Anyone used the McLeod Racing Muscle Car 5 trans?

[tony-muscle]

I am reading more and more about replacing the transmission. This is one of my projects planned for winter in a year. I am getting the itch.

My plan is to replace my C6 and go with a manual 5. I will be also stroking my 351-4V, but intend to keep it "mild" with the idea of keeping the power at lower RPMs for street use.

In any case I have been reading about modified T5s, TKO500/600, but I have not read a thread discussing the newer McLeod transmission. They have a "Ford" model said to be the same length as the Toploader. Any thoughts?

http://www.mcleodracing.com/index.php/driveline/muscle-car-5-transmission/mcleod-racing-muscle-car-5-speed-107822.html

Also, I have Hooker Comp 6915 headers. They exit very tightly to the C6, so I wonder if I have to worry about clearance issues when I swap the transmission. I don't want to replace the headers if I don't need to.

 

[Stanglover]

I am reading more and more about replacing the transmission. This is one of my projects planned for winter in a year. I am getting the itch.

My plan is to replace my C6 and go with a manual 5. I will be also stroking my 351-4V, but intend to keep it "mild" with the idea of keeping the power at lower RPMs for street use.

In any case I have been reading about modified T5s, TKO500/600, but I have not read a thread discussing the newer McLeod transmission. They have a "Ford" model said to be the same length as the Toploader. Any thoughts?

http://www.mcleodracing.com/index.php/driveline/muscle-car-5-transmission/mcleod-racing-muscle-car-5-speed-107822.html

Also, I have Hooker Comp 6915 headers. They exit very tightly to the C6, so I wonder if I have to worry about clearance issues when I swap the transmission. I don't want to replace the headers if I don't need to.

Tony, that McLeod looks very nice, more like a European gearbox without those stupid external shift rods. Coming from England, I personally had never seen a box with external rods, not to say they were not around on some cars.

I may look into that for my own car if the price is right!!

 

[MeZapU]

Externally it appears to look like a T-5 in a new wrapper. The top shift rail is exposed and not hidden within the tail shaft like a T-5. The top cover likely is the same in function as a T-5. It probably has an upgraded gearset like the Astro or G-Force T-5's as the torque handling capacity and gear ratios are almost identical. It even has the R-5 lever pin and backup light switch in similar location to the T-5.

 

[Otto]

I thought of that option myself but what stopped me from considering it as a serious option was the fact that it had not been released and had no release date from the factory. Now that it is out, I looked at the specs, I am glad I went with my TKO 600. If you already had a manual car, I would suggest to go for it due to the fact you have a bellhousing, clutch linkage, pedal assembly and driveshaft that should THEORETICALLY fit. I emphasize the key word because we have all bought parts designed for our cars or mods only to find out they will not work.

Since you are starting off with an automatic, you will need to track these parts to work with a transmission's who's main draw is being a straight swap, defeating the purpose of this option to begin with. Also, the price of the McLeod is about 500 dollars more that a TKO for the transmission itself. For that price you can pay for some of the installation kit. Instead I would recommend a TKO 500 or 600 along with an installation kit. I personally did this (TKO 600) on my '72 Mach 1 (351C/4 speed toploader) earlier this year. I chose to go through Modern Driveline and was fortunate enough to deal with Bruce who listened to what I wanted to do and used that as a starting point.

From my recent experience, I think these are the important things to consider. The cost will be relatively close with either option. Will you spend time hunting the other parts needed for the conversion or spend the money to get them in a kit, which are also brand new parts? Tremec's have been around for a while and have been tested on both the street and the track. In my experience, I did not need any cutting to fit the TKO in my car. Not only that, Modern Driveline now makes a low profile TKO with the casing strategically machined, which fits even better. Of course that was released after I bought mine, because that is my luck.

Hopefully I have added some clarity to your decision. I mention Modern Driveline because that is who I went through and I was extremely pleased with Bruce's help. The other option is American Powertrain, who also offers a hydraulic clutch setup for our Mustangs. After the fairly straight installation and adjusting of the pinion angle of the rear end, I can cruise at 85 mph at around 2300 rpm and it's smooth as silk. I tend to be lengthy with my typing so I'll stop here but feel free to ask any questions or have me give more detail about my conversion.

 

[tony-muscle]

I thought of that option myself but what stopped me from considering it as a serious option was the fact that it had not been released and had no release date from the factory. Now that it is out, I looked at the specs, I am glad I went with my TKO 600. If you already had a manual car, I would suggest to go for it due to the fact you have a bellhousing, clutch linkage, pedal assembly and driveshaft that should THEORETICALLY fit. I emphasize the key word because we have all bought parts designed for our cars or mods only to find out they will not work.

Since you are starting off with an automatic, you will need to track these parts to work with a transmission's who's main draw is being a straight swap, defeating the purpose of this option to begin with. Also, the price of the McLeod is about 500 dollars more that a TKO for the transmission itself. For that price you can pay for some of the installation kit. Instead I would recommend a TKO 500 or 600 along with an installation kit. I personally did this (TKO 600) on my '72 Mach 1 (351C/4 speed toploader) earlier this year. I chose to go through Modern Driveline and was fortunate enough to deal with Bruce who listened to what I wanted to do and used that as a starting point.

From my recent experience, I think these are the important things to consider. The cost will be relatively close with either option. Will you spend time hunting the other parts needed for the conversion or spend the money to get them in a kit, which are also brand new parts? Tremec's have been around for a while and have been tested on both the street and the track. In my experience, I did not need any cutting to fit the TKO in my car. Not only that, Modern Driveline now makes a low profile TKO with the casing strategically machined, which fits even better. Of course that was released after I bought mine, because that is my luck.

Hopefully I have added some clarity to your decision. I mention Modern Driveline because that is who I went through and I was extremely pleased with Bruce's help. The other option is American Powertrain, who also offers a hydraulic clutch setup for our Mustangs. After the fairly straight installation and adjusting of the pinion angle of the rear end, I can cruise at 85 mph at around 2300 rpm and it's smooth as silk. I tend to be lengthy with my typing so I'll stop here but feel free to ask any questions or have me give more detail about my conversion.

I think you are right. I can save some money going the TKO600 route. However, I wonder if my headers will clear the TKO600?

From what I found, it seems that the TKO600 is 24" from the bellhousing to the output, while the C6 is 33.5". This means I will need a shaft about 10" longer. Does this mean I need to change the pinion angle as well? If so, what does that entail?

 

[Otto]

From what I could find, the C6 transmission itself is 22.365 in. That is minus the bellhousing length. The TKO is just over 24 in, like you indicated. I would plan to buy a driveshaft to account for the possible cost. If things work out to where you don't need one, then it's money saved. In the end though, these specs are just theory. Until you have whatever bellhousing you choose along with the transmission installed, you wont know the exact number. What kind of clutch are you planning to use?

Drive angle is the relationship between the vertical downward angle of the transmission with the vertical upward angle of the differential pinion. The ideal setting is to have the same numerical spec with opposite value (-2, +2) so they cancel out when operating. Bruce set me up with a kit that should've given me a THEORETICAL 4 degrees of trans drive angle. After installation, it was 5. This can be expected because of anything from ride height front and rear, to the age and wear on the vehicle and components themselves, like engine and transmission mounts. I couldn't lessen it because I didn't have more clearance between the trans and tunnel. My transmission drive angle before the conversion was 2 as well as my pinion angle.

I bought 2 degree shims (basically a metal wedge) from Summit to install between the leaf spring and differential housing and after installing them I got 4.5 degrees. Again, THEORETICALLY I should've gotten 4 at the rear, but the 4.5 worked in my favor as it was closer to the 5. The accepted tolerance is usually 1 degree difference. So far I have no issues whatsoever with the drivetrain. With the low profile TKO that Modern Driveline sells now, you might be able to get 2 degrees and not need shimming.

If you need more info, don't hesitate to ask.

 

[barnett468]

if you get a 600 and want to speed shift it, you should get the carbon fiber lined blocker rings and shift rod mod.

 

[tony-muscle]

Where is a good source of "tricked" TKO600s?

1971 M-code Mach 1

 

[MeZapU]

Hanlon Motorsports can do almost anything with the Tremecs to include faceplating if you so desire. Their website is not that great but if you call, they are very friendly.

 

[Otto]

I read tko 600's sometimes have an issue with high rpm shifts so I got the carbon lining as well. Modem Driveline installed them prior to shipping but I haven't checked it because my trans and rear end are still breaking in. The way I liked at it is that it's extra insurance for durability. It wasn't much to have it done.

 

[tony-muscle]

Yeah, thats what i read as well. The faceplating i dont think is geared towars street. The carbon fiber and shifter mods are common, but I have also read that still is not a good shift at high RPMs.

I would like to hear from other members that face this issue how often it occurs, with and without the shift mods.

1971 M-code Mach 1

 

[tony-muscle]

Can someone tell me if the TKO600 would interfere with my Hooker headers? They are currently very close to the C6.

1971 M-code Mach 1

 

[4mm]

Mine didn't (TKO 600+ 351C) with Hooker Super Comps but that was like 6-7 years ago. I don't know if any specs have changed since then.

 

[mjlan]

DISCLAIMER- I don't have a C6 to compare to a TKO, but I would bet that the manual trans is a good bit narrower than the automatic....

 

[barnett468]

The faceplating i dont think is geared towars street.

That is correct, and if you do not race, you absolutely do not want a faceplated 600.

 

[MeZapU]

The correct way of thinking about Tremec transmissions (500/600's) is that that are "heavy duty" transmissions and not necessarily "high performance" transmissions. They are essentially a toploader with a 5th gear in a fancy case. They use the exact same brass blocker (synchronizer) rings as a toploader and the gear sizes are nearly identical as well. I personally have had very good luck with them. You just can not be abusive to them(speed shift), and must allow for proper break in or you will be disappointed. People who grenade their T-5's, install a Tremec, then go straight to the track are the first ones to complain about ill shifting. I have never driven a Tremec (3550/500/600) with the carbon fiber blocker rings, but I'm guessing they may seem to work better because they do not need the 500 mile break in miles like the solid brass ones do and are more forgiving in that regard. These are perfectly adequate transmissions for those who are genuinely not abusive to their cars, want a 5-th gear, and only desire something strong enough for occasional spirited driving.

If you truly desire something high performance, then you should look towards a T-56 or something more modern.

Most all header clearance issues are due to clutch linkage type and bellhousing style (mainly scattershields). Ground clearance is another concern for some headers. The width of the transmission itself is not a concern because a manual Tremec is thinner than even a toploader due to it not having the external shift linkages to contend with. There are many variables in your cars combination of parts that you need to get nailed down before you decide on a which header you will require. I was not happy with any of the current offerings and I purchased some Stainless OBX headers and modified the drivers side one to work with my z-bar linkage.

 

[tony-muscle]

The correct way of thinking about Tremec transmissions (500/600's) is that that are "heavy duty" transmissions and not necessarily "high performance" transmissions. They are essentially a toploader with a 5th gear in a fancy case. They use the exact same brass blocker (synchronizer) rings as a toploader and the gear sizes are nearly identical as well. I personally have had very good luck with them. You just can not be abusive to them(speed shift), and must allow for proper break in or you will be disappointed. People who grenade their T-5's, install a Tremec, then go straight to the track are the first ones to complain about ill shifting. I have never driven a Tremec (3550/500/600) with the carbon fiber blocker rings, but I'm guessing they may seem to work better because they do not need the 500 mile break in miles like the solid brass ones do and are more forgiving in that regard. These are perfectly adequate transmissions for those who are genuinely not abusive to their cars, want a 5-th gear, and only desire something strong enough for occasional spirited driving.

If you truly desire something high performance, then you should look towards a T-56 or something more modern.

Most all header clearance issues are due to clutch linkage type and bellhousing style (mainly scattershields). Ground clearance is another concern for some headers. The width of the transmission itself is not a concern because a manual Tremec is thinner than even a toploader due to it not having the external shift linkages to contend with. There are many variables in your cars combination of parts that you need to get nailed down before you decide on a which header you will require. I was not happy with any of the current offerings and I purchased some Stainless OBX headers and modified the drivers side one to work with my z-bar linkage.

Thanks for your comments Mike. I have been trying to understand when the transmission really have issues shifting. Is one of those things that you start reading in the internet about and gets into your head because everyone mentions it. But in reality, the origin of the problem is lost in internet talk. The questions then is, are the shifting issues only happening when speed shifting? For instance, if I shift "fast", but releasing the gas pedal in the process, does it work well?

 

[barnett468]

the 600's shift decent if you let off the gas when shifting and dont try to speed shift the shifter . they are a truck transmission design and the inertia of their heavy gears is difficult to slow down . this is why shops install carbon fiber lined blocker rings or modify the synchros like liberty trans dors to slow the gears more quickly when shifting.

 

[tony-muscle]

the 600's shift decent if you let off the gas when shifting and dont try to speed shift the shifter . they are a truck transmission design and the inertia of their heavy gears is difficult to slow down . this is why shops install carbon fiber lined blocker rings or modify the synchros like liberty trans dors to slow the gears more quickly when shifting.

Thanks for the explanation. I was trying to figure out why the CF syncs would help, but that makes perfect sense. The carbon fiber syncs are lighter; therefore less mass, less inertia and faster slow down; therefore a little faster synchronization.