Camshaft by Chuck & Mike

[jpaz]

Ya for sure, needs to be lower. I will definitely be wanting to run on 91 pump gas, so will be making sure to be well within limits. I was just kinda guessing on the 10:1, their probably more like 9.7:1. Either way it’s going to be set up for pump gas.

 

[jpaz]

So I talked to the guy doing my car about my engine build today. He said that the machine shop is very busy right now, of course, so it will be a couple weeks before they get to my engine. I will have to wait to get measurements before I can finalize the exact cam specs. Pretty sure I’m just going to stick with a flat tappet cam, but with a custom grind to match engine components.

It sounds like the deep scratches that are in a couple of cylinder bores may be to deep to hone out. So it might have to be bored, but will have to wait till machine shop can get to it to see. Plus he said that a couple of the rod bearings didn’t look good. Sure sounds like it was a good idea to have this engine gone thru and rebuilt.

 

[barnett468]

I will have to wait to get measurements before I can finalize the exact cam specs.

Pretty sure I’m just going to stick with a flat tappet cam, but with a custom grind to match engine components.

Plus he said that a couple of the rod bearings didn’t look good. Sure sounds like it was a good idea to have this engine gone thru and rebuilt.

What measurements are you referring to?

You will need to have your heads flowed then if you want to get the optimum performance from it so you can give that info to the cam guy. I use Chris Straub.

Are you going to do any oil system mods?

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[jpaz]

I will have to wait to get measurements before I can finalize the exact cam specs.

Pretty sure I’m just going to stick with a flat tappet cam, but with a custom grind to match engine components.

Plus he said that a couple of the rod bearings didn’t look good. Sure sounds like it was a good idea to have this engine gone thru and rebuilt.

What measurements are you referring to? I would think head chamber volumes need to be checked? But I guess everything can be adjusted with different gasket thickness.

You will need to have your heads flowed then if you want to get the optimum performance from it so you can give that info to the cam guy. I use Chris Straub. Ok

Are you going to do any oil system mods? Yes, since motor is completely disassembled I was going to have cam bearing restrictors and lifter bushings installed. Fully grooved mains, not sure if the connecting rod bearings need to be.

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[EvilPuppetMaster]

I will have to wait to get measurements before I can finalize the exact cam specs.

Pretty sure I’m just going to stick with a flat tappet cam, but with a custom grind to match engine components.

Plus he said that a couple of the rod bearings didn’t look good. Sure sounds like it was a good idea to have this engine gone thru and rebuilt.

What measurements are you referring to? I would think head chamber volumes need to be checked? But I guess everything can be adjusted with different gasket thickness.

You will need to have your heads flowed then if you want to get the optimum performance from it so you can give that info to the cam guy. I use Chris Straub. Ok

Are you going to do any oil system mods? Yes, since motor is completely disassembled I was going to have cam bearing restrictors and lifter bushings installed. Fully grooved mains, not sure if the connecting rod bearings need to be.

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I am in the process of building my 408 Cleveland. My engine builder said that restrictors are not necessary unless you will be turning over 6000 rpm on a regular basis. 

He said the best thing to do is to go with high flow oil pump for car that will stay below 6k

I also bought crower cam saver lifters. They got really good reviews  and hopefully they will assist in better cam lubrication.

Alex

 

[jpaz]

What measurements are you referring to? I would think head chamber volumes need to be checked? But I guess everything can be adjusted with different gasket thickness.

You will need to have your heads flowed then if you want to get the optimum performance from it so you can give that info to the cam guy. I use Chris Straub. Ok

Are you going to do any oil system mods? Yes, since motor is completely disassembled I was going to have cam bearing restrictors and lifter bushings installed. Fully grooved mains, not sure if the connecting rod bearings need to be.

.

I am in the process of building my 408 Cleveland. My engine builder said that restrictors are not necessary unless you will be turning over 6000 rpm on a regular basis. 

He said the best thing to do is to go with high flow oil pump for car that will stay below 6k

I also bought crower cam saver lifters. They got really good reviews  and hopefully they will assist in better cam lubrication.

Alex

Definitely not turning that my rpms regularly but I my engine builder said he found some badly worn bearings, so it may be from the oiling problem. Not sure but it’s pretty cheap insurance to have it done.

I’ll have to check out those lifters, haven’t heard of those. 

Thanks for all the info, I appreciate it!

 

[73pony]

Everyone I have ever talked to said to absolutely not use a high volume oil pump on a Cleveland. Just an FYI. This includes several members on this site as well as two well know local engine builders that specialize in Fords and especially Clevelands

 

[barnett468]

I am in the process of building my 408 Cleveland. My engine builder said that restrictors are not necessary unless you will be turning over 6000 rpm on a regular basis. 

Well he is incorrect about cam bearing restrictors. Clevelands had crank bearing issues when they were new and the cam bearing restrictors or the threaded inserts will definitely greatly reduce the potential of a premature crank bearing failure, plus they are dirt cheap and can't possibly hurt anything , therefore, I see no logic in not installing one type or the other.

The lifter bushings are overkill for a low revving engine though.

.

 

[barnett468]

I will have to wait to get measurements before I can finalize the exact cam specs.

Pretty sure I’m just going to stick with a flat tappet cam, but with a custom grind to match engine components.

Plus he said that a couple of the rod bearings didn’t look good. Sure sounds like it was a good idea to have this engine gone thru and rebuilt.

What measurements are you referring to? I would think head chamber volumes need to be checked? But I guess everything can be adjusted with different gasket thickness.

You will need to have your heads flowed then if you want to get the optimum performance from it so you can give that info to the cam guy. I use Chris Straub. Ok

Are you going to do any oil system mods? Yes, since motor is completely disassembled I was going to have cam bearing restrictors and lifter bushings installed. Fully grooved mains, not sure if the connecting rod bearings need to be.

.

The combustion chamber volume has nothing to do with cam selection.

The lifter bushings are overkill but they are very nice, and when done properly, they also put all the lifter bores in the correct location in case any ore slightly off, but this requires a jig or a mill. The other oil mod is oil restrictor lifters or push rods.

Also, compression is NEVER adjusted by using different thickness head gaskets.

.

.

 

[tony-muscle]

Everyone I have ever talked to said to absolutely not use a high volume oil pump on a Cleveland. Just an FYI. This includes several members on this site as well as two well know local engine builders that specialize in Fords and especially Clevelands

+1 not to a high volume pump. Among other issues you risk breaking distributor shafts.

In regards to oiling mods, TMeyer sells restricted lifters and grooved cam bearings.

 

[jpaz]

What measurements are you referring to? I would think head chamber volumes need to be checked? But I guess everything can be adjusted with different gasket thickness.

You will need to have your heads flowed then if you want to get the optimum performance from it so you can give that info to the cam guy. I use Chris Straub. Ok

Are you going to do any oil system mods? Yes, since motor is completely disassembled I was going to have cam bearing restrictors and lifter bushings installed. Fully grooved mains, not sure if the connecting rod bearings need to be.

.

The combustion chamber volume has nothing to do with cam selection.

The lifter bushings are overkill but they are very nice, and when done properly, they also put all the lifter bores in the correct location in case any ore slightly off, but this requires a jig or a mill. The other oil mod is oil restrictor lifters or push rods.

Also, compression is NEVER adjusted by using different thickness head gaskets.

.

.

Ok, thanks

 

[jpaz]

Everyone I have ever talked to said to absolutely not use a high volume oil pump on a Cleveland. Just an FYI. This includes several members on this site as well as two well know local engine builders that specialize in Fords and especially Clevelands

+1 not to a high volume pump. Among other issues you risk breaking distributor shafts.

In regards to oiling mods, TMeyer sells restricted lifters and grooved cam bearings.

Ya no high volume pump for me either 

I forgot about the Tim Meyer cam bearings, will have check out those lifters too, didn’t know about those. Thanks!

 

[barnett468]

The combustion chamber volume has nothing to do with cam selection.

The lifter bushings are overkill but they are very nice, and when done properly, they also put all the lifter bores in the correct location in case any ore slightly off, but this requires a jig or a mill. The other oil mod is oil restrictor lifters or push rods.

Also, compression is NEVER adjusted by using different thickness head gaskets.

.

.

Ok, thanks

someone also mentioned fully grooved crank bearings. i would not use those.

.

 

[jpaz]

The combustion chamber volume has nothing to do with cam selection.

The lifter bushings are overkill but they are very nice, and when done properly, they also put all the lifter bores in the correct location in case any ore slightly off, but this requires a jig or a mill. The other oil mod is oil restrictor lifters or push rods.

Also, compression is NEVER adjusted by using different thickness head gaskets.

.

.

Ok, thanks

someone also mentioned fully grooved crank bearings. i would not use those.

.

I got that from George Pence. He says that the boss 351 had them and they double the amount of oil that gets to the connecting rods.

 

[barnett468]

Ok, thanks

someone also mentioned fully grooved crank bearings. i would not use those.

.

I got that from George Pence. He says that the boss 351 had them and they double the amount of oil that gets to the connecting rods.

It doesn't matter where the info came from. You still need  a good oil wedge to form and a full width bearing on the thrust side on a street engine. Fully grooved bearings interfere with the oil wedge formation plus the amount of bearing surface is reduced by around 20%. Not a great idea for a street engine. Nascar engines used fully grooved bearings for a while and they rebuilt them after every race. You will not be running at 7000 rpm for 300 miles at a time. You need to build an engine for a particular app, and your app should not use fully grooved bearings.

.

 

[barnett468]

someone also mentioned fully grooved crank bearings. i would not use those.

.

I got that from George Pence. He says that the boss 351 had them and they double the amount of oil that gets to the connecting rods.

It doesn't matter where the info came from. You still need  a good oil wedge to form and a full width bearing on the thrust side on a street engine. Fully grooved bearings interfere with the oil wedge formation plus the amount of bearing surface is reduced by around 20%. Not a great idea for a street engine. Nascar engines used fully grooved bearings for a while and they rebuilt them after every race. You will not be running at 7000 rpm for 300 miles at a time. You need to build an engine for a particular app, and your app should not use fully grooved bearings.

It also sounds like George Pence said 114 can lsa was ideal for a mildly built cleveland engine, then later changed his mind and and said that less lsa was better.

..

 

[barnett468]

I got that from George Pence. He says that the boss 351 had them and they double the amount of oil that gets to the connecting rods.

It doesn't matter where the info came from. You still need  a good oil wedge to form and a full width bearing on the thrust side on a street engine. Fully grooved bearings interfere with the oil wedge formation plus the amount of bearing surface is reduced by around 20%. Not a great idea for a street engine. Nascar engines used fully grooved bearings for a while and they rebuilt them after every race. You will not be running at 7000 rpm for 300 miles at a time. You need to build an engine for a particular app, and your app should not use fully grooved bearings.

A half grooved bearing will increase the time the rods get oiled by a significant amount. I think that is more than enough, especially considering that the rod bearings on a well built moderate performance cleveland street engine don't have any problems when stock crank bearings are used.

It also sounds like George Pence said that 114 camshaft lsa was ideal for a mildly built cleveland engine, then later changed his mind and said that less lsa was better.

.

 

[tony-muscle]

someone also mentioned fully grooved crank bearings. i would not use those.

.

I got that from George Pence. He says that the boss 351 had them and they double the amount of oil that gets to the connecting rods.

It doesn't matter where the info came from. You still need  a good oil wedge to form and a full width bearing on the thrust side on a street engine. Fully grooved bearings interfere with the oil wedge formation plus the amount of bearing surface is reduced by around 20%. Not a great idea for a street engine. Nascar engines used fully grooved bearings for a while and they rebuilt them after every race. You will not be running at 7000 rpm for 300 miles at a time. You need to build an engine for a particular app, and your app should not use fully grooved bearings.

.

Just to clarify, I pointed out to cam bearings that are grooved on the OD.

 

[jpaz]

I got that from George Pence. He says that the boss 351 had them and they double the amount of oil that gets to the connecting rods.

It doesn't matter where the info came from. You still need  a good oil wedge to form and a full width bearing on the thrust side on a street engine. Fully grooved bearings interfere with the oil wedge formation plus the amount of bearing surface is reduced by around 20%. Not a great idea for a street engine. Nascar engines used fully grooved bearings for a while and they rebuilt them after every race. You will not be running at 7000 rpm for 300 miles at a time. You need to build an engine for a particular app, and your app should not use fully grooved bearings.

It also sounds like George Pence said 114 can lsa was ideal for a mildly built cleveland engine, then later changed his mind and and said that less lsa was better.

..

Oh ok I’ll just make sure to use the normal upper grooved one. 

Didn’t see where he changed his mind about LSA.

 

[barnett468]

It doesn't matter where the info came from. You still need  a good oil wedge to form and a full width bearing on the thrust side on a street engine. Fully grooved bearings interfere with the oil wedge formation plus the amount of bearing surface is reduced by around 20%. Not a great idea for a street engine. Nascar engines used fully grooved bearings for a while and they rebuilt them after every race. You will not be running at 7000 rpm for 300 miles at a time. You need to build an engine for a particular app, and your app should not use fully grooved bearings.

A half grooved bearing is more than sufficient, especially considering that the rod bearings on a well built moderate performance cleveland street engine don't have any problems when stock crank bearings are used, but if it is going to concern you too much you can run 3/4 grooved bearings if you want.

https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/main-bearings/make/ford/engine-size/5-8l-351/groove-style/3-4

It also sounds like George Pence said that 114 camshaft lsa was ideal for a mildly built cleveland engine, then later changed his mind and said that less lsa was better.

From Clevite.

"half grooved mains improve the life of the lower main bearing shell"

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