What, if any, modifications need to be done to a non AC car to put in a factory AC unit. I thought I've read that one or both cowl vents are blocked off in an AC car? Also, what is a fair price for a factory unit assuming it is complete and in working condition? And lastly, is it better to go with a new unit considering I am not trying to keep the car in stock condition? Thanks for your help!
Air Conditioning
- Thread starter mcline71
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Just the driver's side air vent is eliminated on a/c cars, but can probably be left in for fresh air to the floor. The heater hoses are in a different location, will need holes for them and the a/c hoses in the firewall. You'll need the a/c control/switch and all of the vacuum lines and a vacuum canister, plus all the underhood equipment. I would also replace the heater core and evaporator on a used unit before installing it, just a matter of time before they need replacement.
72HCODE
"My World is Fire and Blood"
Like don said, your looking at modification to the cowl, just the passenger side cowl is used. Then your looking at modification to the firewall. The heater hoses and AC hoses require a different shaped hole and seal.
Your looking at a monster task if installing factory AC on a non-AC car.
You would be better off buying a aftermarket AC kit designed to be installed on a non-AC car.
The factory AC also requires a 2 row or 3 row radiator, there are various valves and vacuum lines and canisters that have to be installed, also the climate controls then the heater AC box with additional wiring and modification to the dash board and engine bay harness.
A complete working factory AC system may not exist. Usually they get pulled from a donor then sit on a shelf for years. You would need to buy a complete AC system which would cost hundreds of dollars then you could easily dump another 1000$ into the system restoring it and getting it ready for install in the car.
This is another reason to look at a classic air aftermarket system. In that situation your buying a complete new AC system again designed to be fitted to a non AC car.
There are various sensors and expansion valves on the factory system.
To give you an idea I bought my car which is a factory AC car where the AC system was complete but not working. It took me 6 years to get the pieces I needed and 1000$ of dollars to restore the system to full working order. It required me to replace everything. Everything factory original was deteriorated beyond use and hope.
Compressor, lines, the heater box, climate controls vacuum system, electrical, valves, cooling, everything was affected and deteriorated. My original heater AC box turned out to be utterly destroyed from a previous heater core swap. I had to find a donor box and then completely disassemble it and rebuild it from the ground up.
At the end I easily spend over 4000$ restoring the factory system, and there were numerous times where I thought I fix it only to again have to take major components out and start over, the original York compressor is also hard to get and finding a complete one that comes with the magnetic clutch assembly very hard. I had a unit on back order for over a year before somebody returned a core that was in good enough condition for rebuild.
Again it is difficult enough if you start with a AC car configuration as a 40+ year old non working system. Cheaper and faster is a retrofit AC kit.
Additionally you will need a AC service kit and vacuum pump. For an old system sticking with r12 is difficult because you will need to have the original evaporator and condensor boiled out and checked. Also a r12 compatable dryer Might be impossible to find. You would really need a factory oem NOS part, the reason is the replacement parts are all r134a rated only. I converted to 134a on my system because I had to buy the aftermarket parts or waste years sourcing factory parts, that are very rare.
So that is another decision and you will need appropriate mineral oil for the system you need to lube all the oring fittings and on a rebuilt compressor you may need to drain out the 10 ounces of oil depending on how the AC system is serviced with freon.
There are issues with the aftermarket evaporator core, the mounts are not the same as factory so getting in the factory AC heater box is a nightmare. I sourced an original evaporator from a donor, then discovered the unit was filled with dirt from sitting for 20 years. I had to clean it out over and over then dry it and chunks would come out for days.
Just so many details when your dealing with old original parts that have had no maintance. Best would be a wreck that still had working AC and was hit from the side or back end, Then you would almost just want to cut the front clip off the car as one unit and go from there.
Your looking at a monster task if installing factory AC on a non-AC car.
You would be better off buying a aftermarket AC kit designed to be installed on a non-AC car.
The factory AC also requires a 2 row or 3 row radiator, there are various valves and vacuum lines and canisters that have to be installed, also the climate controls then the heater AC box with additional wiring and modification to the dash board and engine bay harness.
A complete working factory AC system may not exist. Usually they get pulled from a donor then sit on a shelf for years. You would need to buy a complete AC system which would cost hundreds of dollars then you could easily dump another 1000$ into the system restoring it and getting it ready for install in the car.
This is another reason to look at a classic air aftermarket system. In that situation your buying a complete new AC system again designed to be fitted to a non AC car.
There are various sensors and expansion valves on the factory system.
To give you an idea I bought my car which is a factory AC car where the AC system was complete but not working. It took me 6 years to get the pieces I needed and 1000$ of dollars to restore the system to full working order. It required me to replace everything. Everything factory original was deteriorated beyond use and hope.
Compressor, lines, the heater box, climate controls vacuum system, electrical, valves, cooling, everything was affected and deteriorated. My original heater AC box turned out to be utterly destroyed from a previous heater core swap. I had to find a donor box and then completely disassemble it and rebuild it from the ground up.
At the end I easily spend over 4000$ restoring the factory system, and there were numerous times where I thought I fix it only to again have to take major components out and start over, the original York compressor is also hard to get and finding a complete one that comes with the magnetic clutch assembly very hard. I had a unit on back order for over a year before somebody returned a core that was in good enough condition for rebuild.
Again it is difficult enough if you start with a AC car configuration as a 40+ year old non working system. Cheaper and faster is a retrofit AC kit.
Additionally you will need a AC service kit and vacuum pump. For an old system sticking with r12 is difficult because you will need to have the original evaporator and condensor boiled out and checked. Also a r12 compatable dryer Might be impossible to find. You would really need a factory oem NOS part, the reason is the replacement parts are all r134a rated only. I converted to 134a on my system because I had to buy the aftermarket parts or waste years sourcing factory parts, that are very rare.
So that is another decision and you will need appropriate mineral oil for the system you need to lube all the oring fittings and on a rebuilt compressor you may need to drain out the 10 ounces of oil depending on how the AC system is serviced with freon.
There are issues with the aftermarket evaporator core, the mounts are not the same as factory so getting in the factory AC heater box is a nightmare. I sourced an original evaporator from a donor, then discovered the unit was filled with dirt from sitting for 20 years. I had to clean it out over and over then dry it and chunks would come out for days.
Just so many details when your dealing with old original parts that have had no maintance. Best would be a wreck that still had working AC and was hit from the side or back end, Then you would almost just want to cut the front clip off the car as one unit and go from there.
Aftermarket system it is. I'm still going to take a look at the factory system that's for sale, take some pictures, and report back, maybe someone here will see something they need. The guy that has the system said he has a bunch of 71-73 parts, also a Boss 302 and Shelby 500 that would be worth checking out. Thanks for all the information!
72HCODE
"My World is Fire and Blood"
it will be hard to inspect a complete system without seeing a functional one.
check over the heater/AC box the fiberglass is easy to crack, and or destroy. the flapper doors might be rusted up, so it is possible you may not be able to move all the flapper door around usually the 2 lowest doors in the system are totally rusted up because all the water collects down there.
the center ac vent ducts are usually broken because people ripped them out. the lower fan shroud also had a center clip that people would miss and they would snap the ear off when they pulled the unit.
the defroster vent usually disintegrates from the UV sun light as well as the AC vents to the dash sides. grab the plastic and squeeze it a little if you hear it cracking then walk away. the plastic is not UV stable so once that plastic goes it is done no saving it. i had to get parts from other donors to get a good set of vent plastic parts. my original parts i could grab a chunk off and turn to chalk in my hands.
that is how deteriorated things can get.
for the system to be complete, your looking at 2 boxes from under the dash, the main heater/ac and the fan unit. there are various foam seals with the system you need also, the fan seal and the cowl seal. then the octopus which is the vacuum manifold rubber lines with color coding. the vacuum motors. the evaporator core freeze sensor and dash harness. you will need a factory dash harness for A/C cars to make it factory obviously you car will need to be gutted dash has to come out for all the modifications. then the heater control valve system, you most likely can not use it because it will be rusted and the rubber falling apart but you need it for reference and replacement.
the A/C lines and factory fittings, the dryer, and condenser core. all this stuff is actually worthless except for the fittings, but you need these parts for reference when you replace them. you have to get new lines and stuff from classic air but you need to compare the new to the old to make sure the part is correct then transfer fittings off the old hoses to the new ones. the expansion valve you will need as well. then the vacuum canister from the passenger shock tower. usually this stuff is wasted as well, the reed valve inside the canister is usually blown, but you again need that stuff for reference. a complete system taken from the car with care and set aside will be very extensive, many little hardware pieces and unfortunately no matter how carefully it was taken then the car will need a ground up restoration to work more then a few days. the evaporator core will more then likely get reused and it will need to be boiled or cleaned out and then it should be pressure tested. its made of galvanized steel, but it can rust from the inside out and you get pin hole leaks rendering the entire system worthless once completed.
the boxes themselves are quite expensive on the market they make a reproduction housing now but all the internals are not made.
like i said the doors are usually rusted out as well then they need to be patch welded and painted then they get a foam cover to baffle the rattle from the system.
just restoring the flapper doors is a chore, had to soak one for for days in rust dissolve just to free it up and then it broke the fiberglass box as i was trying to fix it and i had to patch the box like 5 times.
this is from my dash system restoration
http://s1031.photobucket.com/user/72hcode/library/Heater%20Box%20AC?sort=2&page=1
it might be over band with for the month but if not you can see the photos
check over the heater/AC box the fiberglass is easy to crack, and or destroy. the flapper doors might be rusted up, so it is possible you may not be able to move all the flapper door around usually the 2 lowest doors in the system are totally rusted up because all the water collects down there.
the center ac vent ducts are usually broken because people ripped them out. the lower fan shroud also had a center clip that people would miss and they would snap the ear off when they pulled the unit.
the defroster vent usually disintegrates from the UV sun light as well as the AC vents to the dash sides. grab the plastic and squeeze it a little if you hear it cracking then walk away. the plastic is not UV stable so once that plastic goes it is done no saving it. i had to get parts from other donors to get a good set of vent plastic parts. my original parts i could grab a chunk off and turn to chalk in my hands.
that is how deteriorated things can get.
for the system to be complete, your looking at 2 boxes from under the dash, the main heater/ac and the fan unit. there are various foam seals with the system you need also, the fan seal and the cowl seal. then the octopus which is the vacuum manifold rubber lines with color coding. the vacuum motors. the evaporator core freeze sensor and dash harness. you will need a factory dash harness for A/C cars to make it factory obviously you car will need to be gutted dash has to come out for all the modifications. then the heater control valve system, you most likely can not use it because it will be rusted and the rubber falling apart but you need it for reference and replacement.
the A/C lines and factory fittings, the dryer, and condenser core. all this stuff is actually worthless except for the fittings, but you need these parts for reference when you replace them. you have to get new lines and stuff from classic air but you need to compare the new to the old to make sure the part is correct then transfer fittings off the old hoses to the new ones. the expansion valve you will need as well. then the vacuum canister from the passenger shock tower. usually this stuff is wasted as well, the reed valve inside the canister is usually blown, but you again need that stuff for reference. a complete system taken from the car with care and set aside will be very extensive, many little hardware pieces and unfortunately no matter how carefully it was taken then the car will need a ground up restoration to work more then a few days. the evaporator core will more then likely get reused and it will need to be boiled or cleaned out and then it should be pressure tested. its made of galvanized steel, but it can rust from the inside out and you get pin hole leaks rendering the entire system worthless once completed.
the boxes themselves are quite expensive on the market they make a reproduction housing now but all the internals are not made.
like i said the doors are usually rusted out as well then they need to be patch welded and painted then they get a foam cover to baffle the rattle from the system.
just restoring the flapper doors is a chore, had to soak one for for days in rust dissolve just to free it up and then it broke the fiberglass box as i was trying to fix it and i had to patch the box like 5 times.
this is from my dash system restoration
http://s1031.photobucket.com/user/72hcode/library/Heater%20Box%20AC?sort=2&page=1
it might be over band with for the month but if not you can see the photos
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