1972 Mustang Coupe 302

[Paul Schmidt]

Just purchased a 1972 302 V8 coupe as a project. Picked it up in CA from a vet who had it in his garage, barring the occasional grocery run. The car runs incredibly well, the interior is in great shape and I finally snagged it after years of wanting one. There is some body work that needs to be done, but nothing major. I'm starting out with the basics, all fluids, filters, plugs, hoses, brakes, etc., then I'm going to strip her down and repaint it to a 6E yellow and black and redot the interior in black leather. That's the plan as of right now, although I haven't had it long enough to really see if there is anything larger lurking, but so far fingers crossed, it looks like the majority of the money I put away for this can be spent making it look good. At 5k and in this condition, it kind of just came to me at the right time after a long time of wanting one.

Admittedly I've been buying and stocking parts for this for awhile in hopes I would find one. So I do have some new Cooper Cobra's, Magnum 500's, a new scooped hood, front and rear spoilers....which, I know was probably the cart before the horse, but at least I have them in stock. I'll keep you all posted on the build as it comes along. Plan is to really dive into it starting next weekend. I've attached some photos, along with a photo of the end objective...although again, yellow and black, not green. That's the design plan though.

 

[will e]

Nice find! It's great that you were already stocking parts for it.. That's taking the hobby to the next level!

 

[Steve McMahan]

That’s a man with a plan. Congratulations.

 

[Paul Schmidt]

That’s a man with a plan. Congratulations.

Thanks Steve. Hoping the plan stays on track for the most part. I'll keep the thread posted as I roll along.

 

[Paul Schmidt]

Just an update for all following the build. Took a couple hours yesterday (after a day of endless meetings) and spent some detail time with the car. Initially all seems to be pretty solid operationally, which is the biggest weight off the list. I replaced the transmission filter, oil filter, plugs, battery and a majority of the hoses that were substantially in need of replacement. Also put in a new Edelbrock carb and air cleaner. She is running really strong (fingers crossed) and the engine tick that it came with it was indeed just an oil issue...not anything more and was solved with the oil swap out. Not sure when the last oil change was done, but it would appear it had been a hot minute. Next up will be the brakes and most likely a new exhaust system, which also needs to be replaced. Also going to have to address all new weatherstripping...as that's shot as well.

One of the main issues I'm going to have to address when I sand her down is going to be two significant spots of rust damage. There are a lot of small surface rust issues that can be sanded out, but these two spots are pretty brutal at first glance. You can see in the pictures, there are two fairly large spots that I am either going to have to replace completely...or (gasp) address with some filler. I know the B-word is an unspoken sin, but at the end of the day (and as mentioned) I am not building this for show or some significant sale. She's gonna be my fun-ride until either she breaks down or I do. So I'm not overly concerned with a little bondo repair here and there, but I have yet to really clean the spots up and investigate more thoroughly. It might be significant enough where I have to replace the panels ( a little out of my wheelhouse) before I set the garage up to paint her fully. If anyone has any other suggestions or opinions on this...by all means fire away. I'm not a pro restorer...so I'm doing a lot of this on my own and through trial and error. I know my way around engines, but bodywork, painting, wiring...there are quite a few areas I am living off of youtube videos to conquer.

Once I get the engine cleaned up and everything back in order, I'll update with more pics. But again, from the initial diagnosis, she appears to be in much better condition than I would have expected and anticipated. More to come.

[Edit on this] - to clarify, I am not necessarily a proponent of filler, however in this situation, I have two options (one being more pricey) to choose from on a car that doesn't need to be show-perfect. I can go into these spots, wire brush them down, use some rust encapsulator, fill the holes with filler, sand them down, then prime and paint (cost-effective and within my abilities) or I can have these sections professionally welded with new material and done, with a substantial cost increase added to my running tab. Unless I am missing something, those seem to be the options...and obviously I am leaning towards doing it myself. Again, input welcome.

PBR

 

[Paul Schmidt]

Alright gang...finally had my first window of opportunity to start diving into the 72. Needless to say, there is a ****-ton of work ahead in terms of body work, rust repair, etc. However my first focus is to get the engine situated and running properly. When she showed up from Cali, she was running rough...think I mentioned the issue about her seemingly struggling for gas and stalling after you get her up to a certain speed when I drove her out there. Now that she's here, the issue is definitely more elaborate.

She will idle fine when in Park or Neutral...revs good...sounds fairly decent without having done anything major yet. However, when you drop her into Reverse or Drive, the idle drops significantly and she basically chokes...or stalls completely. So I made this video before I get into anything this weekend to see if you guys see something glaring that I am not. Again, please pardon stupid questions...I know how to do some engine work, but admittedly there is a lot I don't know. I have segmented this into three sections of questions and sorry, had to put it on You Tube because of size. Give it a watch and comment back here.



1) the EFI / fuel pump mess this guy left me with.
2) the random unplugged hoses to nowhere.
3) recommendations on changing out the air cleaner and breathers.

I welcome your thoughts.

 

[bishoppeak]

Fuel, spark and timing are what makes it work. If it Idles you're probably good for timing and spark, so check your fuel pressure off idle. Also look for any possible vacuum leaks. Those hoses are for the charcoal canister and missing A/C and shouldn't be a problem. That shiny air cleaner should wait until you get the engine running right.

 

[Bill Perkins]

Just purchased a 1972 302 V8 coupe as a project. Picked it up in CA from a vet who had it in his garage, barring the occasional grocery run. The car runs incredibly well, the interior is in great shape and I finally snagged it after years of wanting one. There is some body work that needs to be done, but nothing major. I'm starting out with the basics, all fluids, filters, plugs, hoses, brakes, etc., then I'm going to strip her down and repaint it to a 6E yellow and black and redot the interior in black leather. That's the plan as of right now, although I haven't had it long enough to really see if there is anything larger lurking, but so far fingers crossed, it looks like the majority of the money I put away for this can be spent making it look good. At 5k and in this condition, it kind of just came to me at the right time after a long time of wanting one.

Admittedly I've been buying and stocking parts for this for awhile in hopes I would find one. So I do have some new Cooper Cobra's, Magnum 500's, a new scooped hood, front and rear spoilers....which, I know was probably the cart before the horse, but at least I have them in stock. I'll keep you all posted on the build as it comes along. Plan is to really dive into it starting next weekend. I've attached some photos, along with a photo of the end objective...although again, yellow and black, not green. That's the design plan though.

Nice Ride, I have a 72 Coupe 302 with C4, all numbers matching

 

[Paul Schmidt]

Alright gang...new video. I took a half day today to see if I could somehow manage getting the new fuel pump in once again...to which I was utterly denied yet again. Goal was to see if I could get it in and maybe diagnose some issues without towing it to the shop tomorrow...but alas that appears to be the direction. Out of being stubborn I thought that maybe a couple days break and some starting and stopping would miraculously get the cam into position, but that'd be a big "no for me dawg" response.

Anyway, that aside, I figured I'd fire it up to let you all take a listen and see what you think could be some glaring items that I could be missing. Again, idles in park and neutral...drops and stalls on any other gear. Either way it's headed to the shop tomorrow. Just not looking forward to the inevitable list of things that they may come back with.



EDIT: FYI just a recap on whats been done so far. Oil changed, oil filter changed, trasmission fluid changed, transmission filter changed, new wires, new plugs, new battery.

PBR

 

[cjstaci]

Sounds like you have at least one cylinder not working. I would start with finding which one or ones it is by pulling one spark plug wire at a time. This will help you find any dead cylinders and verify spark. Make sure you have good spark at each spark plug. Once you find the cylinders not working, remove the spark plugs and inspect. If they are wet fouled with fuel or oil they probably won’t fire.
I would remove the valve covers and inspect. Hearing the metallic sound, I would inspect rocker arms, push rods, and valve springs. If you don’t see any obvious problems, rotate the engine to check for push rods moving up and down. Lack of movement could indicate a worn cam lobe or collapsed lifter.
A good diagnostic tool is a vacuum gauge. It can quickly determine a mechanical problem.

 

[Hemikiller]

For the fuel pump, you need to have the engine at #6 TDC on the compression stroke for the eccentric to be at it's highest point. Pop #6 plug out, stick your finger in the plug hole and bump the engine over with a remote starter witch until the pressure pushes your finger off. That should get you close enough to #6 TDC to be able to install the pump.

Friendly advice - get whatever is in your way, out of your way, even if it seems to make extra work. Take the power steering pump off - it's two bolts, and slide it up on the shock tower. Now you have free access to the pump area. I personally would also remove the compressor bracket for now. There's three studs with nuts attaching it to the cylinder head, and it's captured by the PS pump bracket. You'll need to make a spacer for behind the PS pump, as the bracket serves that function. The spacer needs to be 7/16" ID and 9/16" thick. A stack of washers works, just glue them together with some RTV or tack weld them.

For your running issue, I'd start from scratch. You're running around in circles frustrating yourself. Start from the ground level and work your way up. First thing I'd do is a compression test. If that turns out poorly, you can still go through tuning it to run well. But, if you're got a really weak cylinder, it's decision time. Do a dry test and a wet test. That'll let you know the health of the engine.

I could write it all out, but Luke - Thunderhead289 - has a great video on setting ignition timing, idle mixture tuning, etc. This is the same procedure I've been using for twenty plus years. The only thing I didn't see him do is set the dwell on the points, which is critical as well.

 

[Cleveland Crush]

I concur with above recommendations. Record compression test results (the first crank rotation reading is as important as the 5th/total reading). Sure sounds like a valve train problem. As previously stated pull the valve covers and use a bump starter to individually check EACH rocker arm as you crank the engine with the bump starter looking for irregular; rough or loose operation and damaged parts. A leakdown test my be useful also.

 

[Paul Schmidt]

I learned a valuable lesson yesterday thanks to Hemi, Cleveland and CJ.....Take my f'ing time...even if it means more work.

I regrouped on everything with fresh eyes yesterday...and to Hemi's advice, took the time to get stuff out of the way that was in the way and got the fuel pump in with the finger test and some time dedicated to getting it in. Should have done that from the start. Would have saved me a lot of grief.

Also, discovered that the rotor on the distributor cap was severly bent from a previously bad install, so I replaced the distributor cap and rotor.

Removed the valve covers (which actually presented everything in really great condition) and low and behold, discovered that I had a snapped rocker arm. So I replaced that rocker arm assembly as well.

Also purchased a new carburetor, as I have been discovering that the previous guy slapped on number of things on this engine that simply were questionable. So I took the approach of putting new components in that are compatible, but more importantly, that I know at least what I am working with, versus parts that maybe have issues with them or hidden issues. Probably could have rebuilt it, but at least now I know its new.

All that said...finished around 9pm at last night and fired her up....and quite frankly, she ran like I could have taken her to the track. Unreal.

Lesson learned: I was trying to focus too much on "finding the one issue" to fix the problem, versus taking the time to read the situation from the bottom up.

Thanks again guys. Your advice and rec's were dead on.

PBR

 

[cv_72mustang]

You should rebuild the old one. Good learning experience.

 

[Paul Schmidt]

You should rebuild the old one. Good learning experience.

Yeah, I kept the old one so I can take it apart and rebuild, exactly for that reason so I learn how to do it.

 

[Cleveland Crush]

PBR, this is an excellent manual for first time (or many times) Cleveland engine builders:

https://d2zl5tj7gmc4tr.cloudfront.net/images/products/l-62b_20210521090556.jpg

 

[Paul Schmidt]

PBR, this is an excellent manual for first time (or many times) Cleveland engine builders:

https://d2zl5tj7gmc4tr.cloudfront.net/images/products/l-62b_20210521090556.jpg

I'll give it a go. I actually have his Small Block manual which has been pretty helpful.

 

[Hemikiller]

Glad you got it all sorted out

 

[Paul Schmidt]

Just a small update with some before and after's. She's running top notch now, which was a blessing considering I wasn't sure how much I was going to discover with the engine. Luckily, the engine was solid...just a lot of half-assed fixes and non-care prior to me getting it.

Got the fuel pump issue resolved, took that electric pump out, new carb, new wires, redid the broken rocker arm assembly, new distributor, new ignition coil, and replaced the valve covers and some hoses while I was in there. Next up is the master cylinder and AC.

Small steps...

PBR

 

[Bill Perkins]

Just a small update with some before and after's. She's running top notch now, which was a blessing considering I wasn't sure how much I was going to discover with the engine. Luckily, the engine was solid...just a lot of half-assed fixes and non-care prior to me getting it.

Got the fuel pump issue resolved, took that electric pump out, new carb, new wires, redid the broken rocker arm assembly, new distributor, new ignition coil, and replaced the valve covers and some hoses while I was in there. Next up is the master cylinder and AC.

Small steps...

PBR

So Awesome
What was the problem installation issue with the manual fuel pump?