351 C 2v upgrade quick & dirty

[Wyostang]

I am having a hell of time trying to get set and decided on a system for a little power boost. I want to go from 2bbl to 4bbl I am up for trying a new carb and intake I don't want to change heads or cam. How can you do it? What components?

 

[4Vforever]

As has been suggested a heap of times switching from 2bbl to 4bbl is a pretty easy job and will give you some added power, especially in the top end. An Edlebrock performer with a 4 bbl carb around 600 cfm will help you a bit. A set of headers and a set of 2 1/4 in duals will it along too and installing an electronic ignition set up or converting your distributor (as long as it has no excessive play) with a Pertronix kit will also help you out a bit. But the best way to make all this work even more is to put in mild camshaft, new lifters, springs to suit and a new quality timing set, but it is wise to do these mods if the engine itself is in very good condition. Before doing anything, a compression test and a leak down test is a worthwhile proposition, if it all checks out good then go ahead with whatever it is you want to do to your car. If the engine is below average, then the best way to make better power is to recondition the engine and while its apart you can put in a nice camshaft to suit your needs and other mods your wallet allows. If you just want better acceleration, then you can't go past changing your rear end ratio, but the trade off is increased RPM, fuel consumption and less top end. Anyway get your engine checked first and decide which way to go from there. Plenty of people on here only to happy help you with what you choose to do with your car and help you do it yourself to save costs.

 

[barnett468]

.

curving your distributor timing so it is optimum for your engine may also help

 

[mustang7173]

Wyostang,

Plus 1 with 4Vforever with checking the condition of your engine. According to your requirements, you do not want to change the heads and cam shaft. You could do this, depending on your budget.

1: Edelbrock Performer Intake Manifolds 2750 --- Intake Manifold, Performer, Dual Plane, Aluminum, Natural, Square Bore, Ford, 351C, 2V engines

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-2750/overview/make/ford

2: A good 600 cfm style carburetor

3: Pertronix Style electronic ignition

4: 1971 FORD MUSTANG Patriot Full-Length Headers H8412-B

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pte-h8412-b/overview/year/1971/make/ford/model/mustang

Patriot Exhaust H8412-B 1 3/4" Full Length Header Ford Mustang 351C 71-73 2v Heads only Hi-Temp Black Coating

5: Summit Racing® Balance Tube Kits SUM-642025

Crossover Pipe, H-Style Balance Tube, Steel, Aluminized, 2.5 in. Diameter, Universal, Kit

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-642025/overview/

The headers and cross over will definitely open up the 351C -2V engine while the 600 CFM carb/intake manifold will boost the fuel/air intake flow.

mustang7173

 

[jbojo]

As has been suggested a heap of times switching from 2bbl to 4bbl is a pretty easy job and will give you some added power, especially in the top end. An Edlebrock performer with a 4 bbl carb around 600 cfm will help you a bit. A set of headers and a set of 2 1/4 in duals will it along too and installing an electronic ignition set up or converting your distributor (as long as it has no excessive play) with a Pertronix kit will also help you out a bit. But the best way to make all this work even more is to put in mild camshaft, new lifters, springs to suit and a new quality timing set, but it is wise to do these mods if the engine itself is in very good condition. Before doing anything, a compression test and a leak down test is a worthwhile proposition, if it all checks out good then go ahead with whatever it is you want to do to your car. If the engine is below average, then the best way to make better power is to recondition the engine and while its apart you can put in a nice camshaft to suit your needs and other mods your wallet allows. If you just want better acceleration, then you can't go past changing your rear end ratio, but the trade off is increased RPM, fuel consumption and less top end. Anyway get your engine checked first and decide which way to go from there. Plenty of people on here only to happy help you with what you choose to do with your car and help you do it yourself to save costs.

+1

New intake manifold and carb will increase the flow into the cylinders but to really maximize the changes you need to increase the flow out of the cylinders too as 4Vforever has mentioned. Stock heads air flow for the exhaust side is quite a bit lower so a cam with a longer duration/lift on the exhaust would help too. For optimum performance the flow in and out should be the same but takes a lot of head work/cost to achieve.

 

[mustang7173]

jbojo,

Agreed! If he decided to just install the new exhaust with the cross over system, he should see a noticeable improvement. Since his base requirements are no heads and cams, does not leave many options.

mustang7173

 

[Mister 4x4]

The 351C-2V in my car was seized up and rusted like a big dog, so I pretty much had to start from scratch. Between the machine work, replacement components, and go-fast goodies, I'm over $10K into it... but the go-fast goodies themselves weren't the bulk of expense.

Here's my 351C-2V recipe for 400-ish hp:

• 9.5:1 Keith Black hypereutectic flat-top pistons
  
• CompCams Roller cam 270/270 w.566" lift (.215/.215 @.500" on 110* lobes)
  
• CompCams Hi-Energy Roller "Everything" (1.73 Rockers, lifters, rods, rod guides)
  
• Crane Cams screw-in 7/16" rocker studs
  
• Edelbrock Performer intake
  
• Edelbrock Performer 600CFM carb
  
• 3-angle valve job & hardened seats (rebuilt the stock 2V heads)
  
• Chrome 'stock' oil pan, Edelbrock valve covers
  
• Holley "Black" electric fuel pump
  
• Duraspark ignition conversion
  
• Accel Super Coil & 8mm wires
  
• Hooker Competition Ceramic-coated Long-Tube Headers
  
• Pypes 2.5" stainless exhaust w/X-pipe - Pypes Street Pro mufflers
  

I've also purchased an Edelbrock E-Street fuel injection system, but I haven't installed it yet since I'm still finishing up the rest of the things needed to get it on the road - then I'll swap out the carb.

You can go to the CompCams website and use their CamQuest utility to help you pick some performance parts. Find your engine and use the stock replacement cam option, then pick & choose the go-fast goodies you would like to use. The virtual dyno will give you a ballpark WAG on what to expect for power after changing/adding those things. One of the other members had done a cam swap and I was impressed with his new power, so I went with his cam specs (a great performance cam without being too crazy). Then I used to pick out the things I needed to reach the 400hp goal (I already knew I wanted the Edelbrock stuff I'd picked out... but had no idea what else I would need to make it all gel.

Edelbrock and CompCams were always my favorites, for no other than having had Edelbrock goodies on a previous vehicle and I'd always heard good stuff about CompCams. Other people prefer other products and there is no right or wrong combination of parts based on manufacturer, in my opinion - anything can make it sing or run like crap, depending on how it goes together and gets tuned.

I'm not saying just pick a bunch of cool things and toss them together - do your research and find what works well together and make an educated decision. The guys here will have tons of great advice and are some of the best cheerleaders around (although, I'm pretty sure there are only a few that could make the shorty-shorts and go-go boots work). rofl

 

[73pony]

I can share little of my experience with this. I am in the process of doing the same thing. So far, 2 1/4" dual exhaust with H-Pipe and turbo mufflers. New Headman ceramic coated long tube headers. Huge difference all ready. Car had dual exhaust on it but was smaller and in sad shape. My buddy who helped replace it was pretty sure it was original to the car. Next step is Pertronix, then intake and 4 bbl carb. My plan is a Holley Street Dominator intake (already have but I am still on the look out for an Air-gap at a good price) and Demon 1901 carb 625 cfm. I did a compression check and leakdown before starting any of this as well. the car only has 69K miles and all was good. I will have just over $1,100 in this as I am doing all of the work myself. Down the road future plans are new CAM, 3.5 gears posi (have 2.75 open now), convert from FMX to T-5. I did not want to do the CAM until I have the other upgrades completed as I want to make sure the new CAM will match up with what I have and what I want the car to be.

I have figured out quickly that nothing is quick and dirty with a Cleveland.

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

What is your rear gear ratio? What transmission are you running? What do you want to do with the car?

Without this info, determining a course of action is less effective.

Headers, improved exhaust, a 4 barrel of 600-750 CFM properly jetted and tuned to your car, properly curved and reliable ignition system are all great basics to work with-but if you have a 2.75 rear gear, you'll get a lot more out of a gear change than all of the above.

 

[tony-muscle]

As has been suggested a heap of times switching from 2bbl to 4bbl is a pretty easy job and will give you some added power, especially in the top end. An Edlebrock performer with a 4 bbl carb around 600 cfm will help you a bit. A set of headers and a set of 2 1/4 in duals will it along too and installing an electronic ignition set up or converting your distributor (as long as it has no excessive play) with a Pertronix kit will also help you out a bit. But the best way to make all this work even more is to put in mild camshaft, new lifters, springs to suit and a new quality timing set, but it is wise to do these mods if the engine itself is in very good condition. Before doing anything, a compression test and a leak down test is a worthwhile proposition, if it all checks out good then go ahead with whatever it is you want to do to your car. If the engine is below average, then the best way to make better power is to recondition the engine and while its apart you can put in a nice camshaft to suit your needs and other mods your wallet allows. If you just want better acceleration, then you can't go past changing your rear end ratio, but the trade off is increased RPM, fuel consumption and less top end. Anyway get your engine checked first and decide which way to go from there. Plenty of people on here only to happy help you with what you choose to do with your car and help you do it yourself to save costs.

What PSI will be considered a good result from a compression test for a 2V and 4V? What should we see from a good leak down test?

1971 M-code Mach 1

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

Depends upon the year as compression ratios differ. a 73 4V open chamber engine may only make 140 psi per cylinder

The same year 2V will be similar

a true 11.5:1 engine might be closer to 175

You also have to account for the differences between gauges, so if all cylinders are within 10% typically, that result suggest the engine is in sound condition.

As to leak down, less than 15% is nice. Less than 10% is pretty darn good, less than 5% is unlikely-again what you are looking for is variations between cylinders which might indicate a intake or exhaust valve not seating. Big differences dictate further investigation. I have had an engine that had leak down of 25% that ran wonderfully and had absolutely 0 bad habits. It used minimal oil, got good mileage, idled smoothly and went to 185000 miles before the vehicle was totalled. If I had been in town, I'd have pulled the engine from the wreckage and used it in something else.

 

[73pony]

Compression on mine ranged from 138 to 145. 73 2v. Leak down was a little less than stellar but still good. was around 15%+ on all with one just below 20%.

 

[tony-muscle]

Depends upon the year as compression ratios differ. a 73 4V open chamber engine may only make 140 psi per cylinder

The same year 2V will be similar

a true 11.5:1 engine might be closer to 175

You also have to account for the differences between gauges, so if all cylinders are within 10% typically, that result suggest the engine is in sound condition.

As to leak down, less than 15% is nice. Less than 10% is pretty darn good, less than 5% is unlikely-again what you are looking for is variations between cylinders which might indicate a intake or exhaust valve not seating. Big differences dictate further investigation. I have had an engine that had leak down of 25% that ran wonderfully and had absolutely 0 bad habits. It used minimal oil, got good mileage, idled smoothly and went to 185000 miles before the vehicle was totalled. If I had been in town, I'd have pulled the engine from the wreckage and used it in something else.

What should i expect out of a 71 4V. When I did mine i got 140 on all 8, but i did it with the engine cold.

1971 M-code Mach 1

 

[mustang7173]

Mister 4x4.

Dude, definitely let us know when you get that Edelbrock E-Street fuel injection system installed. The last place I was working, the dad and son had a 1971 Nova with a 350 4v Holley. They purchased the Professional Products fuel injection system. Man, what a difference it made. Ya Ya , I know it was an Alt Not- Alt not have been built chevy!

http://professional-products.com/fuel-injection

mustang7173 :bravo:

The 351C-2V in my car was seized up and rusted like a big dog, so I pretty much had to start from scratch. Between the machine work, replacement components, and go-fast goodies, I'm over $10K into it... but the go-fast goodies themselves weren't the bulk of expense.

Here's my 351C-2V recipe for 400-ish hp:

• 9.5:1 Keith Black hypereutectic flat-top pistons
  
• CompCams Roller cam 270/270 w.566" lift (.215/.215 @.500" on 110* lobes)
  
• CompCams Hi-Energy Roller "Everything" (1.73 Rockers, lifters, rods, rod guides)
  
• Crane Cams screw-in 7/16" rocker studs
  
• Edelbrock Performer intake
  
• Edelbrock Performer 600CFM carb
  
• 3-angle valve job & hardened seats (rebuilt the stock 2V heads)
  
• Chrome 'stock' oil pan, Edelbrock valve covers
  
• Holley "Black" electric fuel pump
  
• Duraspark ignition conversion
  
• Accel Super Coil & 8mm wires
  
• Hooker Competition Ceramic-coated Long-Tube Headers
  
• Pypes 2.5" stainless exhaust w/X-pipe - Pypes Street Pro mufflers
  

I've also purchased an Edelbrock E-Street fuel injection system, but I haven't installed it yet since I'm still finishing up the rest of the things needed to get it on the road - then I'll swap out the carb.

You can go to the CompCams website and use their CamQuest utility to help you pick some performance parts. Find your engine and use the stock replacement cam option, then pick & choose the go-fast goodies you would like to use. The virtual dyno will give you a ballpark WAG on what to expect for power after changing/adding those things. One of the other members had done a cam swap and I was impressed with his new power, so I went with his cam specs (a great performance cam without being too crazy). Then I used to pick out the things I needed to reach the 400hp goal (I already knew I wanted the Edelbrock stuff I'd picked out... but had no idea what else I would need to make it all gel.

Edelbrock and CompCams were always my favorites, for no other than having had Edelbrock goodies on a previous vehicle and I'd always heard good stuff about CompCams. Other people prefer other products and there is no right or wrong combination of parts based on manufacturer, in my opinion - anything can make it sing or run like crap, depending on how it goes together and gets tuned.

I'm not saying just pick a bunch of cool things and toss them together - do your research and find what works well together and make an educated decision. The guys here will have tons of great advice and are some of the best cheerleaders around (although, I'm pretty sure there are only a few that could make the shorty-shorts and go-go boots work). rofl

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

What should i expect out of a 71 4V. When I did mine i got 140 on all 8, but i did it with the engine cold.

1971 M-code Mach 1

That sounds right for an open chamber head to me-but I wouldn't worry cause with no noticeable deviation from cylinder to cylinder, it is likely in very good shape as far as rings go. Leak down numbers might help if you are chasing a problem, but I wouldn't go to the trouble otherwise

 

[mustang7173]

All,

I have read a lot on the 351C engines. While researching some of the questions on this thread ran across this web site with all kinds of 351c 2v and 4v information.

PANTERA INTERNATIONAL - A DE TOMASO CAR CLUB

351 CLEVELAND BASICS AND PERFORMANCE TUNING

FOR HIGH PERFORMANCE-STREET CARS AND SPORTS CARS

http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5650045562/m/319104265

mustang7173

 

[73pony]

WOW. That's a lot of info.

 

[tony-muscle]

All,

I have read a lot on the 351C engines. While researching some of the questions on this thread ran across this web site with all kinds of 351c 2v and 4v information.

PANTERA INTERNATIONAL - A DE TOMASO CAR CLUB

351 CLEVELAND BASICS AND PERFORMANCE TUNING

FOR HIGH PERFORMANCE-STREET CARS AND SPORTS CARS

http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5650045562/m/319104265

mustang7173

That's a very interesting thread that I also discovered a few weeks ago. According to that thread the cam to buy is grind 523801 from Crane.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-523801

I wonder if anyone here is using this cam.

He also likes bigger CFM carbs, but with annular discharge.

 

[Mikes73]

When I was running my 2 cleveland it responded very well to hedman longtubes with full exhaust, a recurved duraspark distributor and an edelbrock air gap with a custom tuned eddie 600 carb. Its whole attitude changed after that lol.