351 Cleveland 2V awful noise

[CZ-75]

Great pic JoJo!!!!

Getting that damn thing to line up with the socket st the bottom of the dizzy can be frustrating when installing the dizzy.

 

[Dallas]

Dear friends thanks a lot to all of you for your tips and support

Can you believe that I live 25 minutes from Maranello where Ferrari and Maserati plants are and 40 minutes from Lamborghini plant and I cannnot find a machanic that can do a good job on my Stang ?

Anyway this is he story

When the so called mechnic changed the distributor I drove about 3 miles to my garage and parked the car and I didn't hear any strange noise

The morning after when I crank the engine to start the car I started to hear this horrible noise but I didn't use the car to avoid any possible damage

Now I'd like to replace the distributor by myself so I will disinstall it and I will post the photo of it, the problem is that I'm not an expert mechanic and I hope can re install it but I don't have the stroboscopic pistol to set the timing

Of course I hope that the engine will not have major damages

I will let you know

Great pic JoJo!!!!

Getting that damn thing to line up with the socket st the bottom of the dizzy can be frustrating when installing the dizzy.

 

[will e]

It is interesting you drove it 3 miles with no strange noise. That is actually rather encouraging. If the oil pump drive had been dropped the engine should have been making a very noticable tapping sound from the lifters not pumping up.

You don't need a stroboscopic pistol (timing light) to set the timing, it can help but not required.

We can help walk you through swapping out the distributor, it is not a super difficult process.

 

[Dallas]

Thanks a lot

Tomorrow morning ( Italian time ), I will disinstall the distributor and I will post the pics of it

The awful sound ( sort of grinding as when two surfaces make friction one against the other ), started the day after when I started the engine

Thanks again

It is interesting you drove it 3 miles with no strange noise. That is actually rather encouraging. If the oil pump drive had been dropped the engine should have been making a very noticable tapping sound from the lifters not pumping up.

You don't need a stroboscopic pistol (timing light) to set the timing, it can help but not required.

We can help walk you through swapping out the distributor, it is not a super difficult process.

 

[turtle5353]

Good luck tomorrow hope it is all ok. Just a quick hint before you pull the distributor, you might want to turn the motor over by hand and get the rotor in the distributor to point at #1 cylinder. that way when you drop in the new one you can just line the new rotor up to #1 on the new distributor and it should be very close when you drop it in.

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

the hexagonal shaft that drives the oil pump can shear into two pieces or have either end stripped smooth. Using an extension, I suggest you fit a socket to the top of the shaft and turn it by hand to be sure the oil pump is engaged before reinstalling the distributor. If it has broken you will need a new one and ARP makes an improved version.

 

[Dallas]

Sorry I didn't understand well

How do I have to do it ?

Sorry for my silly question but I'm not a mechanic

Thanks

Good luck tomorrow hope it is all ok. Just a quick hint before you pull the distributor, you might want to turn the motor over by hand and get the rotor in the distributor to point at #1 cylinder. that way when you drop in the new one you can just line the new rotor up to #1 on the new distributor and it should be very close when you drop it in.

 

[CZ-75]

If you take the cap off of the distributor, you will see that inside there is a rotor that spins with the crank shaft. This is what tells teh spark plugs when to fire.

It is important to have that rotor pointing to the same point when you re-install the distributor, or else your plugs will fire at the wrong time.

So before you take the distributor off, take a grease pen (china marker) and mark where the rotor is pointing to. That way, you can get it correct when you re-install. Just don't turn the engine while the distributor is off.

 

[turtle5353]

the #1 cylinder is the front passenger side cylinder. follow that spark plug wire to the distributor cap. mark that spot on the housing of the distributor. pull off the cap. you will see the rotor underneath. you want to turn your motor over til the rotor points to the mark you made on your distributor. You can then pull the old distributor. and check the oil pump shaft and the gear on the end of distributor. When you drop in the new distributor locate where #1 plug wire goes and make a mark on the distributor housing. Line up your rotor with that mark and drop the distributor in. you will have to wiggle it back and forth to get it to go but you will be close enough to start it.

You can search on youtube or google it and find a similar way. Hope this wasn't too confusing for ya! Good luck.

 

[will e]

Sorry I didn't understand well

How do I have to do it ?

Sorry for my silly question but I'm not a mechanic

Thanks

Good luck tomorrow hope it is all ok. Just a quick hint before you pull the distributor, you might want to turn the motor over by hand and get the rotor in the distributor to point at #1 cylinder. that way when you drop in the new one you can just line the new rotor up to #1 on the new distributor and it should be very close when you drop it in.

Under the distributor cap is a 'rotor'. Each cylinder has a spark plug wire attached to the distributor cap. When it is that cylinders turn to 'fire' the rotor will be point to it. The 'firing order' and even the designation of which cylinder is #1 varies even amonth other v8 engines or even other ford engines. The picture about shows the firing order of the 351C.

It is very important to note that YOUR #1 Cyl spark plug post on the distributor cap MAY NOT be at the same position as shown in the picture. You will want to trace the spark plug wire from cylinder number one (front passenger side) to its post on the distibutor cap. This will be the #1. Mark on the outside of the distriubtor where #1 is. It has to be marked in a way you can use it with the distibutor cap off. Then remove the distributor cap. You will want to rotate the engine until the rotor is pointing to the mark you made. This can be done by 'bumping' the starter (turn the key to the start position quickly) but it is almost impossible to line up so most people do it 'by hand'.

To do it by hand you can either take a large socket and socket wrench to the large nut on the front of the motor that is inside the large pully and turn the engine over (rotate) or often times if you just grab the large pully with your hands the engine can be rotated. Watch your fingers.

As you turn the engine over by hand you will meet some resistance as each piston takes a turn on its compression stroke. Just stop for a few seconds, you will hear the pressure being released and it will be easy to turn again. If you accidently 'pass' your mark it is okay to rotate the engine in the opposite direction a little.

Let us know if this isn't clear. I see you are in Italy and I do not know how good your english is. Some phrases don't translate well, like 'turn over the engine' is actually just rotating the moving assembly.

 

[Dallas]

Thanks a lot again for all your support

The explication was excellent

Tomorrow I will do the job and I'll let you know

Dallas

Sorry I didn't understand well

How do I have to do it ?

Sorry for my silly question but I'm not a mechanic

Thanks

Good luck tomorrow hope it is all ok. Just a quick hint before you pull the distributor, you might want to turn the motor over by hand and get the rotor in the distributor to point at #1 cylinder. that way when you drop in the new one you can just line the new rotor up to #1 on the new distributor and it should be very close when you drop it in.

Under the distributor cap is a 'rotor'. Each cylinder has a spark plug wire attached to the distributor cap. When it is that cylinders turn to 'fire' the rotor will be point to it. The 'firing order' and even the designation of which cylinder is #1 varies even amonth other v8 engines or even other ford engines. The picture about shows the firing order of the 351C.

It is very important to note that YOUR #1 Cyl spark plug post on the distributor cap MAY NOT be at the same position as shown in the picture. You will want to trace the spark plug wire from cylinder number one (front passenger side) to its post on the distibutor cap. This will be the #1. Mark on the outside of the distriubtor where #1 is. It has to be marked in a way you can use it with the distibutor cap off. Then remove the distributor cap. You will want to rotate the engine until the rotor is pointing to the mark you made. This can be done by 'bumping' the starter (turn the key to the start position quickly) but it is almost impossible to line up so most people do it 'by hand'.

To do it by hand you can either take a large socket and socket wrench to the large nut on the front of the motor that is inside the large pully and turn the engine over (rotate) or often times if you just grab the large pully with your hands the engine can be rotated. Watch your fingers.

As you turn the engine over by hand you will meet some resistance as each piston takes a turn on its compression stroke. Just stop for a few seconds, you will hear the pressure being released and it will be easy to turn again. If you accidently 'pass' your mark it is okay to rotate the engine in the opposite direction a little.

Let us know if this isn't clear. I see you are in Italy and I do not know how good your english is. Some phrases don't translate well, like 'turn over the engine' is actually just rotating the moving assembly.

 

[midlife]

Here in the US, I would have the mechanic that worked on your engine take responsibility for determining the source of your unusual noise. Once you start removing parts, that shop will claim that the damage was caused by you and not them. My advice is not to touch anything until that shop/mechanic looks at your engine and diagnoses what is wrong. It is their responsibility to fix what is broken if they are at fault.

 

[cheezsnake]

With my first Mustang, I accidentally installed a 351W distributor in my Cleveland engine. Can't remember how long the engine ran (poorly) before the camshaft gear was ground down. Since you were able to drive it a few miles, I don't know this would be the problem, but it will be interesting to see what the distributor gear looks like when you pull it.

 

[will e]

I agree with midlife. In the very least you should ask them to be there when you remove the distributor. If the drive shaft is not in place they are responsible.

When you do remove the distributor you have two options. As mentioned before you can have the rotor already pointing to #1 cyl or you can mark where the rotor is currently pointing and get as close to that as you can when you install the new distributor.

Some additional thoughts. To remove the distributor you will remove the hold down. The distributor actually comes out pretty easy. Pull it out slowly. After 10 or 20 centimeters of upward travel go ahead and give it a little bit of a shake. The oil pump shaft we have been talking about sometimes tries to come out with the distributor. A little bit of shaking/movement might help it not rise up with the distributor. As you pull the distributor up you will notice that the rotor moves. Make a mental note of the direction and distance. When you install the distributor the rotor will move in the opposite direction but about the same distance.

Since the oil shaft slides into the bottom of the distributor it is not uncommon when you are putting in a new distributor for the shaft to not line up with the distributor. This will keep you from being able to set the distributor in place easily. What you might have to do is move the rotor back and forth a little as you install the distributor. If it just doesn't seem to want to seat you will want to use some long nose pliers and carefully turn the oil pump rod slightly. Another alternative is to rotate the rotor a little more before installing so that it grabs the 'next tooth' on the gear. This may mean that when you do get the distributor properly seated it isn't pointing to the exact same place it was when you removed the old one. This is not a problem. Just turn the base of the distributor in the same direction to compensate. The timing will need to be adjusted regardless of how well the installation goes, you are just trying to get it close to where it was before.

I know that is a lot but replacing the distributor is actually not difficult normally and there are just a few things to know if it doesn't go easy.

 

[cudak888]

Great pic JoJo!!!!

Getting that damn thing to line up with the socket st the bottom of the dizzy can be frustrating when installing the dizzy.

Bump (and I mean bump) the starter when you've got the dizzy and rotor in place. Drops right in.

Just make absolutely sure that you know where the rotor was pointing when you pulled it out and how many degrees it rotated when you pulled it out, due to the angled cut of the gear drive - as per will e's directions above.

When installing, back the rotor enough to compensate for that angled cut, then bump the starter. Should be no more than 5 degrees forward of your mark when it goes in.

-Kurt

 

[Dallas]

Unfortunately my friend we are Italy and here things don't go as in the US ( where shortly I will move to live )

The mother lover ( to be polite ) of the so called mechanic told me that since the car it's vintage and very hold it was not his fault and he will not be responsible for anything

Can you believe it ?

He charged me 250 USD to replace the distributor and he screw up my Stang

I hope to be able, with your help, to replace a new one

Thanks

Dallas

Here in the US, I would have the mechanic that worked on your engine take responsibility for determining the source of your unusual noise. Once you start removing parts, that shop will claim that the damage was caused by you and not them. My advice is not to touch anything until that shop/mechanic looks at your engine and diagnoses what is wrong. It is their responsibility to fix what is broken if they are at fault.

 

[cudak888]

The mother lover ( to be polite ) of the so called mechanic told me that since the car it's vintage and very hold it was not his fault and he will not be responsible for anything

1. Horse's head
   
2. Use mechanic as replacement oil pump.
   
3. Wait until he screws up a 250 GTO, and let the rich guy tear the mechanic to shreds for you. Just make sure to get ringside tickets.
   

-Kurt

 

[Dallas]

I will book the tickets today ::beer::

The mother lover ( to be polite ) of the so called mechanic told me that since the car it's vintage and very hold it was not his fault and he will not be responsible for anything

1. Horse's head
   
2. Use mechanic as replacement oil pump.
   
3. Wait until he screws up a 250 GTO, and let the rich guy tear the mechanic to shreds for you. Just make sure to get ringside tickets.
   

-Kurt

 

[Luke]

Dallas that sucks mate. Remember dig the grave long before you choose the gun

You wouldn't have a friend in Naples that you could send him to visit. You know Camorra type friend

 

[Dallas]

Since I have relatives in Calabria, I will call'em to dig the grave to the suckamechanic

Dallas that sucks mate. Remember dig the grave long before you choose the gun

You wouldn't have a friend in Naples that you could send him to visit. You know Camorra type friend

I pull out the old distributor but I've noted ( as per attached pics ), hat it's a little bit longer that the old one.

The strange thing is that with the old one the car used to run perfectly compared to the new one

The new distrubutor doesn't have ( at least for what a can see ), signs of damaging but I don't know that thhis have something to see with the awful noise

I took also some pics of the hole where the distributor shaft it's placed and I've noted ( taking a look in the upper left part of the round hole ), that it's pretty dry I mean there isn't any grease of lubrication

Tomorrow I will try to installl the old distributor just to see if the noise will disappear

Sorry again for my silly question but do you think that I could pour some oil in the hole where the distribtor is placed to lubricate ?

The engine oil has a good level but maybe this it's something that has nothing to see with the oil pump

Do you suggest me to take of also the oil pan to see if someting it's wrong ?

I start to think to a most complicated problem ( a cylinder or some mojor damaging of the engine )

I hope no

Thanks again

Dallas

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Great pic JoJo!!!!

Getting that damn thing to line up with the socket st the bottom of the dizzy can be frustrating when installing the dizzy.

Bump (and I mean bump) the starter when you've got the dizzy and rotor in place. Drops right in.

Just make absolutely sure that you know where the rotor was pointing when you pulled it out and how many degrees it rotated when you pulled it out, due to the angled cut of the gear drive - as per will e's directions above.

When installing, back the rotor enough to compensate for that angled cut, then bump the starter. Should be no more than 5 degrees forward of your mark when it goes in.

-Kurt