Ford v. Ferrari

[Spike Morelli]

Kcmash,

The Shelby American Netflix film is a good one. I have watched it before. Years ago, I had a '65 Hi-Po ( K code ) GT coupe, and a '66 GT-350 ( not at the same time ). Those cars were really so fun to drive, so much so, that I had to drive into Santa Monica to "Villem B. Haan", ( a sports car accessories dealer here in LA ) to buy some leather driving gloves to wear when driving the GT-350. No, I didn't need them, it's just that the feel, sight, sounds, and smell of that GT-350 made you feel like you were, in fact, driving a race car. Back then, friends would ask me how fast the car was, and I'd take them up this long twisty hill road, throttle steering the thing around turns by mashing the gas pedal to kick out the rear end...…..waaaaaaay before the kids of today discovered "drifting". Between 3000 and 6500 rpm, that thing could sing. The speedo went up to 120 and you could pin the speedo. Although today, I own a '71 Mach 1 351c, which I love, I am forever a fan of the Hi-Po and "Cobra-ized" 289...…….I even have a real Hi-Po 289 engine tucked away in the garage, though I don't have the car to put it in.

I still have the "Cobra" jacket I bought from Ford in '72 as well.

 

[Spike Morelli]

Years ago, I was told that inside the cover of the 427 Cobra Owner's Manual, was a statement,...….."The joy of owning your new 427 Cobra, is that every car on the road ahead of you, is only there , because you want them to be there ." I can't confirm whether or not this was really printed in the Owner's Manual, but I like the way it sounds.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

Going to post this one more time.

Shelby failed at every project he had with Ford. After 1966 Ford pulled it all from California and built in house. 

The GT-40 was a failure at Shelby and Holman Moody pulled the cars out of failure. Shelby failed at every thing he tried. History states that but people think he is so great when he was a failure. 

He designed nothing on the Mustang either Ford or Holman Moody did the engineering. H&M got the GT-40 to work not shelby. You should go talk to the Ford people in engineering like Gale Halderman he will set it straight. Shelby failed at ever attempt he made. Mustang, Europa & Mexican just a hand full ever sold. FAILURE. Show me a different result. FAILURE. Shelby was nothing.

 

[6972boss]

Hmmm, David could you post this "one more time"??? don't think you are emotional enough. Lighten up Frances!

Maybe we can get someone to post a opinion based on facts not personal belief. You are however,  entitled to your "opinion" and reading yours is entertaining but not true.

Just something to put in your pipe and smoke.

CS won the 59 Le Mans. Failure? Hardly! He did it with a serious heart condition, taking meds while racing. Failure or just one helluva tough guy?? 

Twice sports illustrated driver of the year.  Failure??

CS brought us the cobra. (Yes, he used friends and racers to build it) this car endures today! Legendary performance! Failure?? He never intended to sell 50K cars a year.

CS team brought us the GT350-GT500. NUFF SAID!!

Ford still puts his name on their cars. IF HE WAS SUCH A FAILURE I DOUBT FORD WOULD DO THIS!! (Hello. McFly!!)

This is just a few points. There is a much larger list but these should make my point.These are FACTS!

So, I ask, what have you done with your life? Pretty bold of you to stand in mud and point fingers at the winners podium.

Cheers!!

 

[machattack]

Boys, Boys......... It doesnt change that it was a hell of a movie! I waited for the dvd to come out this week. Bought one so I could sit in my living room with my wife Sally (mustang Sally) and cheer on our Ford Friends.

It was like a Rocky movie in some ways. Cheering for the under dog and winning. God I love it!

 

[Stanglover]

I saw the movie at the Cinema when it first came out and even my wife, who's not really that much into cars, loved it. We bought the Blue-ray and watched it last night. We both saw stuff we missed the first time, so no doubt I'll watch it many times.

I'm not going to comment on the Shelby stuff, but in the movie, not once did they mention that in the search for the perfect car, in England of course, they looked a the Lotus before going to Lola. The Lotus Europa was the first one. Then they went to Lola who already had a successful race car, the Lola T70.That and the Mk 6 Prototyp developed into the GT40.

 Ok, I did a google search and found "Petrolicious.com" and found an article about the Lola Mk 6 Prototype that did evolve into the GT 40 It's worth a read imo.

So basically the GT 40 was a Lola with a Ford 289 in the back. The movie never mentions that fact. Not once did the even mention Lola, just that the GT40 came from England. So, was it really the only "American made car" to win Lemans???

I believe it would have been around 1966, I remember seeing a GT40 on display at a nearby Petrol station in Mosely, Birmingham where I lived. There was a glass display "case" if you like out in front. The GT40 was in Gulf colors and had an information board with it. It described the fact it had an aluminium honey-comb chassis and a Ford 427 motor amongst other stuff I don't remember. Oh what a car!! 

( I actually know where one is in a private collection)

EDIT: Google www.petrolicious.com then add Lola Mk6 Very interesting read.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

Hmmm, David could you post this "one more time"??? don't think you are emotional enough. Lighten up Frances!

Maybe we can get someone to post a opinion based on facts not personal belief. You are however,  entitled to your "opinion" and reading yours is entertaining but not true.

Just something to put in your pipe and smoke.

CS won the 59 Le Mans. Failure? Hardly! He did it with a serious heart condition, taking meds while racing. Failure or just one helluva tough guy?? 

Twice sports illustrated driver of the year.  Failure??

CS brought us the cobra. (Yes, he used friends and racers to build it) this car endures today! Legendary performance! Failure?? He never intended to sell 50K cars a year.

CS team brought us the GT350-GT500. NUFF SAID!!

Ford still puts his name on their cars. IF HE WAS SUCH A FAILURE I DOUBT FORD WOULD DO THIS!! (Hello. McFly!!)

This is just a few points. There is a much larger list but these should make my point.These are FACTS!

So, I ask, what have you done with your life? Pretty bold of you to stand in mud and point fingers at the winners podium.

Cheers!!

You for sure need to travel to Gale Halderman the head engineer for the Mustang and get the info from the man that lived it and did it. Gale Halderman told the group at the Mustang Owner's Museum the whole story. He said that shelby would show up in Michigan at the Ford design center with his girl friend. He would walk around the model of the Shelby that Ford built a couple of times and say Looks good and leave. He never made a suggestion and did not engineer any of it.

Ford had Holman Moody send Shelby one of their racing Falcons that they had been building for years that was raced in Europe with great success. Shelby copied the engine & suspension modifications to the Shelby. 

As far as the Cobra he copied what had already been done by a race team in Europe that installed Ford engine in AC Bristol body way before he did. 

Shelby owned zero of the Shelby operation Ford owned 100% he was a car salesman and not very good at it. After loosing all the money they could afford Ford shut him down at end of 66 and just built on the Ford assembly line. 

Ford gave Holman Moody everything out of the Shelby California operation. Go talk to Lee Holman about that. He loves to show he has the trash can out of Shelbys office in his office. His dad melted down all the inventory of Shelby valve covers and intakes and made Holman Moody ones. 

The GT-40's were stacked up behind the H&M shop not Shelby. 

He was a failure as history shows. The only reason Ford uses his name is that all the people think he was more than he was. 

If Gale lives to be at the MOM this year I will for sure video his talk and ask him to be specific about Shelby and will post so all can hear from the man himself. This is a picture of Gale so you know who he is. He has nothing to gain to tell a lie about shelby.

Gale lives in Ohio and he will be at the April Mustang Day celebration ant the Mustang Owner's Museum. Go talk to the man that knows what took place. Shelby won very few races he rode everyone else coat tails.

 

[tony-muscle]

I saw the movie at the Cinema when it first came out and even my wife, who's not really that much into cars, loved it. We bought the Blue-ray and watched it last night. We both saw stuff we missed the first time, so no doubt I'll watch it many times.

I'm not going to comment on the Shelby stuff, but in the movie, not once did they mention that in the search for the perfect car, in England of course, they looked a the Lotus before going to Lola. The Lotus Europa was the first one. Then they went to Lola who already had a successful race car, the Lola T70.That and the Mk 6 Prototyp developed into the GT40.

 Ok, I did a google search and found "Petrolicious.com" and found an article about the Lola Mk 6 Prototype that did evolve into the GT 40 It's worth a read imo.

So basically the GT 40 was a Lola with a Ford 289 in the back. The movie never mentions that fact. Not once did the even mention Lola, just that the GT40 came from England. So, was it really the only "American made car" to win Lemans???

I believe it would have been around 1966, I remember seeing a GT40 on display at a nearby Petrol station in Mosely, Birmingham where I lived. There was a glass display "case" if you like out in front. The GT40 was in Gulf colors and had an information board with it. It described the fact it had an aluminium honey-comb chassis and a Ford 427 motor amongst other stuff I don't remember. Oh what a car!! 

( I actually know where one is in a private collection)

EDIT: Google  www.petrolicious.com then add Lola Mk6 Very interesting read.

From what I understand the first LeMans winner was the Lola chassis with the Ford motor. Then the second year it was a US chassis since they modified it with Aluminum and other mods. You are right, the movie doesn't mention this detail as it skips many others. Also, Iaccoca doesn't go to visit Shelby. It was the other way around. Movies like this are based on a true story but are hardly 100% correct. It gives us the afficionados the bug to rasearch and learn the truth.

 

[Stanglover]

I saw the movie at the Cinema when it first came out and even my wife, who's not really that much into cars, loved it. We bought the Blue-ray and watched it last night. We both saw stuff we missed the first time, so no doubt I'll watch it many times.

I'm not going to comment on the Shelby stuff, but in the movie, not once did they mention that in the search for the perfect car, in England of course, they looked a the Lotus before going to Lola. The Lotus Europa was the first one. Then they went to Lola who already had a successful race car, the Lola T70.That and the Mk 6 Prototyp developed into **the GT40.**

 Ok, I did a google search and found "Petrolicious.com" and found an article about the Lola Mk 6 Prototype that did evolve into the GT 40 It's worth a read imo.

So basically the GT 40 was a Lola with a Ford 289 in the back. The movie never mentions that fact. Not once did the even mention Lola, just that the GT40 came from England. So, was it really the only "American made car" to win Lemans???

I believe it would have been around 1966, I remember seeing a GT40 on display at a nearby Petrol station in Mosely, Birmingham where I lived. There was a glass display "case" if you like out in front. The GT40 was in Gulf colors and had an information board with it. It described the fact it had an aluminium honey-comb chassis and a Ford 427 motor amongst other stuff I don't remember. Oh what a car!! 

( I actually know where one is in a private collection)

EDIT: Google  www.petrolicious.com then add Lola Mk6 Very interesting read.

From what I understand the first LeMans winner was the Lola chassis with the Ford motor. Then the second year it was a US chassis since they modified it with Aluminum and other mods. You are right, the movie doesn't mention this detail as it skips many others. Also, Iaccoca doesn't go to visit Shelby. It was the other way around. Movies like this are based on a true story but are hardly 100% correct. It gives us the afficionados the bug to rasearch and learn the truth.

 Tony, yes indeed. I missed mentioning **the first GT40**. Latter years the chassis were US made.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[MikeGriese]

As far as movies go, it was meh. Far too many liberties were taken with the truth, the racing scenes were not that good. Lots of nice cars though.

 

[Stanglover]

As far as movies go, it was meh.  Far too many liberties were taken with the truth, the racing scenes were not that good.  Lots of nice cars though.

 Mike, not to be too critical, but when all said and done, it was a MOVIE, not a documentary. (which are available on Netflix I believe)

They made great efforts to get the car colors and details as correct as possible, but they sure missed on some of the people details. None the less, I and everybody I know enjoyed it very much and would see it again..... several times.

 

[Stanglover]

OK, now I'm being critical. In one scene, they had a motor on a dyno or test stand. Did anyone notice the carb was a Holley WITH an electric choke!!. For sure on a race car engine, the carb would have been a double pumper with mechanical secondary's. I'm not even sure Holley had electric chokes back then.

Anybody see that?

Perhaps I/we need to put this to bed now, but as I said in the post before, it was a MOVIE when all said and done.