351 Cleveland 2V awful noise

[Dallas]

Just one question

Are the pix that I've posted visible ?

Since I have relatives in Calabria, I will call'em to dig the grave to the suckamechanic

Dallas that sucks mate. Remember dig the grave long before you choose the gun

You wouldn't have a friend in Naples that you could send him to visit. You know Camorra type friend

I pull out the old distributor but I've noted ( as per attached pics ), hat it's a little bit longer that the old one.

The strange thing is that with the old one the car used to run perfectly compared to the new one

The new distrubutor doesn't have ( at least for what a can see ), signs of damaging but I don't know that thhis have something to see with the awful noise

I took also some pics of the hole where the distributor shaft it's placed and I've noted ( taking a look in the upper left part of the round hole ), that it's pretty dry I mean there isn't any grease of lubrication

Tomorrow I will try to installl the old distributor just to see if the noise will disappear

Sorry again for my silly question but do you think that I could pour some oil in the hole where the distribtor is placed to lubricate ?

The engine oil has a good level but maybe this it's something that has nothing to see with the oil pump

Do you suggest me to take of also the oil pan to see if someting it's wrong ?

I start to think to a most complicated problem ( a cylinder or some mojor damaging of the engine )

I hope no

Thanks again

Dallas

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Great pic JoJo!!!!

Getting that damn thing to line up with the socket st the bottom of the dizzy can be frustrating when installing the dizzy.

Bump (and I mean bump) the starter when you've got the dizzy and rotor in place. Drops right in.

Just make absolutely sure that you know where the rotor was pointing when you pulled it out and how many degrees it rotated when you pulled it out, due to the angled cut of the gear drive - as per will e's directions above.

When installing, back the rotor enough to compensate for that angled cut, then bump the starter. Should be no more than 5 degrees forward of your mark when it goes in.

-Kurt

 

[turtle5353]

That definately don't look like the right distributor. Maybe you got one from a 351 Windsor instead of Cleveland.

 

[JimNiki]

Maybe it's a coincidence but maybe your starter motor is faulty and not engaging back? Just a thought since you mentioned that it sounds like it's coming from the bottom. Or maybe something fell down the dizzy hole as the mechanic was swapping....

Not trying to scare you, but it's always better to be safe than sorry...

Hi from Australia anyway and welcome to the best mustang site on the net.

Jim.

 

[jbojo]

This is a good thread that got me to do some research. To check the distributor the location of the gear for a 351C should be 4.031 (10.239 cm) to 4.038 inches (10.257 cm) from the bottom of the mounting flange on the distributor to the bottom of the gear, This will give you the proper clearances so that the gear won't bind and have premature wear.

-jbojo

Also I verified that the WDS DST2813 distributor from Rock Auto is the correct one for the 351C.

 

[Dallas]

Ok my friends, the situation it's getting worse

I've pulled out the distributor and it's the right one for the Ford Cleveland engine 351 C 2V

When I istalled again the distributor the drive shaft of the oil pump was engaged in the proper way , but what I started the engine, the noise still persist

What do you suggest me to do now ?

Change the oil pump ?

This operation it would be pretty easy or hard to do ?

Could I try to pull out the oil pan to see if there is somethig inside ?

How can I be sure that the oil pump drive shaft it's engaged properly ?

Help me please

Do you think that it could be something worse than the oil pump as a cylinder ? A bearing ?

This is a good thread that got me to do some research. To check the distributor the location of the gear for a 351C should be 4.031 (10.239 cm) to 4.038 inches (10.257 cm) from the bottom of the mounting flange on the distributor to the bottom of the gear, This will give you the proper clearances so that the gear won't bind and have premature wear.

-jbojo

Also I verified that the WDS DST2813 distributor from Rock Auto is the correct one for the 351C.

 

[will e]

That's too bad.

Do you have gauges and did it show oil pressure? And the motor seems to run okay?

There are 'oil priming' tools available. Here in the United States many of the auto parts stores have them and will loan them to you. You remove the distributor, put the primer in place and then using an electric hand drill you can rotate the pump. (counter clockwise) If you don't feel resistance from the drill it would indicate a possible problem with the oil pump or oiling system.

At this point it would be very helpful to get a video of it. You can post video's in photobucket accounts. If it is a short video you can email it to me and I will post it up.

If it is 'something worse' I would expect a bearing since the motor seems to run.

 

[cudak888]

At this point it would be very helpful to get a video of it. You can post video's in photobucket accounts. If it is a short video you can email it to me and I will post it up.

^

Advice: If using a consumer-grade camcorder, place it on a tripod about 10 feet from the car, and don't move it around when filming the sound.

That'll cut down on hand noise, and the sound of the engine will be less likely to peak the crappy little mic and auto-preamps installed in these cameras.

-Kurt

 

[Dallas]

Thanks a lot for all your tips

Now that I remember ( but I'm talking about a couple of years ago ), when I use to drive my Stang the indicator of the oil pressure was in the middle but when I use to drive in the traffic jam, the oil pressure went to zero; this is just an info that I'd like to tell you.

About the oil priming tool, could you please suggest me where to buy one ? Maybe at Summit or maybe I could ask to a mechanic here in Italy

Thanks

Dallas

At this point it would be very helpful to get a video of it. You can post video's in photobucket accounts. If it is a short video you can email it to me and I will post it up.

^

Advice: If using a consumer-grade camcorder, place it on a tripod about 10 feet from the car, and don't move it around when filming the sound.

That'll cut down on hand noise, and the sound of the engine will be less likely to peak the crappy little mic and auto-preamps installed in these cameras.

-Kurt

Ok I got it I saw a video

I will try to make my homemade priming tool with my drill and I will let you know

Thanks again

Dallas

That's too bad.

Do you have gauges and did it show oil pressure? And the motor seems to run okay?

There are 'oil priming' tools available. Here in the United States many of the auto parts stores have them and will loan them to you. You remove the distributor, put the primer in place and then using an electric hand drill you can rotate the pump. (counter clockwise) If you don't feel resistance from the drill it would indicate a possible problem with the oil pump or oiling system.

At this point it would be very helpful to get a video of it. You can post video's in photobucket accounts. If it is a short video you can email it to me and I will post it up.

If it is 'something worse' I would expect a bearing since the motor seems to run.

 

[JimNiki]

For all the mucking around, If most of us here had metallic noises coming from the engine, we'd be pulling the sump off straight away.

It's not a hard job. Take off the 4 engine mount bolts, jackup the engine about an inch to give you clearance from the front stabiliser and you'll be able to take the pan off . then I would take the oil pump off easily enough.

Just do it, it's not worth it. It's a lot simpler than pulling the motor to rebuild it if you are starving it of oil.

 

[cudak888]

For all the mucking around, If most of us here had metallic noises coming from the engine, we'd be pulling the sump off straight away.

It's not a hard job. Take off the 4 engine mount bolts, jackup the engine about an inch to give you clearance from the front stabiliser and you'll be able to take the pan off.

^

Warning to the wise: Getting the pan back on a 351C without leaks is more of an effort than getting it off.

Search the forum for re-sealing techniques before taking it off.

-Kurt

 

[Dallas]

Ok my friends

Problem number one

I don't have a drill that rotate counter clockwise

Problem number two

I don't even have a oil pump primer tool to engage in the oil pump shaft and try to see if there is a resistence rotating it counter clockwise

How can I try to detect if the iol pump it's working with another method without using a oil pump primer ?

Could I use a wrench to engage the oil pump shaft and rotate it counter clockwise manually ?

Do you think that it would be better take ogg the oil pan and change the oil pump or do you think that it would be better to hang myself or burn my Stang or kill the mechanic ?

Dallas

For all the mucking around, If most of us here had metallic noises coming from the engine, we'd be pulling the sump off straight away.

It's not a hard job. Take off the 4 engine mount bolts, jackup the engine about an inch to give you clearance from the front stabiliser and you'll be able to take the pan off.

^

Warning to the wise: Getting the pan back on a 351C without leaks is more of an effort than getting it off.

Search the forum for re-sealing techniques before taking it off.

-Kurt

 

[will e]

You can try a socket, there should be some resistance. This will help confirm if the shaft is broken or not.

Try not to get too frustrated. Owning a Mustang in Italy is going to be a challenge. That's why you don't see many and what makes it really cool that you own one.

I would like to see a short video on the noise. At this point it seems too early to drop the oil pan. If you are curious about the condition of the engine you can do a compression test on it. Good compression is a good sign that the rotating assembly is in good shape. It won't tell us if you spun a bearing or not and if you find you have NO compression on one or more cyl you know you have a bigger issue.

 

[cudak888]

Do you think that it would be better take ogg the oil pan and change the oil pump or do you think that it would be better to hang myself or burn my Stang or kill the mechanic ?Dallas

Are you sure your drill doesn't have a reverse mode? If it does, you have counter-clockwise function.

At any rate, invest in the tools you need. Don't hang yourself and don't burn the Stang (if you consider it, Luxstang will gladly drive a few miles over to dispose of it for you ). However, once the problem has been rectified and you are armed with the knowledge of what the mechanic did wrong, form a lynch mob.

-Kurt

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

Do we bring our own rope, pitchfork and torches, or will they be supplied? I'm not sure what the airline will let me transport.

Good luck-stick to it and you will get through this.

 

[cudak888]

Do we bring our own rope, pitchfork and torches, or will they be supplied? I'm not sure what the airline will let me transport.

You'll have to get creative. Borrow some pizza and pastry cutters from the closest restaurant .

Jokes aside, I'm as interested to know what is wrong as I am interested to know what the mechanic did to cause the problem.

-Kurt

 

[Dallas]

Tomorrow I will do the video

Just let me ask you a question

Since in the few next months I will move to Los Angeles to live, do you think that it could be a good idea wait a little more and fix my Stang in the US ?

Do you have an idea about how much I could spend to rebuild or refurbish the 351 Cleveland engine in the US ?

In Italy they asked me between 2000 and 5000 USD, another guy today ( sort of mechanic ), told me that in his opinion the oil pump doesn't have nothing to see with the noise, sine the oil pump doesn't lubricate the pistons.

I'm very confused and sad at the same time because time is passing by and my Stang keep to stay in the garage without be used and every day is getting worse

Do we bring our own rope, pitchfork and torches, or will they be supplied? I'm not sure what the airline will let me transport.

You'll have to get creative. Borrow some pizza and pastry cutters from the closest restaurant .

Jokes aside, I'm as interested to know what is wrong as I am interested to know what the mechanic did to cause the problem.

-Kurt

 

[cudak888]

If it's only a few months, wait until you're over here. Even your average hack-job LA mechanic would probably be better than the jokers you're describing to us, and I bet one of our members in the area would be glad to help out.

That "sort-of-mechanic" doesn't know the first thing about how your engine works. Don't listen to him. Oil pump is the source of lubrication on your engine, PERIOD.

A few months of inactivity won't hurt it (especially if the problem is serious). My own car sat for 3 years without being started up, and hadn't moved for another 11 due to a rear-end accident. I had no problem at all starting it up from its slumber after putting Marvel Mystery Oil in the cylinders, new spark plugs, and turning the engine over a few times by hand (breaker bar and socket).

-Kurt

 

[Dallas]

Thanks again for your advices and your suppport.

I've already contacted a shipping company and will charge about 2000 USD to ship the car from Italy ( Genova sea port ) to Los Ageles sea port.

EPA told me that since the car has more that 21 years and it's matching number and registered in the US then export to Italy I won't have to pass any inspection for the contamination.

IRS and US Custom,told me that since the car it's my private car I won't have to pay any duties once that the car will clear the US Custom, so I was seriusy thinking to wait to fix and the car and do it in the US.

Here in Italy it's impossible to find the spare parts so I should order to Summit or NPD wait a lot, pay the custom duties but even worse, risk to spend 2500 or 3500 USD to fix the car but having the car not fixed.

Thanks again

Dallas

If it's only a few months, wait until you're over here. Even your average hack-job LA mechanic would probably be better than the jokers you're describing to us, and I bet one of our members in the area would be glad to help out.

That "sort-of-mechanic" doesn't know the first thing about how your engine works. Don't listen to him. Oil pump is the source of lubrication on your engine, PERIOD.

A few months of inactivity won't hurt it (especially if the problem is serious). My own car sat for 3 years without being started up, and hadn't moved for another 11 due to a rear-end accident. I had no problem at all starting it up from its slumber after putting Marvel Mystery Oil in the cylinders, new spark plugs, and turning the engine over a few times by hand (breaker bar and socket).

-Kurt

Today I argue again with the ******* Italian mechanic and he told me that when he "opened" the engine to redone the valves and the valve seats he realize that one piston has some mecanic play on the cylinder and for this reason the engime must be redone ( he asked me 5000 USD ).

Then another ***...italian mechanic made the compression tests on the engine and told me the engine was good but he charged me 2000 USD to set the carburator and install two Flowmaster 40 second hand and repair the mufflers. One I picke up my baby she stopped after 2 miles.

Then he asked me 1000 USD to change the fuel tank ( fuel tank bought in LA by myself spending 150 USD ) and I told to this ***...go to hell

That's italy my friends, can you believe it ?

Do we bring our own rope, pitchfork and torches, or will they be supplied? I'm not sure what the airline will let me transport.

You'll have to get creative. Borrow some pizza and pastry cutters from the closest restaurant .

Jokes aside, I'm as interested to know what is wrong as I am interested to know what the mechanic did to cause the problem.

-Kurt

 

[jbojo]

Thanks again for your advices and your suppport.

I've already contacted a shipping company and will charge about 2000 USD to ship the car from Italy ( Genova sea port ) to Los Ageles sea port.

EPA told me that since the car has more that 21 years and it's matching number and registered in the US then export to Italy I won't have to pass any inspection for the contamination.

IRS and US Custom,told me that since the car it's my private car I won't have to pay any duties once that the car will clear the US Custom, so I was seriusy thinking to wait to fix and the car and do it in the US.

Here in Italy it's impossible to find the spare parts so I should order to Summit or NPD wait a lot, pay the custom duties but even worse, risk to spend 2500 or 3500 USD to fix the car but having the car not fixed.

Thanks again

Dallas

Dallas,

Yeah I would wait till you get to the US. There are a lot of members in the area that I am sure will help you diagnose the problems.

-jbojo

 

[Dallas]

Here the situation

We pull out the oil pan and we found the alumium powder of the bearings ( that's why the noise of friction ) and we found out that the rod are dry because the oil pump was gone and didn't lubricate and now here in f..... italy the told me that I have to rebuild the engine and waste around 5,000 USD

They are offering me 11,000 USD to buy the car like it is now with the engine broken and since I have to move to live and work to Los Angeles, I was thinking about this offer

What do you think ?

What could you suggest me ?

With a car like this I cannot sell to pivate here in Italy and the only option it's to sell to a car dealer knowing that they will offer very few money, but the other option it would be spend 1500/2000 USD to ship tthe car to LA then fix it there

Dallas