Determing "numbers matching" on our cars

[Jim and Jutta]

When I purchased my 71 Mach 1 the seller advertised it as numbers matching. Honestly I would have bought it for what he was asking even it wasn't numbers matching so didn't bother verifying the information was accurate. Plus at the time I bought it I didn't really know being numbers matching could increase it's value. I've since purchased a Marti report that verified it has the correct (type) engine, trans, color, etc. The only difference is apparently someone added the ram air system since it wasn't listed on the marti as original to the car.

Just for my own information I'd like to determine if it really is a numbers matching car, how does one go about doing it?

 

[rvrtrash]

At the rear of the block, on the left hand side, just below where the head mounts, a number will be crudely stamped in the block. It will be 1F (or R or wherever the car was built) and the last six digits of the VIN. If the tranny is an automatic, the same number will be stamped in the top of the main case. If it's a manual, it will be stamped in the top front edge of the case. None of these locations are easy to see with the engine/tranny in the car.

Steve

 

[Tnfastbk]

Not many true matching numbers cars out the the term "matching numbers" has been watered down IMO. Here is a bit from an article. I will post a link at the bottom if you want to read it all...............

Depending on whom you talk to, the definition of a “matching numbers” car may vary. A classic car purist might say that a truly original, matching numbers car will still have all the parts that it was manufactured with, including the tiniest nut and bolt. That would be very hard to find in an older car, so a more practical definition might be that all the parts will be either from the assembly line at the time of production or have been replaced with authentic NOS (new old stock) parts.

The most general use of the term “matching numbers” would mean that the engine and transmission are marked with the same sequence number as the chassis VIN number, and the rear axle/differential’s date code and casting number corresponds with the vehicle that's being checked.

http://classiccars.about.com/od/findingtherightcar/a/nubmatch.htm

 

[OMS]

Personally I have always went with matching numbers to mean.

Motor, trans and body numbers match.

Numbers matching.

How can you say matching down to the tiniest nut and bolt, unless the nut and bolt are numbered.

 

[Tnfastbk]

Personally I have always went with matching numbers to mean.

Motor, trans and body numbers match.

Numbers matching.

How can you say matching down to the tiniest nut and bolt, unless the nut and bolt are numbered.

If you read the article it says what it left the factory with or NOS parts so guess if you have not owned the car since new and never drove it its a matter of how you present it and your own morals

 

[Jim and Jutta]

Personally I have always went with matching numbers to mean.

Motor, trans and body numbers match.

Numbers matching.

How can you say matching down to the tiniest nut and bolt, unless the nut and bolt are numbered.

I believe that's probably the most accepted definition of a numbers matching car...at least I would feel comfortable saying my car is numbers matching if the motor, trans and body match. Since I have a C6 Trans it sounds as if the only way for me to check is for the engine to be out??? I'm wondering if a snake camera would work now that I know where to look?

http://www.gizmag.com/flexible-snake-scope-camera/15108/

 

[OMS]

Who ever wrote the article should think about...

Numbers matching would refer to VIN numbered parts.

If you are talking about belts, hoses, nuts and bolts what has that got to do with the VIN number. That would be a survivor car.

Personally I have always went with matching numbers to mean.

Motor, trans and body numbers match.

Numbers matching.

How can you say matching down to the tiniest nut and bolt, unless the nut and bolt are numbered.

I believe that's probably the most accepted definition of a numbers matching car...at least I would feel comfortable saying my car is numbers matching if the motor, trans and body match. Since I have a C6 Trans it sounds as if the only way for me to check is for the engine to be out??? I'm wondering if a snake camera would work now that I know where to look?

http://www.gizmag.com/flexible-snake-scope-camera/15108/

You can use a mirror and flash light.

It is easier with the cowl brace out but you can still work your way in / around it.

 

[Tnfastbk]

We just agee to disagree on this subject.

 

[hyena429]

Numbers matching does usualy means body ..motor...and runing gear...But i have to say in today's restoring..Even the marking on the top of every bolt matters ....I was told by my mustang restore guy dont let anyone touch the original bolts holding my option tag under the fender.....Cause alot of mustang judges will note if they been messed with now days...Easy to fake a option tag i guess.....And even check and make sure it has the right year of bolt and right sealent goo on each one....I know its getting crazy about that stuff..But they are right too a point..Its not totaly restored or original..If it doesnt have correct nuts and bolts...Even the right glue they used ...Yes its very anal....But that is what makes them perfict ..rather than just nice

 

[Jim and Jutta]

OK, I wasn't able to read the serial number of the engine using the mirror (probably looking wrong place) but I do have a pic of stamped lettering on the side of the block. DOAE-L with what appears to be ok30 under it. I know this isn't linked to the VIN# of the car but it would be interesting if someone knew what the stamp letters stand for.

 

[goodnigh]

That is a casting number indicating a 1970 engine with the date code below.

I am still under the impression Ford only put the VIN number on the Boss engine.

mike

 

[Jim and Jutta]

That is a casting number indicating a 1970 engine with the date code below.

I am still under the impression Ford only put the VIN number on the Boss engine.

mike

Marti report shows the car was built December 70 so that's "consistant" with it being the original engine.

 

[goodnigh]

That is a casting number indicating a 1970 engine with the date code below.

I am still under the impression Ford only put the VIN number on the Boss engine.

mike

Marti report shows the car was built December 70 so that's "consistant" with it being the original engine.

Not necessarily the original engine that was installed at the factory.

Recently purchased a long block from Don of OMS (site vendor). The casting number on the engine is D1 which matches the number

stamped on my frame near the battery, D1. So the chassis, engine,

transmission and rear end on my car all have the same casting

number. You Could call this a matching numbers car.

mike

 

[rvrtrash]

That is a casting number indicating a 1970 engine with the date code below.

I am still under the impression Ford only put the VIN number on the Boss engine.

mike

IIRC, all engines and transmissions from 1968 on had the VIN stamped in them, due to federal regs.

Steve

 

[rpmcarter]

Not many true matching numbers cars out the the term "matching numbers" has been watered down IMO. Here is a bit from an article. I will post a link at the bottom if you want to read it all...............

Depending on whom you talk to, the definition of a “matching numbers” car may vary. A classic car purist might say that a truly original, matching numbers car will still have all the parts that it was manufactured with, including the tiniest nut and bolt. That would be very hard to find in an older car, so a more practical definition might be that all the parts will be either from the assembly line at the time of production or have been replaced with authentic NOS (new old stock) parts.

The most general use of the term “matching numbers” would mean that the engine and transmission are marked with the same sequence number as the chassis VIN number, and the rear axle/differential’s date code and casting number corresponds with the vehicle that's being checked.

http://classiccars.about.com/od/findingtherightcar/a/nubmatch.htm

to this point one might consider that "FORD" never had true matching numbers for some time until the 70's. Even our beloved 7173's did not reveal actual matching of motor tranny and body. Our cars had a sequence or "time frame" that each item was built and installed that matched more by months than specific to the body of the car. Chevrolet on the other hand DID.

That is a casting number indicating a 1970 engine with the date code below.

I am still under the impression Ford only put the VIN number on the Boss engine.

mike

Marti report shows the car was built December 70 so that's "consistant" with it being the original engine.

Not necessarily the original engine that was installed at the factory.

Recently purchased a long block from Don of OMS (site vendor). The casting number on the engine is D1 which matches the number

stamped on my frame near the battery, D1. So the chassis, engine,

transmission and rear end on my car all have the same casting

number. You Could call this a matching numbers car.

mike

odd and TRUE

 

[rvrtrash]

Not to ruffle feathers, but my '68, '71 and '73 Mustangs, and my '70 Cougar, all have matching numbers on the engine, tranny and body. I have a spare '71 Fairlane 302 block and a '73 Cougar 4 bolt main Cleveland block that have numbers as well. To help the original poster, here are the locations for the numbers on a cleveland and a C6. You can see the head gasket on the engine shot to help locate where yours will be (left side), probably poorly stamped, covered in gunk and hard to decipher.

Steve

 

[rpmcarter]

Those are definitely a match. Interesting because it's always been a Chebbie vs Ford thing. I'll have to call up my Ford Guru and tell him he's wrong. My 67 does not match to the body and serial but do match correctly by month of build to both and I bought it from the original family.

 

[goodnigh]

Not to ruffle feathers, but my '68, '71 and '73 Mustangs, and my '70 Cougar, all have matching numbers on the engine, tranny and body. I have a spare '71 Fairlane 302 block and a '73 Cougar 4 bolt main Cleveland block that have numbers as well. To help the original poster, here are the locations for the numbers on a cleveland and a C6. You can see the head gasket on the engine shot to help locate where yours will be (left side), probably poorly stamped, covered in gunk and hard to decipher.

Steve

What cylinder would that number be closest to?

Good Work. You are not ruffling any feathers, just

making us think harder. I have a toploader so the

number would be in a different location.

mike

 

[Shipwright]

According to MustangTek the casting # D0AE-L identifies the block as being a 1970 351C with 2 bolt mains and was used in the Torino and Mustang (unconfirmed). The same block was also used in the 1971 Boss 351 and had a four bolt main (confirmed).

The other number identifies the casting date. In the number 0K30 the first number (0) denotes the year (1970), the next letter denotes the month with A = Jan, B = Feb, C = Mar etc.. while skipping the letters I and O because they can be confused for numbers (the Military frequently does this), therefore K = Oct. the last two numbers denote the day of the month 30th.

So your engine was cast on Friday (crappy day) 30 Oct 1970 and could possibly have been used in a 1970 (2 bolt main) Torino or Mustang and was positivley used in the 1971 (4 bolt main) 351 Boss Mustang.

Remember parts control back in the day was nowhere near as tight as today and there was a lot of mixing and matching of components. If anyone else has more information I'd really like to read it.