Determine Value of 1973 Mach 1 With a 351M (Actually a 351C!)

[73mach1whiskey]

I'm thinking it's time to sell my 73 but as seen in the title it has a big negative. I'm not sure how to determine comps and was hoping you guys that know your stuff can give an opinion. Pictures of the car are below and a link to an album I created on here to show problem areas, or areas I think a buyer would be interested in. It's difficult to move the car out of the garage so the lighting isn't great.

EDIT: Okay so I might be wrong about it being a 351M which is good I guess! I'll have to check the casting when I get some time.

EDIT 2: It is a 351C and from what I can tell is numbers matching. 3F "I" 05917 The transmission has too much crud to see and I'm not too concerned about that. So a big thanks to Hemikiller and others. Picture on my block

Hagerty "values" it at 26k although, how much do I take off for the 351M or is that even a reasonable starting point? I live near Louisville KY. Not worried about getting top dollar, just a good starting price for negotiation and a ballpark that would be fair for both parties.

Thank you and sorry if I have left something out or put too much!

What's wrong, that I know of:

• 351M which I recently discovered when trying to replace the timing chain. I have the "wall." Apparently it could be a 400 block but I don't know if that would make a difference in value?
• Transmission leaks really bad if car sits for a while. I assume a seal or seals.
• A PO decided to put aftermarket hood pins on which ruins the hood.
• AC has been removed but I do have all of the original equipment
• No radio but I do have the radio bezel. (although not in the photos)
• Lower right side rear quarter has some rust and previous bad body work done.
• Some paint defects because my dumbass can't park in the garage.
• Driver seat is bent and i swapped it with the passenger

Some good points: (maybe)

• Working Ram Air
• Has not been driven in the rain or snow since probably the early 90's
• It does run good and accelerates well once you get above 50 or so.

Other Details:

• Car has an automatic, I assume whatever was original.
• It has 143,000 miles, at least on the body. I'd assume the odometer has rolled over considering it doesn't have the original engine.
• I've known the car since I was a kid but I don't know the story on the engine. Hell, my dad always said it had a Cleveland so I don't think he knew. Explains why we never had much power on take-off.
• VIN: 3F05H105917

Link to album I hope is here

 

[Hemikiller]

I don't see the "wall" or raised rib next to the distributor, and the shape of the front of the block is completely wrong to be a 351M/400. I'd get under the car to verify the casting number by the starter. This looks like a 351C to me. Get a mirror and look on the block behind the driver's side cylinder head, there should be a partial VIN stamp.

Overall, the car looks like a great cruiser. The 73 H-codes could have 2.75 or 3.25 gear from the factory. If it's a factory RamAir car, then it would have 3.25. The really tall rear tires won't help acceleration much. A little fiddling with the timing can often yield tremendous results. The body work on the quarters doesn't look bad at all, I've seen much, much worse.

Overall, your tone on the car seems very down. You've got a great car there, don't sell it or yourself short.


Your engine pic----

 

[Sheriff41]

What would you pay for it? It seems like a good project car for someone wanting to get into Mustangs. Advertise it for what you think it's worth and be upfront about the engine. Be patient and willing to negotiate. GLWS.

 

[Sheriff41]

I don't see the "wall" or raised rib next to the distributor, and the shape of the front of the block is completely wrong to be a 351M/400. I'd get under the car to verify the casting number by the starter. This looks like a 351C to me. Get a mirror and look on the block behind the driver's side cylinder head, there should be a partial VIN stamp.

Overall, the car looks like a great cruiser. The 73 H-codes could have 2.75 or 3.25 gear from the factory. If it's a factory RamAir car, then it would have 3.25. The really tall rear tires won't help acceleration much. A little fiddling with the timing can often yield tremendous results. The body work on the quarters doesn't look bad at all, I've seen much, much worse.

Overall, your tone on the car seems very down. You've got a great car there, don't sell it or yourself short.


Your engine pic----

View attachment 87765

View attachment 87768

View attachment 87769

Don't the M-engines have the larger bell housing pattern also?

 

[72mokk1]

I agree with Hemikiller, it is a nice car for 51 years old. My 02H code has a ton of flaws to me, but the average person doesn't see any of them until I point them out.

 

[73mach1whiskey]

I don't see the "wall" or raised rib next to the distributor, and the shape of the front of the block is completely wrong to be a 351M/400. I'd get under the car to verify the casting number by the starter. This looks like a 351C to me. Get a mirror and look on the block behind the driver's side cylinder head, there should be a partial VIN stamp.

Overall, the car looks like a great cruiser. The 73 H-codes could have 2.75 or 3.25 gear from the factory. If it's a factory RamAir car, then it would have 3.25. The really tall rear tires won't help acceleration much. A little fiddling with the timing can often yield tremendous results. The body work on the quarters doesn't look bad at all, I've seen much, much worse.

Overall, your tone on the car seems very down. You've got a great car there, don't sell it or yourself short.

Appreciate all of the info. Perhaps I am wrong on the motor I thought I had the wall. Any idea why the 351M timing chain ended up working though when the others did not? I do see what you mean in your pics about not seeing the wall so maybe I am looking at it wrong.

I guess maybe I'm down on it just due to the lack of power and it seems everybody has something built with 800+ HP nowadays lol.

Thanks again and any insight into how the other timing chains didn't work would be appreciated!

 

[cv_72mustang]

Hey it's a great car and still around. Don't get discouraged about this or that. Mine is totally stock and dog slow and I don't care.

 

[Sheriff41]

Put a lower gear in the rear end for quicker acceleration. Many of our cars came with a relatively high gear that was good for mpg's but not for performance.

 

[Don C]

Appreciate all of the info. Perhaps I am wrong on the motor I thought I had the wall. Any idea why the 351M timing chain ended up working though when the others did not? I do see what you mean in your pics about not seeing the wall so maybe I am looking at it wrong.

I guess maybe I'm down on it just due to the lack of power and it seems everybody has something built with 800+ HP nowadays lol.

Thanks again and any insight into how the other timing chains didn't work would be appreciated!

My guess is that the first timing chain they gave you was for a Windsor, a common mistake at parts counters. Where did you get them, and what were/are the part numbers?

 

[72mokk1]

Appreciate all of the info. Perhaps I am wrong on the motor I thought I had the wall. Any idea why the 351M timing chain ended up working though when the others did not? I do see what you mean in your pics about not seeing the wall so maybe I am looking at it wrong.

I guess maybe I'm down on it just due to the lack of power and it seems everybody has something built with 800+ HP nowadays lol.

Thanks again and any insight into how the other timing chains didn't work would be appreciated!

No 800 HP here, I had a 4V Cleveland built to less than 400 HP, I think the C6 robs 60 HP or so...and the flex fan robs about 15 HP...? All in all I think I am getting less than 300 HP to the rear wheels. You got a head turner without having to burn the back tires off.

 

[73mach1whiskey]

My guess is that the first timing chain they gave you was for a Windsor, a common mistake at parts counters. Where did you get them, and what were/are the part numbers?

Well it could have been user error. I got them from Rockauto. I tried these two first:
CLOYES 91138
CLOYES C3004K

Then I ordered this one CLOYES C3009K for a 79 351 F100 since someone (not on this forum) suggested it might be an M motor. When that worked I assumed it must be a 351M.

However, I checked a few minutes ago and the motor appears to be a 351C. 3F "I" 05917 is what is stamped on my block which the last four match my VIN.

Is it possible someone put a cam and timing gear from a 351M? If so why would you want to?

Thanks!

 

[72MustangSprint]

Love the blue with argent color scheme, it that the original color? Marti report ?

 

[Cleveland Crush]

Well it could have been user error. I got them from Rockauto. I tried these two first:
CLOYES 91138
CLOYES C3004K

Then I ordered this one CLOYES C3009K for a 79 351 F100 since someone (not on this forum) suggested it might be an M motor. When that worked I assumed it must be a 351M.

However, I checked a few minutes ago and the motor appears to be a 351C. 3F "I" 05917 is what is stamped on my block which the last four match my VIN.

Is it possible someone put a cam and timing gear from a 351M? If so why would you want to?

Thanks!

The Cloyes 9-1138 AND c3004k are both for the Ford 302 engine. Your current Cloyes 3009k fits all the 335 series: 351c, 351m and 400.

 

[giantpune]

Having the numbers matching, correct motor for that car made the value go way up in my book.
With a 351M, that would have been a combination that was never made at the factory, so cobbled together with a mystery assortment of parts. But now the story is its the engine that came in the car, which gives me much more faith that it is not all cobbled together by some yokel shade tree bubba.

A H code mach1 with factory ram air and a fold down back seat in that condition, $26k could be right on the money. Or maybe a little high. It is very location dependent. Our style of cars in Cali seem to go for $5-8k more than down here in the south east on average.

It does look like maybe the car has been apart or wrecked. Some things under the hood and around the headlight buckets are not quite they way they should be. Wiring looks to have been repaired and wrapped in the cheap auto store plastic loom.

Some cons I see are no tach, wrong steering wheel, base interior, looks like incorrect rear spring mounts, and a couple ugly spots in the paint. But overall looks pretty rust free and in good shape.

 

[Hemikiller]

Like CC noted, the listing was incorrect. Their S3004K "standard duty engine" timing kit crosses to a set for a 302. The 9-1138 is also for a 302. Cloyes goofed the first, RA the second one. 351C/351M and 400 all use the same timing set. It's too late now, but an adjustable timing set advancing the cam would have given you some of the low end acceleration you are lacking.

You can also add some zip by advancing the base timing to around 12° BTDC. The factory spec was for emissions purposes. You do have to be careful to not go too far, or you'll have detonation under light load.

 

[73mach1whiskey]

Love the blue with argent color scheme, it that the original color? Marti report ?

Thanks! I don't have the Marti but now that I know it has the original engine I may invest in one.

As far as I'm aware it is the original scheme. However I've been wrong before lol

 

[73mach1whiskey]

The Cloyes 9-1138 AND c3004k are both for the Ford 302 engine. Your current Cloyes 3009k fits all the 335 series: 351c, 351m and 400.

Well I guess that's on me but at least it makes sense now why those didn't fit. Appreciate all of the info here!

 

[73mach1whiskey]

Like CC noted, the listing was incorrect. Their S3004K "standard duty engine" timing kit crosses to a set for a 302. The 9-1138 is also for a 302. Cloyes goofed the first, RA the second one. 351C/351M and 400 all use the same timing set. It's too late now, but an adjustable timing set advancing the cam would have given you some of the low end acceleration you are lacking.

You can also add some zip by advancing the base timing to around 12° BTDC. The factory spec was for emissions purposes. You do have to be careful to not go too far, or you'll have detonation under light load.

Thank you again and this is something to look into moving forward. Really appreciate it!

 

[73mach1whiskey]

Having the numbers matching, correct motor for that car made the value go way up in my book.
With a 351M, that would have been a combination that was never made at the factory, so cobbled together with a mystery assortment of parts. But now the story is its the engine that came in the car, which gives me much more faith that it is not all cobbled together by some yokel shade tree bubba.

A H code mach1 with factory ram air and a fold down back seat in that condition, $26k could be right on the money. Or maybe a little high. It is very location dependent. Our style of cars in Cali seem to go for $5-8k more than down here in the south east on average.

It does look like maybe the car has been apart or wrecked. Some things under the hood and around the headlight buckets are not quite they way they should be. Wiring looks to have been repaired and wrapped in the cheap auto store plastic loom.

Some cons I see are no tach, wrong steering wheel, base interior, looks like incorrect rear spring mounts, and a couple ugly spots in the paint. But overall looks pretty rust free and in good shape.

Thank you for the compliments and all of the information. I always wondered about the interior especially the seats.

Never realized that about the headlight buckets before but good to know.

Everyone has been very helpful. Overall this is certainly good news moving forward regardless of what I decide to do with the car.

 

[mjlan]

Your car does not look that bad, it runs and drives and does not appear to have any serious rust. While it lacks a lot of desirable options it does have Ram Air and a fold down which are great ones.

I'm in MI and would expect it to be priced around $25k here.

Oh, and it is a great color combo!

Good luck!