It's baaaaccckkkkk!

[6972boss]

Hey Pat. That is a wild story! Can you provide more info? I've never heard of anything like that. Did the state police cut the shock towers or did they make him do it? Did the police see different VIN numbers or had the originals been swapped? Do you think it makes a difference what state you are in as to how the DMV handles such problems? Thanks. Kevin.

I couldn’t take it anymore. This is ridiculous. This bozo is flat out lying about this car, has his buddies bidding it up for him, no sale then realists and starts the process all over again. I reported it to eBay for several reasons. Let’s see if eBay will do anything. Probably won’t because that means someone will have to do their job, God forbid.

 

[ib4stangs]

Hey Pat. That is a wild story! Can you provide more info? I've never heard of anything like that. Did the state police cut the shock towers or did they make him do it? Did the police see different VIN numbers or had the originals been swapped? Do you think it makes a difference what state you are in as to how the DMV handles such problems? Thanks. Kevin.

I'm sure you've found titling is very easy in some, very tough in others, so there are big titling differences between states...
The NY State Police wanted them into their possession and didn't play around. He is actually a member here and posted this a few years ago...

"Anyway, they accused me of tampering with the numbers on the car. I could have lost the car and had to hire an attorney to try to get it back (Cha Ching!) or cut the front off and surrender it. I did the math. My choice is obvious."

The fact remains this green "J" code is Kryptonite and a someone is going to get screwed out of allot of money when the truth finally hits the fan...

 

[cwalker509]

I'm sure you've found titling is very easy in some, very tough in others, so there are big titling differences between states...
The NY State Police wanted them into their possession and didn't play around. He is actually a member here and posted this a few years ago...

"Anyway, they accused me of tampering with the numbers on the car. I could have lost the car and had to hire an attorney to try to get it back (Cha Ching!) or cut the front off and surrender it. I did the math. My choice is obvious."

The fact remains this green "J" code is Kryptonite and a someone is going to get screwed out of allot of money when the truth finally hits the fan...

So what would the NY state police say if he had installed new dynacorn apron assemblies that do not have VINs? Or what if he had installed the dynacorn assemblies but welded in his original VINs? The auto safety inspector, a mechanic at your local auto repair shop that is an inspection station, verifies the VIN on the car here in Missouri. That means the dash and maybe the warranty tag on the door. They don't pull fenders. My Mexican car did have to be inspected by the highway patrol inspectors since the VIN is not located per US standards and the local mechanic refused to verify the VIN.

 

[ib4stangs]

Beats me, that's a gray area I live in MD... but I'll bet that the potential lawsuit costs (if the swap was not disclosed) would outweigh any profit on the sale. The original vin was in dispute and now probably in a database.
I'd bite the bullet and part it out because I won't clip a car or swap a vin...

 

[72MustangSprint]

The problem the next buyer faces is that he will stuck owning a rebody with 2 vin #'s. Current "J" code on dash and the 2 original stamps on shock towers (unless they were destroyed or swapped out which is illegal).
There are panel build date stamping codes and original paint left somewhere on that body...

I have a friend with a Mustang title/vin problem and the state police made him give up the shock towers and vins after an almost complete restoration...


View attachment 83392

That’s why I said to make it a drag so VIN Is not a problem

 

[kevken1959]

I hate to say it, but my opinion of this guy's situation is starting to soften a little bit. I don't think he had a clue what he was buying at Mecum. In all fairness, as long as he doesn't remove the fenders, he should still be able to claim plausible deniability regarding the numbers. He didn't change them, and despite what we have all said regarding the problems with the car, it's his right to play stupid. He's a dealer, and he's trying to get rid of the car. I'm conflicted because every time he "sells" it, he seems to get way more money than I think the car is worth. But if it's a "no reserve" auction, how can he be at fault if (and it's a big "if") the bids are real? And he did stick the phrase "this is not being sold as a matching numbers car" in the ad, so I would think with a good lawyer that might clear him in any legal action. The biggest reason I stepped into this conundrum was that I didn't want anyone on this site to get suckered into buying it. It's also kind of satisfying to identify things that are wrong with the car, sort of like solving a murder mystery. Lastly, I do think the guy goes somewhat overboard describing the car, but isn't that what dealers do? Maybe I'm wrong and I'll change my mind tomorrow after others chime in, but that's just the way I feel tonight.

 

[72MustangSprint]

I hate to say it, but my opinion of this guy's situation is starting to soften a little bit. I don't think he had a clue what he was buying at Mecum. In all fairness, as long as he doesn't remove the fenders, he should still be able to claim plausible deniability regarding the numbers. He didn't change them, and despite what we have all said regarding the problems with the car, it's his right to play stupid. He's a dealer, and he's trying to get rid of the car. I'm conflicted because every time he "sells" it, he seems to get way more money than I think the car is worth. But if it's a "no reserve" auction, how can he be at fault if (and it's a big "if") the bids are real? And he did stick the phrase "this is not being sold as a matching numbers car" in the ad, so I would think with a good lawyer that might clear him in any legal action. The biggest reason I stepped into this conundrum was that I didn't want anyone on this site to get suckered into buying it. It's also kind of satisfying to identify things that are wrong with the car, sort of like solving a murder mystery. Lastly, I do think the guy goes somewhat overboard describing the car, but isn't that what dealers do? Maybe I'm wrong and I'll change my mind tomorrow after others chime in, but that's just the way I feel tonight.

My thoughts haven’t changed , it’s a expensive junk VIN car that would only be good as a museum piece or nice drag car. The car is now internet famous as a VIN swapped POS

 

[giantpune]

My thoughts haven’t changed , it’s a expensive junk VIN car that would only be good as a museum piece or nice drag car. The car is now internet famous as a VIN swapped POS

I'm with this guy.

The seller has had plenty of communication with people now about what sort of things are wrong with the car. There is no more plausible deniability. He knows he bought a dud. He didn't do his research. He thought he saw a great deal and jumped on it. Then got it home and once he started advertising it, people started asking him all sorts of questions like why's it got a 8" rear and why's it got a thunderbird motor and can we pull off the fender to verify the VIN.

Now he is being shady trying to offload his mistake onto somebody else, while still expecting to make a big profit. He is earning every bit of shade thats being thrown his way.

 

[ib4stangs]

Kevin, remember his last Barnfinds post to you?

Patsrarerides
Sep 3, 2023 at 9:40pm
With all due respect- you are a jokester. Please educate yourself. I will take the “10 seconds” for serious buyers. Not you clown.

 

[72MustangSprint]

That guy must have huge balls or a small ***** , I mean brain. Kevin has more 71-3 knowledge then almost anyone except Hemi and the guy on here that worked in the parts department at a dealership (secuff ). What a *** clown

 

[kevken1959]

Kevin, remember his last Barnfinds post to you?

Patsrarerides
Sep 3, 2023 at 9:40pm
With all due respect- you are a jokester. Please educate yourself. I will take the “10 seconds” for serious buyers. Not you clown.

Actually Pat, I had forgotten about his comments to me. Thanks for reminding me. I change my mind back. He is a jerk and I have no sympathy for his situation and I hope he burns in the dumpster fire with that car, lol.

 

[detritusmaximus]

I hate to say it, but my opinion of this guy's situation is starting to soften a little bit. I don't think he had a clue what he was buying at Mecum. In all fairness, as long as he doesn't remove the fenders, he should still be able to claim plausible deniability regarding the numbers. He didn't change them, and despite what we have all said regarding the problems with the car, it's his right to play stupid. He's a dealer, and he's trying to get rid of the car. I'm conflicted because every time he "sells" it, he seems to get way more money than I think the car is worth. But if it's a "no reserve" auction, how can he be at fault if (and it's a big "if") the bids are real? And he did stick the phrase "this is not being sold as a matching numbers car" in the ad, so I would think with a good lawyer that might clear him in any legal action. The biggest reason I stepped into this conundrum was that I didn't want anyone on this site to get suckered into buying it. It's also kind of satisfying to identify things that are wrong with the car, sort of like solving a murder mystery. Lastly, I do think the guy goes somewhat overboard describing the car, but isn't that what dealers do? Maybe I'm wrong and I'll change my mind tomorrow after others chime in, but that's just the way I feel tonight.

About his 'plausible deniability'...if someone where to buy it and find out there are various VINs and they decide to take him to court or make a criminal fraud case out of it, how much plausible is his deniability when the description of the car as a rare 429 Mustang starts to fall apart when the car is examined? And a decent amount of internet communication alerting him to the incorrect aspects of the car. It's one thing to play stupid if the car is a convincing fake, but quite another to proclaim your expertise on the matter and then sell an unconvincing fake with incorrect parts and incorrect or mismatched VINs. At that point it is effectively doubling down on fraud AND cutting the legs out from under the 'stupid' excuse.

To be fair, I still say it could be a genuine car (with correct VINs) that was stripped of all the correct parts years ago (theft or accident, maybe? Who knows after 50 years...) and rebuilt using a donor car for the missing running gear. The fact that he has not shown an effort to confirm the VIN shows, at the very least, he is afraid of the possible answer. Once you know, you can't 'not know'.

 

[Stanglover]

It almost makes one want to buy it just to find out how "fake (or real)" it really is.
I did say "almost".

 

[giantpune]

It almost makes one want to buy it just to find out how "fake (or real)" it really is.
I did say "almost".

If it was closer to me, i'd make a burner ebay account just to win it and go take a look and gather more intel for us to laugh at in this thread.

 

[Stanglover]

If it was closer to me, i'd make a burner ebay account just to win in and go take a look and gather more intel for us to laugh at in this thread.

Isn't he supposed to be in Michigan? Can someone there go see it and settle this for us all?

 

[ib4stangs]

From the eBay listing, "Located in: New Baltimore, Michigan, United States"

 

[cjstaci]

So the question is; is it a 429 car with 72 donor parts or is it a vin number attached to a 72 car? If anyone is close, take a look, if the staggered shock mount isn’t attached then it’s not the real deal, or at least the back half isn’t. Judging from the pictures, it shouldn’t be too difficult to find the telltale signs.
If it really is a 429 car that’s missing the original parts, I don’t know what it’s worth in its present condition, but it’s definitely worth restoring. If it’s just a vin number and the body doesn’t exist, then the vin number is worthless and it’s use is only to cheat unsuspecting buyers… criminal intent.

 

[70cobrascj]

From the eBay listing, "Located in: New Baltimore, Michigan, United States"

I thought that lake familiar. Lake Saint Clair

 

[Stanglover]

I thought that lake familiar. Lake Saint Clair

Yes and it's only about 40 miles from me, except I'm not crossing the border just to find out. Besides, I don't know too much about 429's.

 

[6972boss]

So the question is; is it a 429 car with 72 donor parts or is it a vin number attached to a 72 car? If anyone is close, take a look, if the staggered shock mount isn’t attached then it’s not the real deal, or at least the back half isn’t. Judging from the pictures, it shouldn’t be too difficult to find the telltale signs.
If it really is a 429 car that’s missing the original parts, I don’t know what it’s worth in its present condition, but it’s definitely worth restoring. If it’s just a vin number and the body doesn’t exist, then the vin number is worthless and it’s use is only to cheat unsuspecting buyers… criminal intent.

This a 71 VIN on a 72 body. SEVERAL obvious issues show this is a 72 fastback. After all the discussions about it, the seller must be aware he has a horrible rebody on his hands. And hopefully any potential buyer will do some research and find out the truth before they pull the trigger.