Does anyone recognize these rockers?

[turtle5353]

My experience with China (we have several manufacturing facilities up and running there) is that they are primarily what we call 'Build to Print', which means that they do not design, develop, debug, anything they make, they simply build it.

My issue with buying Chinese made speed parts is that they are simply copying an existing design, pulling cost out, and then selling it at cheaper cost without any thought towards what impacts the corners they have cut have on part quality and performance.

Slam me if you will, but my experience is that there are (potentially) very serious problems with a lot of the decisions that are made in building these cheap parts, but they are very attractive because of their initially low cost.

Is there enough clearance to the valve spring retainer? Are the bearing materials hardened to the right tensile strength? Is the aluminum raw material of sufficient strength and quality? Good luck finding some answers to those questions. On the flip side, you break a Harland Sharp rocker arm? I'd be willing to bet you can actually get someone on the phone who can help you and get you some answers or new parts.

As always- buyer beware.

There's a reason that the US OEM's are extremely careful with their joint ventures- what is deemed acceptable for Chinese domestic consumption is very likely not meeting established standards that are required here in the US.

My $0.02 from my experience. Flame away...

You break a Harland Sharp 9 times out of 10 they will send you a new one free of cost.

 

[Fabrice]

[You break a Harland Sharp 9 times out of 10 they will send you a new one free of cost.]

yeah, I wish that one was true too...

See, I'm in Europe and all these "free shipment, free of costs etc" doesn't apply to us.

When I buy US (which I do quite often), this means in best case scenarios twice the price you guys pay, and often near 3 times

for the heavy ones when it arrives here.

Then you have the support. I bought an Holley Sniper this spring. While install went on itself ok.

I've been in contact with the tech support for a too rich case during cranking and a missing 20 ft fuel hoses in the kit.

Service was ok, except its another 50 on phone bill because you are 9 out of 10 times on hold (listening to some hard-rock music ),

and the missing hose "free of charge" was billed 52 euros on arrival while the hose itself has a value of 80 dollars.

UPS and dutch import taxes don't give a sh.. about the "No charge to customer" written in big fat red letters by Holley.

I got in far past troubles with Summit and NPD about "wrong" parts. They both have these nice return policies, "send it back, no question ask, you get a new one",

just like your Harland customer service example.

In practice, this means pay for return, pay tax on transport again when receiving the "free of charge" stuffs not to mention the waiting of nearly 2 months before you get your stuffs back.

In short: when it's wrong, 9 out of 10 times, it's cheaper and quicker to order new ones (and go swear in garden loudly).

No matter how good the customers service is.

 

[midlife]

The US should invade and take over the Netherlands, like the Russians did Ukraine. Then your shipping/VAT taxes would disappear! And we can go visit and take advantage of your *ah-hem* "coffee shops". I'll talk to Trump about this tonite...

 

[Fabrice]

[ I'll talk to Trump about this tonite...]

If he's not too busy prepping another fantastic plan, show him the Netherlands

 

[Hemikiller]

My experience with China (we have several manufacturing facilities up and running there) is that they are primarily what we call 'Build to Print', which means that they do not design, develop, debug, anything they make, they simply build it.

My issue with buying Chinese made speed parts is that they are simply copying an existing design, pulling cost out, and then selling it at cheaper cost without any thought towards what impacts the corners they have cut have on part quality and performance.

Slam me if you will, but my experience is that there are (potentially) very serious problems with a lot of the decisions that are made in building these cheap parts, but they are very attractive because of their initially low cost.

Is there enough clearance to the valve spring retainer? Are the bearing materials hardened to the right tensile strength? Is the aluminum raw material of sufficient strength and quality? Good luck finding some answers to those questions. On the flip side, you break a Harland Sharp rocker arm? I'd be willing to bet you can actually get someone on the phone who can help you and get you some answers or new parts.

As always- buyer beware.

There's a reason that the US OEM's are extremely careful with their joint ventures- what is deemed acceptable for Chinese domestic consumption is very likely not meeting established standards that are required here in the US.

My $0.02 from my experience. Flame away...

Having worked in manufacturing for over 20 years, this is my experience exactly. They will deliver exactly what you spec out. You have to make sure your prints and specs are 100% in order before ever handing something to a Chinese vendor for quote. You also have to QC -everything- they send, as they'll try to cut corners and lower their cost. It's a game that people are hopefully getting tired of.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

You guys must be dealing with some of the cheaper shops in China. I would say that about 80% to 90% of all automotive tooling is built in China, South Korea or Taiwan. As far as them not designing anything. Our shop did all their own designs. That was part of my job when there was to do design reviews with our customers. The shop uses the customers tooling specifications to base the design on but I never had a customer send up a design.

I said before the head designer, Eric, was the absolute best I have every worked with and I was in tooling since 1966 when I went to trade school. He was fast, accurate and did what the customer ask for.

We did jobs in days that were quoted for weeks and months in the U.S.. The components we used came from the U.S. guide pins, nitrogen cylinders, punches, screws, etc. if the customer specified them. We built tooling for companies all over the world. One of the specialties we had was for IP work or Instrument Panel. The tolerances were about 1/2 the norm or stampings.

Everything was done in 3-D so that it went to a CNC.

In one instance the Canadian customs impounded a shipment of tooling that was to produce components for BMW in Spartanburg, S.C.. The customer pissed the customs people off so they put the die back on a boat to China, lol. Production was due to start on the vehicle in a week and 5 weeks on a boat back to China. We built another temporary die that made the part in 3 days and flew it over to prevent a delay in the launch of the vehicle. This tool was over 3 meters in length. We built the original in 21 DAYS. No shop in the U.S. or Canada would even consider quoting it.

The parts were to print you have to do the normal PPAP Production Part Approval Process and send the parts to the customer that you inspected with the data to support.

China is not what most think it is. Their mass transportation system puts everyone to shame. The high speed trains the go about 160 mph, always left on time and arrived on time to the second. There is never a crash because they had the common sense enough to elevate the tracks so no cars or cattle or animals crossing. To watch how they build the systems was amazing. I did watch as they put a new track through the town I lived in Wuhu.

I still say that China is way ahead of the U.S. and everyone here just puts their head in the sand and says no way. They did invent gun powder and have been building stuff for a thousand years before the U.S. was founded.

They run most of the taxis and buses and trucks of CNG and here in the U.S. we are afraid of it, lol.

We have trains that were designed in the 1950's that crash all the time and still use wooden rail road ties. We are the only country in the world to do that one.

Yes I am an American born and will die one but we are not the world leader most think we are.

No that don't have NASCAR or NHRA in China but they have the ability to design and build anything.

If you are having issues with the Chinese try getting something built in Japan I hated their work and everyone thinks they build such great cars. They sit there in meetings nodding their heads and that does not mean they are going to do it they are just bobble heads, lol.

Damn gas is getting expensive.

 

[tony-muscle]

Interesting turn this thread has taken. It has been good to read everyone's opinions about the China debacle.

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