt flange" , just so I can position it with one bolt hole up, and the skinniest side of the flange down for a bit more road clearance. The 2-bolt "ball and socket" design generally has better road clearance as well, as opposed to a three-bolt flange with one bolt hole pointing down.
 
73pony said:
2V headers
Click to expand...
Oh you have a coupe, mine is a convertible. They have lower pads so my motor sits lower than yours. If I raised my mounts an inch I would still be hitting the steering box.
 
Well change in plan now that I got the oil pan cross-member circus finished. Hooker Headers went in and on pretty smooth. The one tube does come with in about 1/4" away from the top plate of the steering box. A couple of the pipes at the flanges are not box end wrench friendly. No more open end wrench for me turning a hex head bolt an eighth of a turn at a time. I like the ARP stainless twelve point bolts with a head that fits a 3/8" socket or wrench. Not expensive when I consider all the aggravation it saves me.

After researching the cost of getting the headers coated and the spotty record of a lot of shops I decided to pass.
My Stocker has a set of headers that I built over 20 years ago that I had coated. They still look good and solid.
Not to be morbid but 20 years isn't in the cards and I'm not into saving it for it's next owner. So I got out the "heat wrench" and moved things around a bit. As soon as I can sandblast off the protective factory paint, it'll be time for good 'ole VHT black header paint. I'm finding the older & wiser you get the more you favor practicality. LOL
 

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MAD IRISHMAN said:
Well change in plan now that I got the oil pan cross-member circus finished. Hooker Headers went in and on pretty smooth. The one tube does come with in about 1/4" away from the top plate of the steering box. A couple of the pipes at the flanges are not box end wrench friendly. No more open end wrench for me turning a hex head bolt an eighth of a turn at a time. I like the ARP stainless twelve point bolts with a head that fits a 3/8" socket or wrench. Not expensive when I consider all the aggravation it saves me.

After researching the cost of getting the headers coated and the spotty record of a lot of shops I decided to pass.
My Stocker has a set of headers that I built over 20 years ago that I had coated. They still look good and solid.
Not to be morbid but 20 years isn't in the cards and I'm not into saving it for it's next owner. So I got out the "heat wrench" and moved things around a bit. As soon as I can sandblast off the protective factory paint, it'll be time for good 'ole VHT black header paint. I'm finding the older & wiser you get the more you favor practicality. LOL
Click to expand...
For what it's worth Irishman, you actually have a ton of room for your headers...check out my clearance on these 2-1/8" vintage Appliance Co. headers. Lots of fun with R&R with these!
 
Cleveland Crush said:
For what it's worth Irishman, you actually have a ton of room for your headers...check out my clearance on these 2-1/8" vintage Appliance Co. headers. Lots of fun with R&R with these!
Click to expand...
 

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