Fuel system replacement - 71 Mach 1

[MeZapU]

For reference.  Here is a picture of my original sender, on my new gas tank about a year ago.  1973 351c car. D1ZF-9275AB  Picture taken on the left side of the car.  

 

[Fabrice]

I have a 71 429CJ on my driveway with the original tank/sending unit. If you need infos/picts to compair, i plan work on it this weekend...

 

[mustang7173]

Finally got back to working on the Mustang today after 2 days of trimming and cutting down some trees. That's too much like hard work at my young age of 70. Crawling around under the car isn't much easier either!!

Just to update on progress, I installed the new Delphi fuel pump and the new SS front section of line.......... with a bit of tweaking and it looks like the main section will also need some work. Can't ANYBODY make parts that fit!!! Comparing the old and new, close but no cigar! These are US made parts or supposed to be. No worries, I'll make 'em fit.

Time for a beer, tomorrow's another day. It's going to rain anyway so no biggy if I don't get it completed.

 More to come,

Geoff.

Stanglover,

I am glad to see others address the Not exactly Fits reproductions problem. My biggest issues is that they do not exactly fit and do NOT last as long! If that is rust around the fuel neck inlet, I recommend to treat with Ospho Metal Treatment.

http://www.ospho.com/index.htm

I would apply something to add protection to the metal of the trunk.

I added this material to the top of my new gas tanks-

http://3mcollision.com/products/sound-deadening/3m-sound-deadening-pad-08840.html



mustang7173   :bravo:

 

[Stanglover]

I have a 71 429CJ on my driveway with the original tank/sending unit. If you need infos/picts to compair, i plan work on it this weekend...

I wish I had a 429 CJ sitting in my driveway!! ( Grabber Lime, Black sports interior)

I have it sorted now thanks, but if you wish to post a close up of the tank/sender area. It might be helpful as more proof.

Thanks for your reply,

Geoff.

 

[Stanglover]

Finally got back to working on the Mustang today after 2 days of trimming and cutting down some trees. That's too much like hard work at my young age of 70. Crawling around under the car isn't much easier either!!

Just to update on progress, I installed the new Delphi fuel pump and the new SS front section of line.......... with a bit of tweaking and it looks like the main section will also need some work. Can't ANYBODY make parts that fit!!! Comparing the old and new, close but no cigar! These are US made parts or supposed to be. No worries, I'll make 'em fit.

Time for a beer, tomorrow's another day. It's going to rain anyway so no biggy if I don't get it completed.

 More to come,

Geoff.

Stanglover,

I am glad to see others address the Not exactly Fits reproductions problem. My biggest issues is that they do not exactly fit and do NOT last as long! If that is rust around the fuel neck inlet, I recommend to treat with Ospho Metal Treatment.

http://www.ospho.com/index.htm

I would apply something to add protection to the metal of the trunk.

I added this material to the top of my new gas tanks-

http://3mcollision.com/products/sound-deadening/3m-sound-deadening-pad-08840.html

mustang7173   :bravo:

 Interesting and timely reply. Thanks for the links.

 As I stated, I wrestled the 3/8" stainless steel line in yesterday and today I'll put the tank in....... I hope!

Just last night at our group coffee night, I was talking to a friend who is a manager at a very large and well know restoration company, about what he thought I should or shouldn't do to the trunk underfloor as it is in damn near pristine condition. His response was to preserve it and suggested a good coat of wax or similar, but as you note lightly remove any surface rust, which is visible near the filler neck. As for adding any type of material between the tank and trunk floor, not to do it because it can hold moisture and cause rust issues. On this, I'm not sure, but I recently read here that 72-73's had something like tar paper between the two. I had a 72 Q code that had this and the trunk floor had pin holes all over it, but no rust anywhere else. (why did I sell that car!!)

What I am going to do is add small solid rubber pads 1/16th thick to about 8 spots where rubbing is evident on the original tank. I'll take a picture later when I update again. This will stop any vibration and allow air to circulate.

I'm not going to have the opportunity right now to clean and repaint the car floor underside, as I had hoped, but soon with any luck.

 

[mustang7173]

Hello Stanglover,





Here is the Ford Motor Company Master Parts illustration showing the pads. Just FYI-

Thanks,

mustang7173

 

[Stanglover]

Hello Stanglover,





Here is the Ford Motor Company Master Parts illustration showing the pads. Just FYI-

Thanks,

mustang7173

 That's some interesting info. I do notice it says "improvise" regarding the insulation material, so is it open to interpretation, although Ford do list a part number.

 In my case and to be honest, I am not sure IF this tank is the original. It certainly has been on for many years, but there was evidence of minor rear end damage to the bumper and tail light panel, so it's entirely possible the tank was damaged and changed and no pads installed. I can find no Ford numbers on it, just an ink stamp of the manufacturer.

 

[tony-muscle]

I debated with the same issue of the insulation when I took my tank down. I don't think my tank is original, but not sure. It had two pads that look very OEM in between the tank and floor. There was no rust in either side so I ended up reusing them. I did a lot of research about it and the key is to use a material that is not hygroscopic (a material that doesn't absorb water). If the material doesn't absorb water you shouldn't have an issue with moisture retention. I was close to using some of the carpet underlayment I had laying around. I had the one I bought from CJPony for the trunk. It is cheap and you can cut it to fit. I ended up not using and keeping the pad that was there. In hindsight I should have replaced it. As far as I understand the underlayment does not absorb water.

With regards to the sending unit I ended up using one I bought from Dan of Ohio. I first bought one from CJP to which I adapted a second return tube. However, this one leaked through the electrical connector. I ended up installing the one from CJP at the top of the tank used as a return from the EFI pump. Before installing at the top I removed the electrical stuff, float and sealed the connector with gas tank sealer to avoid possible fume leakage.

 

[Stanglover]

I debated with the same issue of the insulation when I took my tank down. I don't think my tank is original, but not sure. It had two pads that look very OEM in between the tank and floor. There was no rust in either side so I ended up reusing them. I did a lot of research about it and the key is to use a material that is not hygroscopic (a material that doesn't absorb water). If the material doesn't absorb water you shouldn't have an issue with moisture retention. I was close to using some of the carpet underlayment I had laying around. I had the one I bought from CJPony for the trunk. It is cheap and you can cut it to fit. I ended up not using and keeping the pad that was there. In hindsight I should have replaced it. As far as I understand the underlayment does not absorb water.

With regards to the sending unit I ended up using one I bought from Dan of Ohio. I first bought one from CJP to which I adapted a second return tube. However, this one leaked through the electrical connector. I ended up installing the one from CJP at the top of the tank used as a return from the EFI pump. Before installing at the top I removed the electrical stuff, float and sealed the connector with gas tank sealer to avoid possible fume leakage.

 Moisture issue, that is why I used solid rubber, not neoprene or tar paper, or......

As for the sending unit, if you or anyone else knows what is happening, I would be all ears. Electrical stuff and me don't get along too well. From the listing for the Dorman sending unit RockAuto will be replacing the Spectra one with, it list 75 ohms empty and 10 ohms full, I get 75 ohms empty, but it goes to an open circuit (beeps) before it reaches full. It worked okay before it was removed, so what is the issue or is there one? I'm going to install it for now anyway because I need it there regardless until I get the replacement and that could be weeks.

 

[tony-muscle]

I debated with the same issue of the insulation when I took my tank down. I don't think my tank is original, but not sure. It had two pads that look very OEM in between the tank and floor. There was no rust in either side so I ended up reusing them. I did a lot of research about it and the key is to use a material that is not hygroscopic (a material that doesn't absorb water). If the material doesn't absorb water you shouldn't have an issue with moisture retention. I was close to using some of the carpet underlayment I had laying around. I had the one I bought from CJPony for the trunk. It is cheap and you can cut it to fit. I ended up not using and keeping the pad that was there. In hindsight I should have replaced it. As far as I understand the underlayment does not absorb water.

With regards to the sending unit I ended up using one I bought from Dan of Ohio. I first bought one from CJP to which I adapted a second return tube. However, this one leaked through the electrical connector. I ended up installing the one from CJP at the top of the tank used as a return from the EFI pump. Before installing at the top I removed the electrical stuff, float and sealed the connector with gas tank sealer to avoid possible fume leakage.

 Moisture issue, that is why I used solid rubber, not neoprene or tar paper, or......

As for the sending unit, if you or anyone else knows what is happening, I would be all ears. Electrical stuff and me don't get along too well. From the listing for the Dorman sending unit RockAuto will be replacing the Spectra one with, it list 75 ohms empty and 10 ohms full, I get 75 ohms empty, but it goes to an open circuit (beeps) before it reaches full. It worked okay before it was removed, so what is the issue or is there one? I'm going to install it for now anyway because I need it there regardless until I get the replacement and that could be weeks.

This is what the shop manual says:

... Using an ohmmeter, connect one lead to the

metal housing of the sending unit and

the other lead to the variable resistor

terminal of the sending unit. 

The ohmmeter should read 8-12 ohms of

resistance with the fuel sending unit

float rod at the full end (up) of its

travel and 60-86 ohms of resistance at

the empty end (down). If the

resistance is not within limits, replace

the sending unit.

 

[Don C]

Does it show 10 ohms before it goes open? If so, my guess is that it's not an issue. The float probably travels further than the resistor does and the wiper goes past the end of the resistor.

 

[Stanglover]

Does it show 10 ohms before it goes open? If so, my guess is that it's not an issue. The float probably travels further than the resistor does and the wiper goes past the end of the resistor.

 That could be Don. I'll recheck it. It looked like it was at about 20 ohms before going open. As I said, it worked before although the gauge never quite reached full, but that could be the gauge, not the sender.

Thanks again for your help and insight.

Geoff.

 

[Don C]

If it just goes to 20 ohms that would be the reason gauge doesn't read full. At least that's better than showing 1/4 of a tank when it runs out.

 

[Stanglover]

If it just goes to 20 ohms that would be the reason gauge doesn't read full. At least that's better than showing 1/4 of a tank when it runs out.

 True. Lets face it, it's only the bottom quarter that matters like I said before.

 I whimped out of doing anything today, just didn't feel like crawling around under it. Just one of those days, but it may be Monday before I can get back at it. Weather's crap anyway.

 

[Stanglover]

Okay, it's in and done. I think I'll be a bit more thoughtful before I tackle another job like that. If only repop companies would (or could) make parts that actually fit the first time, life would be soooo much easier. Like I said before, the 3/8 SS line I bought from NPD headed from front to back, but that was about all I can say for it. The front end tubes weren't too bad, just minor tweaking, but the backend, I had to practically reshape it completely. Lots of cursing, getting up and down on an arthritic hip, you name it. What I should have done was install the tank first to get a better idea of how I needed to reshape the fuel line at the tank connection. To be fair, these tubes are not wrapped and protected, so it is possible that it was bent or twisted somehow in storage, who knows!! 

As I mentioned, the trunk under floor was amazing, so all I did was to clean it up and use some Slop Grey paint on the rails and other non important areas, Then I used a coat of Fluid Film a wax rust preventer over the original Ford Slop Grey, so no worries going forward.

I put in 5 US gallons, 19 liters of gas and with the car sitting level, it showed only 1/8th tank, should have been 1/4. So I jacked the car up as high as possible on the left side, took the sending unit out and reshaped the arm a tad, bending it downward so the float will read a lower resistance or 1/4 tank. It is right on now so Ill leave it in for now until the replacement come from RockAuto. Even then it may just stay there if it is accurate .

Pictures are; the fuel line in place, the tank with rubber pads attached and in place.

 

[Stanglover]

If it just goes to 20 ohms that would be the reason gauge doesn't read full. At least that's better than showing 1/4 of a tank when it runs out.

 Don, I just filled the tank to full. The gauge reads just below the full mark and pretty much where it always was, but with 5 US gallons, in an empty tank, I set it to read 1/4 tank and that's more important obviously. So it looks like you're right. at 20 ohms, it doesn't quite get to the full mark. Oh well, how sad, too bad!

BTW, that tank full cost me approx. $80 US or $112 Canadian. Bet you wish you live here Eh!!

 

[tony-muscle]

I like the small spacers you used on top of the tank. In my case I kept the stock line from the tank to the pump, but replaced the line from the pump to the carb. Actually, it is now the line from the pump to the electric pump of the EFI system. My new fuel lines in the engine bay are 3/8" Russell Pro Classics. They are expensive when you add the fittings, but it looks nice!

 

[Stanglover]

I like the small spacers you used on top of the tank. In my case I kept the stock line from the tank to the pump, but replaced the line from the pump to the carb. Actually, it is now the line from the pump to the electric pump of the EFI system. My new fuel lines in the engine bay are 3/8" Russell Pro Classics. They are expensive when you add the fittings, but it looks nice!

 Yes, thanks. I decided solid rubber was a good bet even though there was not much sign of actual rubbing on the trunk floor. There was signs on the tank though, which is kind of weird, This was before the post regarding the Ford pads on the tank top surface. It was already done so why change it.

I can't afford the EFI route unfortunately, so what I got is what I got. No doubt you have seen the pump to carb 3/8" line I fab'd up in a previous post, but that is to a solid supply line to the Holley carb.

It is all working out quite well now so I hope long term it will be worth the expense, hassle, swearing, and pain to do it. At least now I can go run Petro-Can 94 octane fuel with f'n ethanol!!

Thanks to all for your positive comments and support,

Geoff.

 

[Stanglover]

One last post on this from my side. I now know the reason I decided to spend the big bucks and buy stainless steel fuel lines. I was just cleaning up after this "project" and as I started to bend up the old line for the garbage and as the first picture shows, the line just folded and broke. It is not very clear, but there was considerable rust at that point. The second picture, a bit out of focus I'm afraid shows how much rust there actually is in the line. Fuel lines as well as exhaust pipes, rust from the inside out, not the other way around usually.

 

[Stanglover]

Well, I said the last post was the last post, but when I opened up a section of the old fuel line just now and saw how much RUST was actually in the line, I had to update with a couple of pictures for you out there who are thinking your original lines will be fine. I think not, but that's your decision. I could have cut anywhere along the line and the results would be the same or worse. I am more than happy now that I spent the 100 bucks on SS lines even though they needed a lot of finessing to get a proper fit.

Geoff.