Another cowl question

[1973grandeklar]

I have searched this site and I think I understand, but let me ask to be clear.

The reproduction cowl for the 71-73 is for a non A/C car?

If I have an A/C car I have to buy a $440 reproduction cowl and then modify it for the A/C car?

http://www.ohiomustang.com/store/order_page.asp?itemid=3228

The modification is plugging the extra hole on the drivers side?

The reproduction cowl has to split apart to weld a patch over this hole?

Seems like a lot of money and time, but one has to do what one has to do to fix a rusty cowl.

One final question, does the reproduction cowl come with the top hat (stove pipe) included on the passenger side?

Actually, anyone got pictures of this reproduction, other than the standard photos I can find at Ohio Mustang Supply? Like maybe pictures of the inside and underside of the reproduction cowl.

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

I don't know. I haven't done it and my experience in tangential at best. http://i49.tinypic.com/14e7u3a.jpg

I installed air in my non air car. The underside of the cowl on the driver's side was easy to seal off. I made an aluminum plate to match the top of the vent I had removed, matched the mounting holes, applied a thick bead of Gutter sealer I had laying around and ran the screws back into the cowl. I've never had a drop of water pass through this modification.

I would think that if you wished to do this with steel and welding, that it would be roughly the same and should not require splitting the halves, if they come assembled. Cut a filler plate and weld it in or overlap it slightly and weld it on. If you want the repair to be invisible, I suppose you would have to get to both sides to grind it smooth.

 

[72HCODE]

it might be better to section parts off the reproduction and then stitch your original back together, verse take the reproduction and try to make it work.

the backside of the A/C cowl also has some screw tabs for the a/c heat box. there are some other differences with cutbacks for clearance behind the dash.

way back when i had mine fixed reproduction was not available. i would of had to pay 1000-1500$ for a donor car and cut the sheet metal out. i was almost at that point, when the fabricator i hired to do the work said he could just make the sections i needed instead. so he hand fabricated the parts for about 500$.

since we pieced my cowl together in sections, i did not need to remove my windshield or dash to make the repairs, thus save more money in the process. if you buy the reproduction its assumed you will have a gutted car to install the new sheet metal on. it is alot of work to get a whole section installed verse a small sectional area.

you can see what i did...

http://s1031.photobucket.com/user/72hcode/library/cowl?sort=2&page=1

but having a reproduction piece as a donor is a good idea, even if you do not use it as a whole replacement.

think about all the stuff that needs to come out of the car to replace that entire panel.

 

[OMS]

It comes in two sections [ top and bottom]

There are no "set backs " to speak of

There are two brackets you need to save off the a/c cowl

One for hanging the blower motor housing and one for the end of the a/c box

The LH top hat can be covered with a plate and sealed.

Or it can be removed and a patch welded in.

The top hat on the RH side is there.

Search the site there are install pics from 2 or 3 guys on here.

 

[Mister 4x4]

I don't know. I haven't done it and my experience in tangential at best. http://i49.tinypic.com/14e7u3a.jpg

I installed air in my non air car. The underside of the cowl on the driver's side was easy to seal off. I made an aluminum plate to match the top of the vent I had removed, matched the mounting holes, applied a thick bead of Gutter sealer I had laying around and ran the screws back into the cowl. I've never had a drop of water pass through this modification.

I would think that if you wished to do this with steel and welding, that it would be roughly the same and should not require splitting the halves, if they come assembled. Cut a filler plate and weld it in or overlap it slightly and weld it on. If you want the repair to be invisible, I suppose you would have to get to both sides to grind it smooth.

I had just finished repairing my cowl damage (replaced both rusted out 'stove pipe' sections with pieces rom another car) only to discover that my Classic Auto Air kit said to block off the stove pipes and even provided a single patch with instructions to install in the very same manner as Jeff outlined above.

Having a non-A/C car myself, that left one of the stove pipes open (which made no sense to me at all), so I made another patch, and blocked off both stove pipes at the same time. Since the Classic Auto Air kit comes with all new ducting, I simply removed all of the original stuff and put it aside - so... no more cool cable-controlled fresh air vents. Boooooo

The other disappointing part of the whole repop cowl thing is the timing of their release. Had they released this repop cowl just two years ago, I would've simply ripped out all the bad stuff and replaced it with the new repop sheet metal. Oh well - that's pretty much the case with every new repop piece they release now.

But, it's all good.

 

[Grande73]

1973grandeklar,

Yes the repro is for non A/C cars. The only difference I found was you need to remove two a/c box brackets off your old cowl to reweld on the new one and remove the left drivers side cowl vent/hat by drilling out the spot welds and welding in a new round piece of sheetmetal. I posted a picture of the two A/C brackets on my old cowl in another cowl thread titled "Christmas present from Dynacorn-cowl replacement" by Spechti where you had asked about this before.

I have totally stripped my 73 Grande to the bare body shell which you pretty much have to do to get the old cowl out and new one in. Definitely the dashboard, windshield and heater/A/C Box will need to be removed to do this job. The new cowl comes in two pieces as the original was made so you are able to remove the left side cowl hat/cone easily and put the new metal over the hole. The cowl was a perfect match other than the A/C car verse non A/C car differences and fit perfectly unlike a lot of repro parts I have gotten. Well worth the money spent.

Michael

 

[1973grandeklar]

It comes in two sections [ top and bottom]

There are no "set backs " to speak of

There are two brackets you need to save off the a/c cowl

One for hanging the blower motor housing and one for the end of the a/c box

The LH top hat can be covered with a plate and sealed.

Or it can be removed and a patch welded in.

The top hat on the RH side is there.

Search the site there are install pics from 2 or 3 guys on here.

Thanks for the reply. I am just a little skeptical spending $440 bucks on a reproduction part only to cut it up. But as others have said, better than trying to fabricate all the peices. As for the tabs, I can find one, I think the other is rusted gone. I will look for the pictures you mentioned.

Any idea if they are going to offer an A/C version of this cowl so the extra work could be avoided?

 

[cudak888]

Thanks for the reply. I am just a little skeptical spending $440 bucks on a reproduction part only to cut it up.

Remember, that's the usual course of action for most repro parts to begin with

-Kurt

 

[OMS]

It comes in two sections [ top and bottom]

There are no "set backs " to speak of

There are two brackets you need to save off the a/c cowl

One for hanging the blower motor housing and one for the end of the a/c box

The LH top hat can be covered with a plate and sealed.

Or it can be removed and a patch welded in.

The top hat on the RH side is there.

Search the site there are install pics from 2 or 3 guys on here.

Thanks for the reply. I am just a little skeptical spending $440 bucks on a reproduction part only to cut it up. But as others have said, better than trying to fabricate all the peices. As for the tabs, I can find one, I think the other is rusted gone. I will look for the pictures you mentioned.

Any idea if they are going to offer an A/C version of this cowl so the extra work could be avoided?

Hey before this came out you had to try and find a good cowl - if you could find one they were 600.00 - 900.00 and just cut out so there was a bunch of prep work.

No word on another cowl.

 

[1973grandeklar]

Thanks OMS, I will be ordering the cowl in a month or two as my 1973 is mostly gone. I guess the $440 and a small amount of work is worth it knowing I do not have to scrounge around for a good used or fabricate a lot for my rusty one. Also good to know that it is a two piece design that I can do good prep and painting before putting the top on!

Seems Ford was really skimpy on the rust protection in this area. Especially knowing that water went into this cavity. Even worse, the collection of leaves and dirt that holds the water. I cleaned mine up and was flabbergasted to see the amount of rust concentrated in this area. The rest of the car looks fairly solid and very little rust, but then I get to this location and I am thinking the previous owner poured salt into the cowl. The passenger floor pan being rusty should of given a clue, but then I knew the heater core is toast as well, so either way.

Once this area is repaired and properly painted, what advice do others have to keep this area clean and looking nice? And not driving it in the rain is not an option. I like to drive my cars and an occasional downpour is not something I want to fear.

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

The advice I would give as to preventing rust would be to 1) Keep the drains clear 2) Use an etching primer followed by an epoxy primer on all cowl surfaces. 3) use a good quality paint and apply it in the recommended manner over the epoxy primer. Watch the time frames between coats. Your goal is a complete durable coating-you don't need a bunch of layers as there should be no wear to the surface. 4) use an air compressor and a long air gun tip to clear out debris every so often. Usage of the car will help you determine the best intervals.

 

[72HCODE]

take it further you can use a brush on thick rustolem or spray bomb with rubber undercoat, but thing is remember even with bad rust protection from the factory it went all this time deteriorating to this point. so daily driving for a couple of years and keeping it clean will make it go another 40 years.

what caused the problem was leaves, debre, dirt, building up and holding water and never really drying out, and not allowing drainage.

keep it clean and spray the hose into the cowl and get the dirt out the drains are quite big on 71-73. in general the cowls on the 71-73 are not considered a big rust magnet like on the early mustangs, but yes they still rust without any maintenance.

I can tell you here is what usually happens with 71-73 cars, the car get parked it sits for years outside maybe under a tree but usually a mouse or a squirrel discovers it is very easy to get into the cowl and it makes a really good shelter. the rodent packs the cowl with nest and discovers the hat and that it can crawl inside the climate control box, and if wanted chew the fresh air intake grate off and get into the car..

all that debris holds water when it rains and the hat is the first area that goes, the carpet soaks and the front floor goes next.

this is why when you crack open a 40 year old heater core the box is full of acorns.

the 2 plastic top grates are just suppose to keep leaves from falling into the cowl, but the large drains on the sides under the fenders and the hood let the rodents in. but you can clean them out from the top really well.

the deal with the older mustangs was the cowl was all welded together as one piece with the tiny vent slits for the water to get through, when something fell into the cowl it never came out and was impossible to clean they also left the cowl raw steel no paint inside at all. so the early mustangs rusted the cowls out fast, on 71-73 they did get some engine bay paint inside the cowl for some protection but it was thin.

hee hee

 

[1973grandeklar]

Thanks Jeff, I am pretty confident that I can remove, clean-up, weld on new, and repaint the cowl section. I have found a lot of good pictures of cowl repairs on this website and other sites.

It just bugs me that Ford did not try and do a little better job rustproofing this area. It was clearly designed to move water away from the passenger area and I am fairly sure Ford knew about the rust potential. But just like today, the design was only supposed to last to a certain point and then "it is not my problem" kicks in.

By the way, are the end peices reproduced? The metal part that welds to the cowl and the rear apron. I saw on several other threads that the restorer had to either fix the existing or bend up a custom peice. On my 1973 they appear to be in good shape, but on my son's 1972 they are a bit rusty. would be nice to know if I have to be very careful with the existing or just rip them off and get reproductions with the cowl. What are these peices called?

 

[72HCODE]

well they did redesign the area in 1968, they knew the early mustangs were rotting out before the end of product life.

in 68 they changed the cowl area and covered it with an extended hood back to the windshield. they opened up the small vents to allow a person to get their hand inside and manually clean it out.

understand a car was design to last about 4 years at that time. we get 15 years on average from a car today.

by the time 3-4 years was up on a car before 1980 that was pretty much it. it had maybe 50-80,000 miles on it and was rusting away.

I mean it kept the cars cheap also. just mild steel without extra corrosion protection kept the cost low, before all the safety mandates. etc..

now the end pieces cowl to aprons extensions are still not being reproduced last i looked, so you either need a donor or patching the ones you have.

should also note the repop engine bay aprons are not complete either they are missing re-enforcement backing pieces that are suppose to come off the original parts, but 100% of the time those parts are rust away on the originals so people don't know they are missing and you discover it years later when you see a unmolested concourse car at a show.

 

[1973grandeklar]

This part? What is it called?




cowl to apron extensions is what they are called?

 

[mjlan]

Cowl to apron extensions, there are a few names for them.

Not reproduced is the key...

 

[Mister 4x4]

Once this area is repaired and properly painted, what advice do others have to keep this area clean and looking nice? And not driving it in the rain is not an option. I like to drive my cars and an occasional downpour is not something I want to fear.

Fasten some home window screen to the underside of the cowl vent "mesh" covers. The biggest reason there are tons of leaves, sticks, dead insects/animals, etc., in the cowls of our cars is because those openings in the plastic mesh pieces are way too big - and the drain holes are too small for larger debris to flow out, and they're horizontally oriented (meaning they don't flow very quickly).

The water-proofing efforts Ford did do would've been adequate for the most part, had those openings been severely reduced in size. When I pulled my cowl apart to repair, I discovered the stove pipes were all but rusted away, with the exception of the rubber 'stove pipe-shaped' pieces that remained - it seems that the water-proofing lasted... but the metal it was supposed to protect, not so much.

Make sure to seam seal all joints. Ford used a pneumatic application gun on the assembly line for this purpose... I suggest following their cue and pack that stuff in a "more than you think you need" manner. Get a major bright light source in the footwells of the car immediate after welding the cowl pieces in and sealing to help check for potential leaks - if you see light you can seal it out, otherwise you'll be having water issues later.

+1 on Chuck's and Jeff's advice, BTW. My biggest recommendation is still the "window screen" material on the cowl vent "grates." Reduce the size of the openings, and you reduce the size of the debris that can get in and collect.

 

[Qcode351mach]

The advice I would give as to preventing rust would be to 1) Keep the drains clear 2) Use an etching primer followed by an epoxy primer on all cowl surfaces.

DO NOT USE SELF ETCHING PRIMER UNDER EPOXY OR ANYTHING CONTAINING ACID. The epoxy will FAIL

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

The advice I would give as to preventing rust would be to 1) Keep the drains clear 2) Use an etching primer followed by an epoxy primer on all cowl surfaces.

DO NOT USE SELF ETCHING PRIMER UNDER EPOXY OR ANYTHING CONTAINING ACID. The epoxy will FAIL

I defer to your expertise in this matter.

I amend my response to this post to exclude the recommendation of an etching primer.