How to delete the rag joint on manual steering

[Otto]

I wanted to improve the responsiveness of my steering so after some research and experimentation, I found an easy way to do it. All that is needed is the Borgeson steering shaft ( part #460018) and steering coupler (part #313449). The only modifications to the parts was to cut the steering shaft so that the smaller section is 2 inches long. I installed the coupler onto the shaft, and the whole assembly onto the steering column. I ensured steering linkage, steering box and steering column was centered and mated the steering column to the steering box. The steering shaft slides on the steering column so I positioned it where the alignment/retention screw was centered on the steering box input shaft slot and tightened everything.

If someone wanted to make the same modification on a power steering car, it's just a matter of getting the correct coupler. I used to have power steering, until my China pressure hose blew out at the crimp. Thankfully I had just started my car and the headers weren't too hot and it didn't happen on the track or freeway. I said never again and I'm pretty happy with my manual setup. I wouldn't mind a quick ratio box but they don't make those for our cars yet.

 

[Stanglover]

Well your car your choice, but why dump PS to go back to manual. Manual does give better road feel, but just because a pressure hose blows, it's not the fault of the system, just a bad hose.
I had this happen to me last April I think it was. It was a so called "concours" hose that had been on the car for 10 years and it too, blew out of the fitting. Yes it was a friggin mess and I had to have the car flatbed trucked home. A clean up and a new hose with radial crimped fittings and good to go. Personally, I'd NEVER go back to manual steering. that's what I switched from 10+ years ago.
But as said, your car your choice. However your idea for getting rid of the rag joint might be worth consideration and worth looking into.

 

[Otto]

For me, it's about the road feel and simplicity. One less thing to go wrong and it freed up quite a bit of space in the engine compartment. I track my '72 and there were more reasons to go manual than not when taking that into consideration. The main one being I was imagining the hose blowing out at 130 mph.

 

[c9zx]

Hey Otto, do you have any pictures or video of toy car on track? Chuck

 

[Otto]

Excuse the quality. My buddy filmed my fly by and his IPhone doesn't like my Droid.

 

[Otto]

I looked for a solid coupler that would work on a power steering system to save everyone the effort, but found nothing. It looks like spline size (13/16 31 spline) is very uncommon. Unless someone knows a competent machinist, it might not be a possible to upgrade a PS system.

 

[Stanglover]

For me, it's about the road feel and simplicity. One less thing to go wrong and it freed up quite a bit of space in the engine compartment. I track my '72 and there were more reasons to go manual than not when taking that into consideration. The main one being I was imagining the hose blowing out at 130 mph.

I would agree with that explanation.
I guess you're not to worried about reverse parking then!
It's hard enough to back up and park a fastback WITH power steering, let alone manual.

 

[rcadd1ct]

I would call the guy from open tracker racing

He sells the lower column bearing and a roller pitman arm

He might know about a coupler.

 

[tony-muscle]

I looked for a solid coupler that would work on a power steering system to save everyone the effort, but found nothing. It looks like spline size (13/16 31 spline) is very uncommon. Unless someone knows a competent machinist, it might not be a possible to upgrade a PS system.

Thank you. That was my interest in this thread if there was a way to eliminate the rag joint in a power steering. Not high in my list of things to modify but this would be helpful for AutoX where you want the fastest steering response possible.

 

[Otto]

I wanted to give an update after deleting the rag joint. I have driven my car for a couple of days and I have to say I'm very happy with the results. At higher speeds and larger radius turns, it's pretty much the same as the rag joint, which is a positive because it handled excellent in these conditions before. In hard tight turns it comes alive now. Before it would understeer on tight turns, especially when accelerating on the exit. Now it rotates nicely, feels in control and is more precise through the whole turn. So far, I highly recommend it.

 

[Stanglover]

I wanted to give an update after deleting the rag joint. I have driven my car for a couple of days and I have to say I'm very happy with the results. At higher speeds and larger radius turns, it's pretty much the same as the rag joint, which is a positive because it handled excellent in these conditions before. In hard tight turns it comes alive now. Before it would understeer on tight turns, especially when accelerating on the exit. Now it rotates nicely, feels in control and is more precise through the whole turn. So far, I highly recommend it.

Not that I'll go back to manual steering (I still have the original MS box) but did you take any pics of the parts and process?

 

[Otto]

I didn't, only because it was so simple. You are just replacing the lower steering shaft, attaching the coupler and adjusting the toe. The difficult and expensive part was trying different parts and kits to find what worked. I saved everyone the trouble.

 

[tony-muscle]

I looked for a solid coupler that would work on a power steering system to save everyone the effort, but found nothing. It looks like spline size (13/16 31 spline) is very uncommon. Unless someone knows a competent machinist, it might not be a possible to upgrade a PS system.

I haven't given it too much though until I this post. I have power steering and I will keep it, but ditching the rag joint for a solid connection will have the benefit of better responsiveness, which should be helpful for AutoX. Looking at the rag joint today, one could disassemble the joint and replace the rubber disc with a metal disc; or replace the pins with a threaded pin and then screw it directly into the steering shaft.
Are there other issues I need to be aware of from eliminating the rag joint, like too much vibration coming through the steering?
PS: thinking more about it, misalignment is probably the biggest concern.

 

[Otto]

No issues at all. I'm using a solid coupler and it lined up just fine. Our steering columns don't use a bearing at the bottom so the lower shafts just floats in place, which eliminates the need for absolutely perfect alignment with the box. Because I used a solid coupler, it aligned itself. If you were to go with a u- joint, you would definitely need a lower bearing, but the issue with a u- joint I found is that they don't make any short enough to fit between the steering column and box. The coupler was only 2 inches, which turns out is perfect for our cars. As far as vibrations, there were none at all but the manual box is slow ratio so I think small movements don't get past the box. I did take my car up to speeds you normally don't drive at and didn't feel any vibrations. The most significant difference was MUCH better handling and control in tight, slower corners, especially as you accelerate out of these turns, which is exactly what you could use.

Like you, I also considered replacing the rubber coupler with a solid metal one but I was fortunate that the splines on the manual box are common. As far as I've seen, the only thing available for the 13/16 by 31 spline are rag joints. Honestly, for what you want it for, it might be worth it to go to a machinist and have a solid coupler made. I would maybe even buy the one I used and take to to them as an example. The only difference in the two would be the spline size.

 

[tony-muscle]

No issues at all. I'm using a solid coupler and it lined up just fine. Our steering columns don't use a bearing at the bottom so the lower shafts just floats in place, which eliminates the need for absolutely perfect alignment with the box. Because I used a solid coupler, it aligned itself. If you were to go with a u- joint, you would definitely need a lower bearing, but the issue with a u- joint I found is that they don't make any short enough to fit between the steering column and box. The coupler was only 2 inches, which turns out is perfect for our cars. As far as vibrations, there were none at all but the manual box is slow ratio so I think small movements don't get past the box. I did take my car up to speeds you normally don't drive at and didn't feel any vibrations. The most significant difference was MUCH better handling and control in tight, slower corners, especially as you accelerate out of these turns, which is exactly what you could use.

Like you, I also considered replacing the rubber coupler with a solid metal one but I was fortunate that the splines on the manual box are common. As far as I've seen, the only thing available for the 13/16 by 31 spline are rag joints. Honestly, for what you want it for, it might be worth it to go to a machinist and have a solid coupler made. I would maybe even buy the one I used and take to to them as an example. The only difference in the two would be the spline size.

Excellent point. Even better, but I didn't think about it before. I have a tilt column so the steering shaft already has a u-joint inside the column.