351c 2v cam question

[71ProjectJunk]

I either copied it from this post or we got the info from the same place.

https://7173mustangs.com/threads/71-73-351c-original-cam-specs.8271/post-397451

I have seen that chart before, and It seems to be incorrect, at least on the duration at .050. These are the specs I had seen before for the 351 C 2V stock cam, they seem to be correct:
Intake

Centerline , ATDC.... 109
Duation( at .050).... 192
Lobe lift(in)........ .247
Rocker arm Ration.... 1.73

Exhaust

Centerline, BTDC..... 111
Duration(.050) ...... 198
Max lobe lift........ 250
Rocker arm.......... 1.73

Calculated cam specs..

Lobe seperation angle..110
Intake lift ...........427
Exhaust................433

 

[71ProjectJunk]

I also found this thread here on a member with a 73 convertible with a 351 C 2V heads, FMX transmission, and 3.50 gears using the Comp 218/224 cam, same basic specs as the OP's car. There is a video of him running the through the gears, seems to be running really strong, and the owner is happy with the performance he is getting:
https://7173mustangs.com/threads/351-cleveland-cam.24064/

 

[Ron Tanzi]

I want to offer a warning Re: Comp cams, their lifter are junk and their lobe ramps are ground in a way that causes excess valve train noise. I will never use another one of their camshafts. I have consulted with a few Mopar guys that have run into the same issues with Comp. I feel I would be remiss if I did not put this out there.

Ron

 

[Mister 4x4]

I also found this thread here on a member with a 73 convertible with a 351 C 2V heads, FMX transmission, and 3.50 gears using the Comp 218/224 cam, same basic specs as the OP's car. There is a video of him running the through the gears, seems to be running really strong, and the owner is happy with the performance he is getting:
https://7173mustangs.com/threads/351-cleveland-cam.24064/

Yup - the video running through the gears was Doc, one of the early members and his cam/valvetrain upgrade was pretty much what I went with after seeing those videos of his. I haven't wrung mine out quite as thoroughly as he did in those videos, but mine's pretty close (his 3.50s vs. my 3.00s make a good bit of difference, after all).

Everybody has their preferences on these things or those, usually based on personal experience. I couldn't be more happy with how my engine turned out, and have had zero issues with the combination of components I chose. If CompCams has really taken a nose dive in quality, then I count myself lucky that my CompCams products are hangin' in there.

 

[Ron Tanzi]

Yup - the video running through the gears was Doc, one of the early members and his cam/valvetrain upgrade was pretty much what I went with after seeing those videos of his. I haven't wrung mine out quite as thoroughly as he did in those videos, but mine's pretty close (his 3.50s vs. my 3.00s make a good bit of difference, after all).

Everybody has their preferences on these things or those, usually based on personal experience. I couldn't be more happy with how my engine turned out, and have had zero issues with the combination of components I chose. If CompCams has really taken a nose dive in quality, then I count myself lucky that my CompCams products are hangin' in there.

I don't like saying negative things about manufacturers. My opinion is based upon my personal experience and that of others. Your set up works well and makes you happy. That is all that really matters. Especially these days.


Ron

 

[Don C]

You aren't the only one who has had problems with Comp Cams lifters, Ron. They have been mentioned several times on our forum (as well as others).

 

[Ron Tanzi]

You aren't the only one who has had problems with Comp Cams lifters, Ron. They have been mentioned several times on our forum (as well as others).

Thanks Don, I had my intake off 3 times since I built the engine in 2002. I got a "free" replacement lifter set from Comp under warranty and had the same noise issue. My installation procedure was spot on to a T. Then I said well F$%# this and tried a set of Crower lifters which is what is in it now. The noise situation improved a bunch but not perfect. I want perfect. The research I have done points to the aggressive opening and closing ramps Comp uses is the problem coupled with their ****** lifters. I have a Sealed power CS-650 cam which has a similar profile to a factory CJ cam on stand-by with an Isky "quiet" lifter set and all associated parts for install. Just got to find the time when I can be left alone.

Ron

 

[mrgmhale]

You will be fighting the adverse impact of the 2.8:1 rear axle gears forever, despite how strong the engine is built. I find the 3.5:1 rear axle ratio is a decent compromise between street performance and highway speed driving. You could go to an even lower rear axle ratio, but if you do you ought to consider an overdrive tranny. We dropped an AOD into our 73 Mach 1 that has a street/strip built 351W (not C). It is a pretty fast car, surprisingly fast. But our 1969 and 2020 Shelbys GT500s are faster. I am certain we would make mince meat of a lot of the street built rice rockets IF I were inclined to race one. But, I am so past that. Now I focus on terrific performance for the sake of having it, and comfortable cruising in a nice looking vehicle.

 

[jpaz]

Thanks Don, I had my intake off 3 times since I built the engine in 2002. I got a "free" replacement lifter set from Comp under warranty and had the same noise issue. My installation procedure was spot on to a T. Then I said well F$%# this and tried a set of Crower lifters which is what is in it now. The noise situation improved a bunch but not perfect. I want perfect. The research I have done points to the aggressive opening and closing ramps Comp uses is the problem coupled with their ****** lifters. I have a Sealed power CS-650 cam which has a similar profile to a factory CJ cam on stand-by with an Isky "quiet" lifter set and all associated parts for install. Just got to find the time when I can be left alone.

Ron

I have a Crower camshaft and lifters. I had them installed after a complete engine rebuild about 3 years ago and the lifters collapsed after a couple of hundred miles. I got a replacement set from them and replaced them myself. I haven’t had any problems since. Guess they all can have quality control issues.

 

[71ProjectJunk]

I want to offer a warning Re: Comp cams, their lifter are junk and their lobe ramps are ground in a way that causes excess valve train noise. I will never use another one of their camshafts. I have consulted with a few Mopar guys that have run into the same issues with Comp. I feel I would be remiss if I did not put this out there.

Ron

We are back again in the "bad lifter" situation that were were in about a decade or two ago. All hydraulic lifters from all manufacturers are suspect. You are correct in bringing this up, but it is not just a Comp Cams issue, it is industry wide. Most cam companies do not make lifters, they buy them from a third party. Comp Cams has gotten most of the bad rap as they probably sell more cams than anyone else. I will be pulling my engine and changing the cam, hopefully sometime this year, and I will use hydraulic roller lifters. It is much more expensive, but it is the only way that you will be able to make sure that you do not have a lifter failure, that will wipe out your cam and put a ton of metal debris in your engine. The only way that I would put in a hydraulic cam at this point in time is if I could find some NOS lifters that were made a while ago.

 

[DAverkamp]

Thanks Don, I had my intake off 3 times since I built the engine in 2002. I got a "free" replacement lifter set from Comp under warranty and had the same noise issue. My installation procedure was spot on to a T. Then I said well F$%# this and tried a set of Crower lifters which is what is in it now. The noise situation improved a bunch but not perfect. I want perfect. The research I have done points to the aggressive opening and closing ramps Comp uses is the problem coupled with their ****** lifters. I have a Sealed power CS-650 cam which has a similar profile to a factory CJ cam on stand-by with an Isky "quiet" lifter set and all associated parts for install. Just got to find the time when I can be left alone.

Ron

I had a similar experience with CC lifters then went with Johnson's 2212 SBR's and she is smooth as silk inside the valve covers. They do ride on a CC 270/215/.566 lift/110 LS that has been been all good since the change.

 

[Ron Tanzi]

I have a Crower camshaft and lifters. I had them installed after a complete engine rebuild about 3 years ago and the lifters collapsed after a couple of hundred miles. I got a replacement set from them and replaced them myself. I haven’t had any problems since. Guess they all can have quality control issues.

We are back again in the "bad lifter" situation that were were in about a decade or two ago. All hydraulic lifters from all manufacturers are suspect. You are correct in bringing this up, but it is not just a Comp Cams issue, it is industry wide. Most cam companies do not make lifters, they buy them from a third party. Comp Cams has gotten most of the bad rap as they probably sell more cams than anyone else. I will be pulling my engine and changing the cam, hopefully sometime this year, and I will use hydraulic roller lifters. It is much more expensive, but it is the only way that you will be able to make sure that you do not have a lifter failure, that will wipe out your cam and put a ton of metal debris in your engine. The only way that I would put in a hydraulic cam at this point in time is if I could find some NOS lifters that were made a while ago.

NOS lifters would have been ideal. Ford had specific lifters for the Cleveland and I wish I bought a bunch of them when they were still around. They were also cheap 27 years ago. When I did my first build in 1995 I used a Sealed power stock 2V cam and Sealed power lifters and had no issues. I still have that cam and lifters in my stash. Part quality has been going down the tubes for a while now. It comes down to one thing: China.
Ron

 

[ScottM]

I have seen that chart before, and It seems to be incorrect, at least on the duration at .050. These are the specs I had seen before for the 351 C 2V stock cam, they seem to be correct:
Intake

Centerline , ATDC.... 109
Duation( at .050).... 192
Lobe lift(in)........ .247
Rocker arm Ration.... 1.73

Exhaust

Centerline, BTDC..... 111
Duration(.050) ...... 198
Max lobe lift........ 250
Rocker arm.......... 1.73

Calculated cam specs..

Lobe seperation angle..110
Intake lift ...........427
Exhaust................433

His looks a little more legit

 

[ScottM]

You will be fighting the adverse impact of the 2.8:1 rear axle gears forever, despite how strong the engine is built. I find the 3.5:1 rear axle ratio is a decent compromise between street performance and highway speed driving. You could go to an even lower rear axle ratio, but if you do you ought to consider an overdrive tranny. We dropped an AOD into our 73 Mach 1 that has a street/strip built 351W (not C). It is a pretty fast car, surprisingly fast. But our 1969 and 2020 Shelbys GT500s are faster. I am certain we would make mince meat of a lot of the street built rice rockets IF I were inclined to race one. But, I am so past that. Now I focus on terrific performance for the sake of having it, and comfortable cruising in a nice looking vehicle.

I will certainly be changing gears soon but I’m throwing $$$ at engine rebuild and paint at the moment. I rebuilt the rear and left it factory since it was 8” and I was considering 9”. I too am all about the comfort and performance at this point it just pisses me when these “kids” pull up and think they have muscle.

 

[Ron Tanzi]

I am rebuilding a 2v engine (D2AE-CA). I believe that casting with the 2v heads makes it an H code. So I am going to ask the same question that has been asked a million times. I'm having trouble figuring out what cam to go with. Here is the scoop.

USE -- this is going in a 71 vert. It is gonna be a weekend cruiser with the wife. However, I want to scare the sh** out of the little punks who pull up next to me at a light in their Supra's and Miata's . I don't want to get crazy HP just good torque and a better than stock lope.

SPECS

1. FMX tranny
2. 2.80 rear gears
3. stock stall converter
4. standard bore with flat top pistons (which should increase CR a little)
5. Edelbrock 2750 performer intake
6. Edelbrock 1406 carb (600cfm)
7. Pertronix dizzy

HEADS -- stock springs, push rods, valves

Any suggestions are appreciated...I've been researching but there are just soooo many dang options I have confused myself...

Did you mean 2.75 gears? I assume you have a 9" rear end. I ran your exact set up many years ago and it ran very well. This was after screwing around with jetting and metering rods in the Edlebrock carb for about a month. I went to a Holley 600 4150 vac secondary later on with all the same parts and it was better (idle, response). Then another full overhaul and a proper rebuild of the heads (replace your valves!!) and just a cam change and it woke it up big time with no other changes except having the crank balanced and new rod bolts. The stock 2V cam makes very good torque and is easy on the valvetrain due to it's low lift. I have been running an MSD 6A box and a Pertronix ignitor in a stock distributor for about 26 years. What gives me little solace is that I all my parts were still made in America then. The FMX gets a bad rap, it is a pretty durable transmission. Mine has been untouched except for a vacuum modulator and about 4 fluid changes since new. That transmission was made 50 years ago and has 156 thousand miles on it. Even with 2V heads I am a fan of the CJ cam or some close version of it. It works nice.

Ron