I think I have something going on with the differential

[tony-muscle]

Our Mustang housing bearings are the "Small" diameter. The Torino's and up used the larger/stronger diameter bearing. After market 31 spline axles use a hybrid bearing that helps a bit (looks like you have the hybrid bearings). I've been through your bearing delema a few times. Good to see no serious damage done!

Why are they breaking? Can you tell me more about it?

 

[Bentworker]

Can you please explain about the end play?

I had my 9” housing and brake caliper mounts powder coated. Brakes are the SN95 Cobra style on Mustang Steve adaptors. Where I had the powdercoaters mask got me into trouble as the powder coating was thick enough to give the bearing outer race room to slide back and forth inside the housing ends and I cornered left and right. Once you get the new bearings on try assembling everything and using a dial indicator to see how much you can slide one axle in and out. I can’t find the spec right now, but I will keep looking.

 

[Cleveland Crush]

Why are they breaking? Can you tell me more about it?

Mustang "small" style bearing housing ends are engineered for street driving with factory stock horsepower levels. Now we are adding LOTS more power and additionally, hard track driving to boot. Despite our Ford 9 inchers being excellent, the housings are quite "flexible" under hard use such as drag strip and road course use. There are multitudes of ways this has been addressed such as: Upgraded housing ends; triangulated weld in center braces and of course the ultimate fix: A super duty aftermarket housing unit that accepts your current internals.
With high power levels and playing hard with a care the game of " Let's Find the Weakest Link" begins!

 

[Cleveland Crush]

Tony, could you provide a couple good photos of your housing grease seals now that your axles are pulled. I'm curious to see how the axle bearing retainer ring was mating with it.

 

[tony-muscle]

Tony, could you provide a couple good photos of your housing grease seals now that your axles are pulled. I'm curious to see how the axle bearing retainer ring was mating with it.

I didnt have a traditional seal. The bearings have an oring to seal. Are you talking about the retainer to bearing contact?

 

[tony-muscle]

I had my 9” housing and brake caliper mounts powder coated. Brakes are the SN95 Cobra style on Mustang Steve adaptors. Where I had the powdercoaters mask got me into trouble as the powder coating was thick enough to give the bearing outer race room to slide back and forth inside the housing ends and I cornered left and right. Once you get the new bearings on try assembling everything and using a dial indicator to see how much you can slide one axle in and out. I can’t find the spec right now, but I will keep looking.

I had to add shims to eliminate backlash. I dont remember seeing a spec but let me know what you find. I will check the manual as well.

 

[Cleveland Crush]

I didnt have a traditional seal. The bearings have an oring to seal. Are you talking about the retainer to bearing contact?

OK, you do not run the factory oil seal with your o ringed bearings as I do. Point was if the factory oil seal is not fully seated the bearing retaining ring will rub the grease seal causing lots if bearing trouble as the attachedCurrie video states. I now always use grease seals with my sealed o-ringed bearings for additional protection because if gear fluid manages to penetrate the sealed bearing they won't last long. The non-sealed bearings of course need gear oil but not the sealed version. Just my experience with this issue.

 

[tony-muscle]

I had my 9” housing and brake caliper mounts powder coated. Brakes are the SN95 Cobra style on Mustang Steve adaptors. Where I had the powdercoaters mask got me into trouble as the powder coating was thick enough to give the bearing outer race room to slide back and forth inside the housing ends and I cornered left and right. Once you get the new bearings on try assembling everything and using a dial indicator to see how much you can slide one axle in and out. I can’t find the spec right now, but I will keep looking.

I imagine the spec should be 0.001 or 0.002 to allow for expansion when hot. You don't want much or any slack on the bearing. I think I shimmed it until I had no slack on cold. Let me know if anyone finds a spec for this.

 

[tony-muscle]

OK, you do not run the factory oil seal with your o ringed bearings as I do. Point was if the factory oil seal is not fully seated the bearing retaining ring will rub the grease seal causing lots if bearing trouble as the attachedCurrie video states. I now always use grease seals with my sealed o-ringed bearings for additional protection because if gear fluid manages to penetrate the sealed bearing they won't last long. The non-sealed bearings of course need gear oil but not the sealed version. Just my experience with this issue.

So it seems you have already gone through a few of these bearings. Can I ask how much have they lasted? Have you found some to be better than others?

 

[tony-muscle]

I just talked to Strange and basically confirmed what @Cleveland Crush stated. They don't make tapered bearings for the small bearing housings so I am out of luck unless I rework the housing ends or get a new housing, which is an expense that I was not planning to undertake. In any case, I will get new ones and keep a close eye on them from now on. I will make a point to remove the axles at the end of the season to check them or just proactively replace them once a year.

 

[Cleveland Crush]

So it seems you have already gone through a few of these bearings. Can I ask how much have they lasted? Have you found some to be better than others?

I'm currently running "Green mfg.co." bearings. They are marketed by Mosher Engineering (and I'm sure others also) the Mosher part # is 9507T they are made in Cleveland, OH
How long they last depends...I pull the axles every other season specifically to check the wheel bearings and axle splines. I just inspected everything last month and happy to say the bearings were still 100% good after five seasons (90% street 10% strip at high 10 seconds) about 1000 miles per year. Running 710hp and Detriot Locker. This is the longest the axle bearings have lasted for this setup so I'm very pleased with Green Bearings. Good luck with yours Tony.
Chris

 

[mrgmhale]

Dang, Tony. It is a shame we live so far from each other. Otherwise I would be offering to come over, or have you come out to our place, so I could hook up my Chassis Ear equipment and find out precisely what is causing the noise, It is easy to do, and the equipment is not that costly,. The equipment is available in two flavors, wired or wireless. Of the wireless version there is a Bluetooth and a UHF subversion. I have not heard much about the bluetooth wireless system, but the UHF version not only gets rave reviews, but I have personally used it to verify a bad wheel bearing, and have even used it to perform diagnostic work on my old pony cars.

Their wired version is fairly inexpensive. Their wireless system is a bit more, but you won't have a lot of long wires to secure under the car so you can go out for a test/diagnostic drive while listening to the various clamp-on "microphones" while you are going down the road.

Here is the web site where you can order your kit from the manufacturer.

https://steelmantools.com/collections/noise-vibration

For the record, I have used both the wired and the wireless units. They both work extremely well. But with the wireless unit I do not have to deal with nearly 20 feet of wire being held in place using Zip Ties and/or Velcro straps. With the wireless system there are clamp-on microphones also, with cabling. But, the cabling is just long wnough to connect to a radio signal transmitter that gets mounted near the clap-on microphone. I recently diagnosed a set of failing wheel bearings for a lady who was told she needed new wheel bearings. She did not hear any noise from her front end, nor did a mechanic she brought the car to for the purpose of verifying the problem. The other day I hooked up only two wireless transmitters with their respective clamp-on microphones. Wow, the Chassis Ear made it very clear that she definitely had a problem, despite it was not loud enough to be noticed in person.

Anyway, I got our Chassis Ear kits on a lark, thinking I could likely use them someday. After seeing how easy the equipment is to set up and use I can assure you I am going to be using the bee-geebies out of it. I have both the wired system (Part #: 06606), and the wireless (Part #: 61082) system. Highly recommended. In your case I would attach one clamp to the rear axle housing where the pinion shaft is located. I would put another on the rear axle housing, and the other two I would connect to the axle housing near rear axle bearing. If none of those locations are creating the sound I would attach one of the clampon microphones to the tranny tailshaft housing and see it that bushing has worn.

I should clarify what I mean by a clamp-on microphone. The sound sensors and not anything like a conventional microphone. They are heavy duty spring loaded electrical (like car battery charger) clamps that are equipped with a vibration/sound sensing Piezo Chip. Then a wire runs either to the wired kits control box where you can select up to 6 such microphones. For the wireless unit there is a short wire connection the "microphone" to a wireless transmitter, and finally a wireless receiver gets the waveform file(s) needed and then the diagnostic process is done - and quickly.

If you are interested in how well the Chassis Ear works I have taken recording of the wheel bearing on my friend's Toyota, then put a sample of the vibrations captured by Chassis Ear in comparison to another vehicle with one good wheel bearing set, and the second car that just began to make funny noises, to make noise. The audio file has four parts., The first is a Toyota with a wheel bearing that is just beginning to make noise, The 2nd part plays the loud sounds of her driver side wheel bearing set. The 3rd part is the good bearing on the Toyota. The 4th part is another (passenger side_ wheel bearing that is obviously dry and in the early staged of failure. Bear in mind, with the sounds I captured none of them was detectable without this equipment.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rHkQ7p86pZroNYAmTnyJVGB2LjCHBAIw/view?usp=drive_link

I bet once you use this solution you will be singing its praises.

 

[Tnfastbk]

Here you go, just check all your needed boxes and it arrives in the mail................LOL

https://www.moserengineering.com/9-Ford-Auto-Cross-Edition-Full-Float-Rear-End-Package.item

 

[giantpune]

happy to say the bearings were still 100% good after five seasons (90% street 10% strip at high 10 seconds) about 1000 miles per year.

I think its two different animals. Going fast in a straight line on the drag strip vs going relatively slow, with lots of side load and braking in autocross.

 

[Cleveland Crush]

I think its two different animals. Going fast in a straight line on the drag strip vs going relatively slow, with lots of side load and braking in autocross.

Point being they both take a toll on the small Mustang wheel bearings through lateral loading or twisting/vertical loading.

 

[tony-muscle]

Dang, Tony. It is a shame we live so far from each other. Otherwise I would be offering to come over, or have you come out to our place, so I could hook up my Chassis Ear equipment and find out precisely what is causing the noise, It is easy to do, and the equipment is not that costly,. The equipment is available in two flavors, wired or wireless. Of the wireless version there is a Bluetooth and a UHF subversion. I have not heard much about the bluetooth wireless system, but the UHF version not only gets rave reviews, but I have personally used it to verify a bad wheel bearing, and have even used it to perform diagnostic work on my old pony cars.

Their wired version is fairly inexpensive. Their wireless system is a bit more, but you won't have a lot of long wires to secure under the car so you can go out for a test/diagnostic drive while listening to the various clamp-on "microphones" while you are going down the road.

Here is the web site where you can order your kit from the manufacturer.

https://steelmantools.com/collections/noise-vibration

For the record, I have used both the wired and the wireless units. They both work extremely well. But with the wireless unit I do not have to deal with nearly 20 feet of wire being held in place using Zip Ties and/or Velcro straps. With the wireless system there are clamp-on microphones also, with cabling. But, the cabling is just long wnough to connect to a radio signal transmitter that gets mounted near the clap-on microphone. I recently diagnosed a set of failing wheel bearings for a lady who was told she needed new wheel bearings. She did not hear any noise from her front end, nor did a mechanic she brought the car to for the purpose of verifying the problem. The other day I hooked up only two wireless transmitters with their respective clamp-on microphones. Wow, the Chassis Ear made it very clear that she definitely had a problem, despite it was not loud enough to be noticed in person.

Anyway, I got our Chassis Ear kits on a lark, thinking I could likely use them someday. After seeing how easy the equipment is to set up and use I can assure you I am going to be using the bee-geebies out of it. I have both the wired system (Part #: 06606), and the wireless (Part #: 61082) system. Highly recommended. In your case I would attach one clamp to the rear axle housing where the pinion shaft is located. I would put another on the rear axle housing, and the other two I would connect to the axle housing near rear axle bearing. If none of those locations are creating the sound I would attach one of the clampon microphones to the tranny tailshaft housing and see it that bushing has worn.

I should clarify what I mean by a clamp-on microphone. The sound sensors and not anything like a conventional microphone. They are heavy duty spring loaded electrical (like car battery charger) clamps that are equipped with a vibration/sound sensing Piezo Chip. Then a wire runs either to the wired kits control box where you can select up to 6 such microphones. For the wireless unit there is a short wire connection the "microphone" to a wireless transmitter, and finally a wireless receiver gets the waveform file(s) needed and then the diagnostic process is done - and quickly.

If you are interested in how well the Chassis Ear works I have taken recording of the wheel bearing on my friend's Toyota, then put a sample of the vibrations captured by Chassis Ear in comparison to another vehicle with one good wheel bearing set, and the second car that just began to make funny noises, to make noise. The audio file has four parts., The first is a Toyota with a wheel bearing that is just beginning to make noise, The 2nd part plays the loud sounds of her driver side wheel bearing set. The 3rd part is the good bearing on the Toyota. The 4th part is another (passenger side_ wheel bearing that is obviously dry and in the early staged of failure. Bear in mind, with the sounds I captured none of them was detectable without this equipment.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rHkQ7p86pZroNYAmTnyJVGB2LjCHBAIw/view?usp=drive_link

I bet once you use this solution you will be singing its praises.

Good idea for future

 

[tony-muscle]

Here you go, just check all your needed boxes and it arrives in the mail................LOL

https://www.moserengineering.com/9-Ford-Auto-Cross-Edition-Full-Float-Rear-End-Package.item

Yes. And you get what you pay for. I still can use my center section and axles with a Big Bearings housing so that will save me some. I will need new brakes through.

 

[Tnfastbk]

Yes. And you get what you pay for. I still can use my center section and axles with a Big Bearings housing so that will save me some. I will need new brakes through.

What's the old saying? "How fast do you want to go? Well how much money do you have?" LOL unfortunately seems to be a true statement. Mine is still down from the last time we went on the power tour. Bad thing is I have all the parts to put it back together and still have not.

 

[tony-muscle]

What's the old saying? "How fast do you want to go? Well how much money do you have?" LOL unfortunately seems to be a true statement. Mine is still down from the last time we went on the power tour. Bad thing is I have all the parts to put it back together and still have not.

Absolutely... I know that speed means money, unfortunately. I have tried not to skim in anything related to safety so this will be my next big expense over the winter. The good thing is that a housing without axles and center section is much less. I may end up going with Strange since I have already gotten my axles and center section from them.
I hope you can get your car back rolling soon. It has been more than a year so should be running out of excuses

 

[tony-muscle]

And let the snowball roll! I posted a related question in the Vintage Mustang Forum (https://www.vintage-mustang.com/thr...-bearings-for-autocross-or-track-use.1214543/) and the consensus seems to be going with a full floating axle similar to what @Tnfastbk posted. The thought is that the Big Bearing Torino housing is better but it will still give problems with the retainer moving on the long run so it might as well spend more for the ultimate choice which is the full floating version. So here I am now from budgeting a couple hundred for new bearings to a couple Ks for a full floater. I am supposed to get a half year bonus soon so that should take care of the down payment