4 core radiator.....

[71MACH-1]

Will a 4 core radiator fit in the factory fan shroud for a 71 Mach 1?

 

[caspianwendell]

I have not been shopping for a radiator for my 71 as of yet but from past experience with my 68 (3 core hi flow, 4 core, electric fans, and everything else that didn't keep it cool) I found a 2 core high performance aluminum radiator did the trick. The radiator had two, one inch rows that flowed very nice and I have never had a cooling problem again so that's what I will be putting in my 71 if I have to have it made

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

I installed a Griffin Aluminum recently and a hi flow pump and it cools my car wonderfully, but I had already converted to electric. I can say it would be probably necessitate a different (shorter) fan spacer

 

[71MACH-1]

It gets too hot only with AC on. I have an aftermarket crappy open shroud with double core . No insulation either, I think

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

The Griffin was a good choice for me. The quality of construction was great. Advance auto Masterpro lower hose 20694 c0694 was a nice fit after trimming 1 1/2 inch or so from each side.

Griffin also offers a universal fit that has the right dimensions for under 200.00

I got a high flow aluminum pump from Jegs for just over a hundred bucks.

I was shocked at how much of a difference it made.

All that being said, I would flush the system check that I had a true cleveland compatible thermostat (don't trust the part monkeys if you don't know what I am talking about PM me) make sure your restrictor plate is in place and refill with 70% water 30 % anti freeze and see if that helps

 

[Wolverine]

cleveland compatible thermostat (don't trust the part monkeys if you don't know what I am talking about PM me) make sure your restrictor plate

Beware the evil bypass restrictor plate. Every Cleveland owner needs to know whether they have one and act accordingly, lest the demons of heat destroy your prized CO2 spewing thermodynamic machine.

 

[Bill73Ragtop]

Will a 4 core radiator fit in the factory fan shroud for a 71 Mach 1?

Yes. I installed what was called a Desert Special back in the mid-90's with a 351c M-code. Worked almost too well. I needed to run a 195 F thermostat to bring the temp up to optimum operating range. Even with A/C running at idle in 90+ temps, it ran right at 190 temp.

Interestingly enough, it developed a leak a couple years ago so I re-installed the original (re-cored) two row while the 4-row was being repaired. The 2-row cools just as well as the 4-row ever did. Since that time the 4-row sits in storage as a spare.

 

[71MACH-1]

Update....

Have restrictor bypass plate

Wrong thermostat ( no hat)

Radiator is clogged up with crap needs to be riddled and cleaned/flushed

Will update when back together.....

 

[73StangCoupe]

cleveland compatible thermostat (don't trust the part monkeys if you don't know what I am talking about PM me) make sure your restrictor plate

Beware the evil bypass restrictor plate. Every Cleveland owner needs to know whether they have one and act accordingly, lest the demons of heat destroy your prized CO2 spewing thermodynamic machine.

Stupid question, how can I find out? I don't have any overheating issues with my 351C.

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

Go read this page, it gives all the applicable part numbers pictures etc.

http://351cleveland.wetpaint.com/page/pr...thermostat

The Cleveland cooling system is ahead of it's time. Using an internal bypass passage it circulates coolant in a loop thru the block until the thermostat opens which eliminates hot spots. The thermostat seals against a brass restrictor plate (these are sometimes missing and if it isn't there, you can find them on eBay as a last resort for 45 bucks)

Parts monkeys like to sell Windsor thermostats and some companies list the same one for both, but they are not properly interchangeable.

When I got my car with low compression heads and a mild cam it would overheat badly in traffic.

I added high compression heads, Air conditioning, a high lift solid lifter cam and headers. My engine should be producing a lot more heat. I simply changed to the proper thermostat and my car ran much cooler instead.

Recently I upgraded my cooling system as I was never much better than marginal in stop and go traffic, and the extra heat from the Air conditioning was worrying me, even though I had never truly overheated.

I believe the proper thermostat makes a huge difference.Don't overfill the radiator and don't trust a gauge. Use an infrared thermometer and listen to your engine. If it starts pinging or detonating or running on, you have a problem. A little coolant puking is more a sign of being overfilled and should stop after a handful of events.


and Wolverine may have a different yet equally invalid opinion on this subject matter as evidenced by his prior reply.

 

[71MACH-1]

mechanic went against my theromstat, which is cleveland specific..... dont know why...

he used MR GASKET 4363. no brass hat....it is still running hot

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

have you checked to see if your sending unit has a poor ground due to teflon tape acting as an insulator?

The sending unit is a pipe thread and it doesn't need the teflon tape. some people use it by mistake and it causes gauges to not read properly.

 

[Wolverine]

mechanic went against my theromstat, which is cleveland specific..... dont know why...

he used MR GASKET 4363. no brass hat....it is still running hot

I think this means the mechanic did not like the cleveland specific thermostat. So he installed a NON CLEVELAND thermostat.

If this is true, then there is a shortage of water circulating around your heads....shortage of water circulation means higher temperature where the water temperature sender is located.

Suggestion 0:

Obtain 40 pounds of BLOCK ice and put them in front of your radiator. If that doesn't keep your motor cool, then it doesn't matter how big of a radiator you get. Only 1/2 kidding on this suggestion.

Suggestion 1:

To continue using the NON CLEVELAND thermostat, you need to remove(by destroying) the current bypass restrictor and replace it with the pin holed restrictor plate/washer.

Suggestion 2:

To see if your gauge is working properly,

1. With engine cold, remove water in radiator until it is below the level of the sender. Then you can remove the sender without losing radiator fluid.

2. Ground sender to battery, leave other lead attached.

3. Boil water in your wife's tea pot...water is boiling when it whistles.

4. If you have a meat thermometer, put that in the tea pot. It should be at 212F while water is boiling.

5. Put sender in teapot and turn ignition to RUN...not start.

6. Determine if gauge reading matches meat thermometer.

I believe the end of the NORMAL line on a gauge is 220F.

Suggestion 3:

TEST THE BYPASS

I have not tried this myself, but seems to me the following procedure should work.

0. Remove water from radiator until it is at a level below bypass hose on water pump.

1. With engine cold, replace bypass hose on water pump with a CLEAR hoses...only temporary.

1.1 Put water back into radiator.

2. Start up engine, observe water flow in hose.

3. When engine is COLD, water should flow. At this point water from the HEADS ONLY are circulating from the heads through the water pump back through the head.

4. When the engine is WARM and the thermostat opens, water should virtually STOP FLOWING in the clear bypass tube. If water continues to flow, then water from the heads is not being routed into the radiator and never has a chance to cool.

If you are using the proper thermostat, but the bypass is not being sealed when the engine is warm, then you need to replace the bypass restrictor with a new one, or replace it with the pinholed restrictor along with a non Cleveland thermost.

When you run this test with BOTH a pinholed restrictor and non Cleveland thermostat, the water SHOULD NEVER EVER FLOW (maybe a trickle) through the bypass. Otherwise, I really don't have a clue as to what I am talking about....

 

[71MACH-1]

What if I go without a thermostat... As he suggested??

 

[Wolverine]

Not to be brash, but

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Unfortunately, the BYPASS RESTRICTOR PLATE is not FAIL SAFE. If it were fail safe, water would circulate through the heads and then through the radiator if there was a failure in SEALING the bypass. Without the CLEVELAND thermostat OR any thermostat at all there WILL BE A FAILURE because there is NO SEAL.

By not using a thermostat you are PREVENTING the water from the heads from going into the radiator...not 100%, but probably at least 50%...no one knows for sure. If someone put a flow meter on the bypass tube we could find out...maybe I will give it a try some day when my wife buys a flow meter for a kitchen tool....why would she need a flow meter.

Anyway, the CLEVELAND is UNIQUE in having this BYPASS, and EVERY SINGLE CLEVELAND OWNER needs to be aware of the very important issue.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!


Nice gauge, radio and center console by the way....

 

[Tnfastbk]

What if I go without a thermostat... As he suggested??

More than likely will run HOT

Some info from another site

http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vintage-mustang-forum/633970-351c-overheating-no-thermostat.html

http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/thermostat-troubleshooting-1972-351c.833481/

 

[Totalled]

mechanic went against my theromstat, which is cleveland specific..... dont know why...

he used MR GASKET 4363. no brass hat....it is still running hot

Time to find a different mechanic.

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

mechanic went against my theromstat, which is cleveland specific..... dont know why...

he used MR GASKET 4363. no brass hat....it is still running hot

Time to find a different mechanic.

agree completely

When a mechanic decides he knows more than you, just because he is a mechanic and deviates from a work order it shows a complete lack of respect for the customer and a closed mind as to how to rectify problems.

Wolverine's theory is valid, but his observational skills and paint skills are roughly equivalent. There isn't a bypass hose on a cleveland engine, rather there is a passage inside the water pump and a third hole in the front cover that serve as the bypass circuit

here's a picture

http://www.aeroflowperformance.com/forums/clev_cover.jpg

So the bypass circuit has no hoses to replace. . . but you could tap into the water passages in the head if you wanted to see what was going on.

1) I'd ground the sensor body to verify that it has a good ground.

2) If that doesn't change anything, I'd replace the thermostat with the proper one. You can do it yourself in an hour or less with simple hand tools. and you can verify the restrictor plate is there and that the parts make contact while you are doing the change. If it isn't, you can get one and fix that issue.

3) If your are really running hot as verified by an infrared thermometer, then I'd suggest removing the radiator, hoses and water pump, flushing the radiator and block with a garden hose and checking your hoses for any obstructions. and replacing the water pump with a high volume pump. Milodon makes one for right at 100.00. Again, there is nothing more complicated to this work than just taking the time and doing it. Hand tools are all you need and there is no need to even crawl under the car other than to drain the radiator (if you are too short to reach thru the engine compartment and open the petcock.

After that it is onto checking head gaskets, compression, replacing radiators and spending money in far less reasonable amounts..

 

[c9zx]

As pointed out above, use the Cleveland specific thermostat. Then

check to see what the temp really is. If it is much lower than the gauge indicates read this, post #10. http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-temp-gauge?highlight=resistanc