71 429 cj vert engine tear down...

[Pastel Blue]

Yes, agreed, new cover necessary. Good thought on the different rods causing the extensive overall engine wear.

I disagree on the needing a new timing cover. Where the hole is there is just a void behind it so no water will go in the block. Also if your water pump has a back plate water won't be in that part of the timing cover to begin with.

He needs a new timing cover . That damage is from corrosion from water that came from somewhere . Rebuilding an engine is an expensive process and takes a lot of time, and to cheap out and not spend $41.00 to $78.00 for a new one when the current one has a hole the size of the grand canyon is not prudent . This is also for a car that might be worth around $80,000.00 fully restored so I see no point in trying to cut corners just to save a couple dollars on a critical part.

NEW TIMING COVER

$41.00

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-429-7-0L-460-7-5L-TIMING-COVER-KIT-69-97-/170501161887?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

$78.00

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/50301/10002/-1?CAWELAID=1710565196&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=15769068431&CATCI=aud-194567929031la-207804007511&gclid=CK3TzZmj_c0CFQNufgodeV4DGA

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It will be replaced, was my goal along.

 

[VegasFastback]

I disagree on the needing a new timing cover. Where the hole is there is just a void behind it so no water will go in the block. Also if your water pump has a back plate water won't be in that part of the timing cover to begin with.

He needs a new timing cover . That damage is from corrosion from water that came from somewhere . Rebuilding an engine is an expensive process and takes a lot of time, and to cheap out and not spend $41.00 to $78.00 for a new one when the current one has a hole the size of the grand canyon is not prudent . This is also for a car that might be worth around $80,000.00 fully restored so I see no point in trying to cut corners just to save a couple dollars on a critical part.

NEW TIMING COVER

$41.00

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-429-7-0L-460-7-5L-TIMING-COVER-KIT-69-97-/170501161887?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

$78.00

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/50301/10002/-1?CAWELAID=1710565196&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=15769068431&CATCI=aud-194567929031la-207804007511&gclid=CK3TzZmj_c0CFQNufgodeV4DGA

.

Not an issue, it WILL be replaced... I understand why you might not think it needs replacing, but reinstalling it and you would be down to the last line of defense (outer housing) by reusing the original piece. Not willing to take that chance... this is the time to change a cover like this. Cheers.

Ok. You don't have to use parts you're not comfortable with. Just thought I would speak up so you know not everyone is in consensus that the part is bad.

 

[barnett468]

When someone does a quality rebuild they use quality parts . they do not use timing covers with massive corrosion and holes in them even if they might work for year or a month or a week . they do not use used, worn, pistons or used rings or used bearings or old water pumps either.

Could that timing cover be used? . Well even if it could, since it is already so heavily corroded, I don't know why anyone would suggest that it be reused, especially since they are inexpensive. Is the person suggesting it be reused going to fly over and spend 10 hours changing it for the guy if it fails?

One would also need t see the back side of the cover and inside of the water port on that side before they could even begin to speculate whether it could be reused or not, and since none of those photos have been posted, I for one certainly can't make that speculation.

 

[Pastel Blue]

When someone does a quality rebuild they use quality parts . they do not use timing covers with massive corrosion and holes in them even if they might work for year or a month or a week . they do not use used, worn, pistons or used rings or used bearings or old water pumps either.

Could that timing cover be used? . Well even if it could, since it is already so heavily corroded, I don't know why anyone would suggest that it be reused, especially since they are inexpensive. Is the person suggesting it be reused going to fly over and spend 10 hours changing it for the guy if it fails?

One would also need t see the back side of the cover and inside of the water port on that side beffore they could even begin to speculate whether it could be reused or not, and since none of those photos have been posted, I for one certainly can't make that speculation.

......

 

[VegasFastback]

When someone does a quality rebuild they use quality parts . they do not use timing covers with massive corrosion and holes in them even if they might work for year or a month or a week . they do not use used, worn, pistons or used rings or used bearings or old water pumps either.

Could that timing cover be used? . Well even if it could, since it is already so heavily corroded, I don't know why anyone would suggest that it be reused, especially since they are inexpensive. Is the person suggesting it be reused going to fly over and spend 10 hours changing it for the guy if it fails?

One would also need t see the back side of the cover and inside of the water port on that side before they could even begin to speculate whether it could be reused or not, and since none of those photos have been posted, I for one certainly can't make that speculation.

So here's the thing. People come on here to get the opinions of others. I gave mine. Pastel Blue already decided to replace the part. Great, our opinions inform they don't decide. But you have gotten on your soapbox twice now to shout me down, and that is uncalled for. So, since you've called me out twice now I will explain my position.

That hole he's got in his timing cover is common in many 385 series engines. If you were to look at it in your hands you would see that corroded from the inside out. Also on the back side of the cover you will see that the hole is completely surrounded by metal. If you look at the block you will see a matching void in it. It's just a recess, nothing is there and a gasket completely seals it. I know these things because I have these things sitting in my garage right now as well as it being a fairly common topic at 460ford.com.

Now the reason I would use this on a restore is because of its engineering code. The cover is an external part and can easily be checked to see it is ford made or not. As such even if I personally wanted to replace it in this instance, it would be with a ford made period correct cover, which would most likely cost more than the one you found on jegs. It would also have a high chance of being thin in the exact same spot, because like I said it's a common occurrence. Keep in mind i don't think the part is actually broke. On 460s you can run water pumps without a backplate on it, but it causes cavitation, and In this instance water would go in the hole. Again this would cause zero damage to the engine because it doesn't go anywhere and is sealed by gasket. But that point is moot. Nearly everyone runs a backplate so no water will be in that area at all meaning there will be two walls between the water and the inside of the engine.

 

[TommyK]

When someone does a quality rebuild they use quality parts . they do not use timing covers with massive corrosion and holes in them even if they might work for year or a month or a week . they do not use used, worn, pistons or used rings or used bearings or old water pumps either.

Could that timing cover be used? . Well even if it could, since it is already so heavily corroded, I don't know why anyone would suggest that it be reused, especially since they are inexpensive. Is the person suggesting it be reused going to fly over and spend 10 hours changing it for the guy if it fails?

One would also need t see the back side of the cover and inside of the water port on that side before they could even begin to speculate whether it could be reused or not, and since none of those photos have been posted, I for one certainly can't make that speculation.

So here's the thing. People come on here to get the opinions of others. I gave mine. Pastel Blue already decided to replace the part. Great, our opinions inform they don't decide. But you have gotten on your soapbox twice now to shout me down, and that is uncalled for. So, since you've called me out twice now I will explain my position.

That hole he's got in his timing cover is common in many 385 series engines. If you were to look at it in your hands you would see that corroded from the inside out. Also on the back side of the cover you will see that the hole is completely surrounded by metal. If you look at the block you will see a matching void in it. It's just a recess, nothing is there and a gasket completely seals it. I know these things because I have these things sitting in my garage right now as well as it being a fairly common topic at 460ford.com.

Now the reason I would use this on a restore is because of its engineering code. The cover is an external part and can easily be checked to see it is ford made or not. As such even if I personally wanted to replace it in this instance, it would be with a ford made period correct cover, which would most likely cost more than the one you found on jegs. It would also have a high chance of being thin in the exact same spot, because like I said it's a common occurrence. Keep in mind i don't think the part is actually broke. On 460s you can run water pumps without a backplate on it, but it causes cavitation, and In this instance water would go in the hole. Again this would cause zero damage to the engine because it doesn't go anywhere and is sealed by gasket. But that point is moot. Nearly everyone runs a backplate so no water will be in that area at all meaning there will be two walls between the water and the inside of the engine.

The re-pops are hit and miss as far as quality and fitment. The OP can research that on the 460 forum as well. Caveat emptor.

 

[Pastel Blue]

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[barnett468]

::thumb::

When someone does a quality rebuild they use quality parts . they do not use timing covers with massive corrosion and holes in them even if they might work for year or a month or a week . they do not use used, worn, pistons or used rings or used bearings or old water pumps either.

Could that timing cover be used? . Well even if it could, since it is already so heavily corroded, I don't know why anyone would suggest that it be reused, especially since they are inexpensive. Is the person suggesting it be reused going to fly over and spend 10 hours changing it for the guy if it fails?

One would also need t see the back side of the cover and inside of the water port on that side before they could even begin to speculate whether it could be reused or not, and since none of those photos have been posted, I for one certainly can't make that speculation.

So here's the thing. People come on here to get the opinions of others. I gave mine. Pastel Blue already decided to replace the part. Great, our opinions inform they don't decide. But you have gotten on your soapbox twice now to shout me down, and that is uncalled for. So, since you've called me out twice now I will explain my position.

That hole he's got in his timing cover is common in many 385 series engines. If you were to look at it in your hands you would see that corroded from the inside out. Also on the back side of the cover you will see that the hole is completely surrounded by metal. If you look at the block you will see a matching void in it. It's just a recess, nothing is there and a gasket completely seals it. I know these things because I have these things sitting in my garage right now as well as it being a fairly common topic at 460ford.com.

Now the reason I would use this on a restore is because of its engineering code. The cover is an external part and can easily be checked to see it is ford made or not. As such even if I personally wanted to replace it in this instance, it would be with a ford made period correct cover, which would most likely cost more than the one you found on jegs. It would also have a high chance of being thin in the exact same spot, because like I said it's a common occurrence. Keep in mind i don't think the part is actually broke. On 460s you can run water pumps without a backplate on it, but it causes cavitation, and In this instance water would go in the hole. Again this would cause zero damage to the engine because it doesn't go anywhere and is sealed by gasket. But that point is moot. Nearly everyone runs a backplate so no water will be in that area at all meaning there will be two walls between the water and the inside of the engine.

I have not tried to "shut you down" as you imply and I am not on a "soap box" as your lengthy reply claims . I merely expanded on my opinion, it's that simple . Furthermore, if someone doesn't have fifty to $100.00 bucks to by a good timing cover for their ultra rare car, it is my opinion that they may be better off buying a car that they can afford to fix properly . The cover has a massive hole it . This implies that there are other areas that are also likely thin and without having more detailed photos of the cover AFTER it is clean or having the cover in hand to personally inspect it, in my opinion, it is far safer just to suggest he get another one unless he cleans it and looks the rest f it over very carefully . In my opinion, Pastel Blue now has sufficient information to make a reasonably informed decision about the cover, therefore, I see no reason to continue debating whether it should e changed or not.

 

[barnett468]

If you prefer an orig Ford cover, they are not hard to find . The one in the link below looks decent but I would ask for a few more close up photos of other areas before I bought it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-460-7-5L-TIMING-COVER-1969-1985-USED-OEM-D2VE-6059-AA-/381558821952?hash=item58d6ad9440:g:RDoAAOSwPc9W1dKN&vxp=mtr

Also, since your car is a 71, it may have come with a C8SE part number on the cover. not the D2 you currently have. . There is a date code on it.

February or March 1971 timing cover

 

[Pastel Blue]

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[barnett468]

That is worth $125.00 any day of the week, xlnt score . I'm glad you took my suggestion and went with that . Nothing like having the correct part numbered parts on a rare high dollar car.

 

[Pastel Blue]

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[BeerDontCount]

Wow. One more step in the process. Are you keeping it completely stock, or any tweaks planned?

Scott

 

[Pastel Blue]

Wow. One more step in the process. Are you keeping it completely stock, or any tweaks planned?

Scott

[/quote

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[TommyK]

Wow. One more step in the process. Are you keeping it completely stock, or any tweaks planned?

Scott

I won't comment on this to much right now until we go through the engine and see where it is at after cleaning, measuring, proper inspections, etc. Upon a quick visual inspection of the block when I dropped it off this morning, the machinist raised a possible red flag concerning cyl #1... There may be a 3/8" crack in the lower portion of the cylinder wall, will have to wait and see until it is properly inspected.

Also, someone has done some previous "manual" deburring of the lower block - cylinder areas, maybe to allow for a stroke kit previously? It was not done professionally with the proper equipment, but they were definitely looking for some additional lower end cylinder wall area clearance. There was no evidence of a stroker set up in the engine when I got the car, but 44 years..., who knows. I will have to wait and see what he comes back with, but I did give him the green light to "build it right". We will review the options on what to install as the build progresses. I will know more once the crank is reviewed to see if it is usable, but I suspect a complete new rotating assembly is on tap. :whistling:

I will be having the engine initially run and broken in at the shop on their equipment after the rebuild; of course I will be there to document that start up ::thumb::

No clearancing required up to 4.5" stroke especially on an early block that has the shorter cylinders.

 

[Pastel Blue]

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[barnett468]

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[barnett468]

You couldn't pay me to stroke that engine in that rare of a car.

What exactly do you mean by "the crank is shot"?

429 crank for sale

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Boss-429-Crankshaft-1969-1970-c9az-6303-c-/282139929356?hash=item41b0d9ab0c:gjUAAOSwddNXgWoQ&vxp=mtr

rods

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/esp-6605f3d/overview/make/ford

.

 

[Pastel Blue]

You couldn't pay me to stroke that engine in that rare of a car.

What exactly do you mean by "the crank is shot"?

429 crank for sale

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Boss-429-Crankshaft-1969-1970-c9az-6303-c-/282139929356?hash=item41b0d9ab0c:gjUAAOSwddNXgWoQ&vxp=mtr

rods

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/esp-6605f3d/overview/make/ford

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[/quote

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[Pastel Blue]

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