Adjusting Rockers

[NOT A T5]

Hi Guys, I have not adjusted the rockers on my 302 Windsor just yet. My C4 is bolted to the engine but both engine and transmission are still out of the car. Now how do you adjust the rockers in this case? Or should I wait until the drive train is in the car and then do the adjustment? I am also planning to replace my push rods since these were left overs from the same engine (but from the first rebuilt) and I do have a set of NOS push rods. Intake manifold has to come off anyways since I didn't use sealer around water jackets. Thanks a bunch!

 

[Hemikiller]

Do you have stock heads, or some sort of modified or aftermarket? Stock heads had a bottleneck type stud that you simply torqued down and that was that. Aftermarket cams may have a different base circle and would require an adjustable valvetrain. Simplest way to adjust rockers is to turn the engine to #1 cylinder at TDC on compression stroke, adjust both rockers to mfr's spec, rotate engine 90*, adjust next cylinder, etc following through the firing order the cam was ground to.

 

[Don C]

Hemi is correct, stock heads, stock cam, stock valves, and stock length pushrods, just torque the rockers down to specs. The clearances and contact pattern between the rocker tip and valve stem should be checked.

An aftermarket camshaft may require adjustable rockers or changing the pushrod length.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

I would have to go to my Ford shop manual but I thought you could adjust all the valves and only turn the engine to three different positions? Have not done since the 70's so a little fuzzy on memory.

David

 

[Don C]

Yes, you are correct, top dead center, 90° after top dead center, and bottom dead center.

Attached is the procedure.

351C valve adjust.pdf

 

[NOT A T5]

Yes, everything is stock except for hardened valve seats and .030" over. Should I adjust while engine is out or is it better to install and then adjust? Thanks for all replies!

 

[Don C]

It easier to do with it out. With hydraulic lifters it doesn't matter. With solid lifters it has to be done on an engine run stand or in the car because they have to be adjusted with the engine hot (at normal operating temperature).

 

[Hemikiller]

Yes, everything is stock except for hardened valve seats and .030" over. Should I adjust while engine is out or is it better to install and then adjust? Thanks for all replies!

If it's all stock, then follow the procedure in the shop manual, which is essentially "torque rocker nut to X ft/lbs".It's a lot easier to do it while the engine is out.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

My friend that does restorations has an engine stand with radiator, gauges and everything needed to run engine before going into the car. That way you do not have a pristine engine bay and have some issue with the engine or transmission and have to pull it out again.

I see some of the TV builds with the fancy shops put the engine in and start it and have all kinds of issues.

He uses it to break in the cams also instead of being in the car and having to work around the body.

Maybe ask around someone in your area might have a run in stand.

David

 

[Fabrice]

My friend that does restorations has an engine stand with radiator, gauges and everything needed to run engine before going into the car. That way you do not have a pristine engine bay and have some issue with the engine or transmission and have to pull it out again.

I see some of the TV builds with the fancy shops put the engine in and start it and have all kinds of issues.

He uses it to break in the cams also instead of being in the car and having to work around the body.

Maybe ask around someone in your area might have a run in stand.

David

@David, a run in stand is out of the question for me. You mention your friend break in cams this way. Could you extend a bit? How long does that take? My 429 got a cam lobe failure, and I'd love very much to not repeat that.

Also, I received last week my new cam, and first surprise was that I got the cam: period. No cam lube with it. In the past, bought at least 3 cams from Summit and always got that sticky greasy substance for the first install/turns. Any recommendations on what I should use/order aside break-in oil?

Are these packs of lubes obsolete now days because surfaces are made stronger by some treatment or is it simply because of economics?

 

[c9zx]

Summit didn't want to pay an extra few dollars for the assembly grease. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/jgr-00732 One tube should be enough for one cam and lifters. You did get new lifters, didn't you. Proper oil for flat tappet cams must be used after break-in as well. Chuck

 

[Fabrice]

Summit didn't want to pay an extra few dollars for the assembly grease. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/jgr-00732 One tube should be enough for one cam and lifters. You did get new lifters, didn't you. Proper oil for flat tappet cams must be used after break-in as well. Chuck

Economics... why am I not surprised? 

Looks like its exactly what I need. I bet you can even do more than just cam and lifters.

Yes got a new set of lifters, for any new cam its kind of a team, especially after this kind of failure, really don't want go there again.

Regarding oil for after break-in period, I'm still looking over here. (Summit won't send any oil overseas as they don't have a licence for it)

Found 3 US break-in oils brands, very rich in ZDDP, and also some for routine maintenance. I'll post the brands/types so you guys could warn me if one would be bad idea. At least, I know I will have the right oil for sure for the first start this time and a nice thick layer of lube! Thanks for this link!

 

[Fabrice]

Not familiar with the 429 engine that I have to put back together (and got in pieces) , been reading here and there about how to adjust the rockers.

I'm bit confused about the correct method to adjust, what I read on forums seams pretty mixed with hydraulics and mech cams.

heads and valves train is original specs. No roller rockers.

I'll do this only when about to put it back into the car as I don't want to set springs under load before that day,

but would like to be prep before and make sure pushrods are of the right length in case I need order new ones, which can take several weeks before they arrive.

Am I correct to assume the correct way to proceed for hydraulics is to first start at cyl1 TDC, following 429 firing order, 1 5 4 2 6 3 7 8, set the each next cyl to TDC by turning crankshaft 90 deg. Per cyl, turn nuts per rocker "by hand" till there is no play, then set torque to 20 lb-ft which should occur within max a turn if my pushrods are of correct length.

Some say, and it sounds logic to me, that only the intake should be adjusted and the exhaust that should be adjusted while on a given cyl at tdc at the opposite cyl. So being on 1, the "opposite" is an offset of 4 cyls in the firing order. If at cyl 1 tdc, adjust its intake and adjust exhaust of cyl 6. Turn 90 degs, to next at cyl 5, adjust intake, and do exhaust at cyl 3 etc..

Is this correct?

 

[Bill73Ragtop]

This is a pretty decent article: http://www.dragzine.com/tech-stories/how-to-set-and-adjust-valve-lash-like-a-pro/

Summary: For Hydraulic Lifter Camshafts

"When the exhaust valve just begins to open on the first cylinder in the firing order, adjust the intake valve by loosening the adjusting nut slightly while spinning the pushrod until you feel lash in the rocker arm. Tighten the adjusting nut until the slack is taken out of the rocker arm and pushrod. Lightly turn the pushrod with your fingers as you tighten the adjusting nut, and you should feel a point where there is a little resistance (this is called Zero Lash). Turn the adjusting nut ½-turn past this point, giving you optimal pre-load for the rocker arm, pushrod and lifter. According to Newman, “you should look for .030-.060 of preload in a typical hydraulic Lifter.” Follow this procedure by carefully adjusting each intake valve according to cylinder firing order.

When all of the intake valves have been set to the proper valve lash, you can adjust the exhaust valves. Utilizing the same procedure as with the intake valves, you need to turn the engine over until the intake pushrod moves all the way up and rotates just past maximum lift. Now the exhaust valve can be adjusted. When all of the intake and exhaust valves have been set with the proper lash, it is common for all the top engine builders to perform a double check by rotating the engine and checking each valve again, starting from the first cylinder in the firing order."

I had to reset all my rockers on my 69 vert (custom build 302) and once you get started it becomes pretty straight forward. I found (and other write ups on the procedure agree) that you don't need to do all of one side - i.e. intake before doing the exhaust valves all together.

 

[Fabrice]

Pretty decent indeed, and clarifies first the "extra turn" once zero lash is reached. Rocker has no play, and spinning pushrod tells you its now sandwiched. So at this point it is not about getting the nut to a given torque but adding an extra distance with this extra 1/2 turn, the "pre-load", that is in 0.7 to 1.5 mm range (to use the metric system that I understand).

It also underline I really need that assembly lube.

Copied and saved this reply, thank you very much @Bill73Ragtop, very helpful!

 

[Hemikiller]

Only thing I recommend in the way of cam lube is buy the same brand as the manufacturer of the cam. If you have a problem, they can't blame the lube.

 

[Don C]

Not familiar with the 429 engine that I have to put back together (and got in pieces) , been reading here and there about how to adjust the rockers.

I'm bit confused about the correct method to adjust, what I read on forums seams pretty mixed with hydraulics and mech cams.

heads and valves train is original specs. No roller rockers.

I'll do this only when about to put it back into the car as I don't want to set springs under load before that day,

but would like to be prep before and make sure pushrods are of the right length in case I need order new ones, which can take several weeks before they arrive.

Am I correct to assume the correct way to proceed for hydraulics is to first start at cyl1 TDC, following 429 firing order, 1 5 4 2 6 3 7 8, set the each next cyl to TDC by turning crankshaft 90 deg. Per cyl, turn nuts per rocker "by hand" till there is no play, then set torque to 20 lb-ft which should occur within max a turn if my pushrods are of correct length.

Some say, and it sounds logic to me, that only the intake should be adjusted and the exhaust that should be adjusted while on a given cyl at tdc at the opposite cyl. So being on 1, the "opposite" is an offset of 4 cyls in the firing order. If at cyl 1 tdc, adjust its intake and adjust exhaust of cyl 6. Turn 90 degs, to next at cyl 5, adjust intake, and do exhaust at cyl 3 etc..

Is this correct?

What you will be doing is checking the valve clearances, not adjusting the valves. With a stock valve train the only adjustment is changing pushrod lengths. Doing it like you show will make you rotate the crank 90º 8 times you can do it with only 3 moves. See the attached.

429 valve adjust.pdf

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

The first 302 I built I got screwed up on this (I was a teenager) I was told dozens of times,"Just tighten them down til they stop, you'll be fine" Little did my advisors know that the replacement heads I bought did not have positive stop studs. I did as directed, turned the key, heard a muffled lurch of a seized up engine. Bent a couple of valves and had to have the heads rebuilt.

Understanding instructions is great, but understanding why helps keep you from doing bone head stuff like a teenager.

 

[Fabrice]

@Don C, thx for the paper. Will read it once I find back these reading glasses that I avoid to use

[Doing it like you show will make you rotate the crank 90º 8 times you can do it with only 3 moves]

I don't mind turning the engine more than required, its good for my biceps, I'm just starting learning how this engine is supposed to be assembled together all I want is do it the right way.

No matter what, the old monkey that I am will rotate it prolly 10 times more once done, just to make sure nobody tries to kiss someone else and that I have a nice air push at each plug hole.