Major Paint Problems!!! NEW PICS!!! DONE!!!!

[OMS]

It may have the instant spray on silicone based wax embedded in it, causing your problems.

Ask your friend what kind of wax was used on it

 

[turtle5353]

Thanks Greg! I will either strip it all down to bare metal and start over or sand it down 1 more time and primer the whole thing and hope the primer don't do that. Just getting tired of sanding this door!!! I probably have 25-30hrs in this stupid thing!! My buddy is gonna owe me several cases of beer for this one!

Don, the door was bought at a junk yard because his daughter had a deer run into the side of her car. So no idea what kind of wax was used by original owner.

Since the other pieces turned out so nice, that at least gives me some hope that the primer will seal it up! I will keep you guys posted. Probably wont get to it till this weekend. if I do strip it to bare metal what is the best method??? should I use a chemical stripper or just a shitload of sanding??? The inside of the door will be hard sanding to bare metal because of all the contours. Thanks again everyone!!!

 

[Qcode351mach]

Power wash the entire door inside & out with dawn. Then simple green purple..Then dawn again

After that I would have the door media blasted inside & out

seal inside interior with rust bullet.

Epoxy prime exterior.

Do body work 2 k prime paint..

I used to have a procedure for junk yard parts in my shop..I never let them in my shop TILL they were power washed inside & out multiple times..You never know what they have been exposed to

 

[MotoArts]

Not being a Debbie Downer here, but I fear that the primer under the new paint may eventually lift (delaminate), taking the paint with it.

Also, our new bumpers that we sell are all primed with waterborne. The ONLY recurring problem that we have with waterborne is when a customer preps it with solvent based prep... instead of the correct water based as instructed.

About 15 years ago I installed (wasted) about 3 or 4 ready-made graphics kits on a brand new black Lincoln Navigator. First set, I prepped the surface with my usual mineral spirits, wiped dry, then dry wiped again with a new cloth. Graphics peeled at the edges after a few days. Same thing happened again on set #2. Next set, customer tells me that the dealership used some kind of "trick teflon wax" (who knows what it really was). At this point I was up to lacquer thinner prepping this new Navigator... and not feeling very good about it. It failed too. Prior to the final set, after asking around, I wiped with the usual MS, then followed with the simple soapy water solution.

The Nav still has that same graphics set on it today.

Have done a thousand+ installs since then on boats, aircraft, Lernerville cars... never one failure.

As explained to me, the solvents only smear the (silicone/oils), they will not remove them. The soapy water "floats" the contaminates, allowing the rag to pick them up.

True or not, it has worked for me many times over.

And in your case, hell yes, like Q said, wash the everlovin' shizzle out of those things before proceeding.

 

[jorgem2]

Which gun did you finally get?

 

[turtle5353]

Thanks guys for the input. I am going to start by scrubbing the hell out of it with soap and water several times. Sand as much as I can down to bare metal. I have some epoxy primer left over from another job. Would that seal it up better than the high build primer?? I don't think my buddy has the money to be getting the door media blasted. Wish he did, it would save me a lot of time. SO scrub the hell out of it, sand it down as far as possible, epoxy prime, body work, highbuild primer, then paint?? Hopefully that will work.

My new gun is a Sharpe Finex FX2000. http://www.sharpe1.com/sharpe/sharpe.nsf/Page/Finex+FX2000

I like it a lot and it wasn't too expensive. Just over $100 on ebay. There are much more expensive guns out there but this one works great and fits my needs very well.

 

[piper62j]

Just my opinion.. I use and adhesion promoter when I'm not sure of the surface. I've sprayed a lot of plastic parts prior to painting because the manufacturers use a mold release agent on them. Older paint surfaces that are clean and acceptable have multiple layers of silicone based wax which when sanded, only imbeds the molecules deeper into the surface.

Thoroughly wash the surface prior to painting, wet sand to prep, apply adhesion promoter, prime and paint. Urethane paint is very finicky about the surface it's sprayed on, but once cured, is extremely tough.

Hope this helps..

 

[Austin Vert]

Just wanted to speak up and clarify a few things based on follow up comments.

Firstly, Kevin didn't really tell us what was going on with the inside of this panel. For example, are there any coatings that have been sprayed or coated from the factory or the owner, such as any wax coatings, rust prevention coatings like Fish oil, Tectyl 506, etc. If there are these types of coatings present, they will contribute to causing contam probs. Using detergents and power water washers on the inside panel to remove these types of coatings is pointless, as detergents won't break down and rid the greasy, waxy coatings properly. Power washing contaminated greasy, waxy coatings on the insides of panels will also contribute to more contamination moving and migrating to the outside of the panel. If no such coatings are present,or were ever used, then by all means, power wash away to help clean the inside panel.

Secondly, MotoArts said .........As explained to me, the solvents only smear the (silicone/oils), they will not remove them. I can't speak from any experience in regards the application, and adhesion of graphics on automotive paint surfaces, but i do know how wax and grease removers remove wax, oils, silicones and grease from all substrates prior to the application of the auto paints. If the procedures are carried out properly, all contamination will be removed. If any trace contaminant residues were left on the surface prior to painting, you would be guaranteed to get ongoing reaction problems that would never go away. Quality wax and grease removers WORK, with the exception of pre contaminated panels that weep out contaminants below the paint film. That condition can be very hard if not impossible to solve in certain instances. Also, yes, prepping some water based paint substrates and raw plastics with solvent based wax and grease removers is not recommended. Paint companies now provide special dedicated cleaners for these applications. I use them myself at work.

Thirdly, as i mentioned before, spraying any fresh paint over a contaminated surface is risking loss of true adhesion, and some strong waxes, silicones and sealers penetrate deep into the paint films. I have seen examples where the contamination goes into the metal and causes problems in removing the contamination as well. That's why i stated that in Kevin's case,removing all existing paint down to the bare steel is no guarantee of totally eliminating his contam problem. Looking at his situation realistically, he has already lost his money or profit margin by having to go over and re correct the failed paint applications done already. The exception is of course that this job for his friend is a non paying love job. So carefully sanding down what he's got now, carefully cleaning the surface with wax and grease remover several times with fresh wipers, then priming up the whole panel would be the most cost saving realistic way to go for him now i feel. Going back to bare metal, priming, body work, more putty/ primer, and then color and clear is a definite option that may bring the proper results, but done properly is a lot of hard work, and will take a lot of time and materials. If money plays a part here, he would be really loosing money big time on this job going down that road.The decision is entirely his on which way he wants to go. He has options here.

Greg.

 

[caspianwendell]

I can't add much to this thread other than when you sand before degreasing you are trapping contaminants in the paint that you do not remove, and wax/grease removers will NOT get rid of it alone. You have to think about this, when you sand, the friction creates heat which expands the surface material, so when it cool, and contract, it traps the contaminant. As others have said soap and warm water is the best attack, then sand SLOW, then follow Q's instructions. One thing to consider is a lot of car washes mix stuff in with the water to prevent water spots, built in wax, etc. that are designed to penetrate for long lasting results, and i'm afraid you're not going to remove those without stripping the panel once it's been sanded into the finish.

 

[Go Time]

Just keep reminding yourself that your are learning lessons here with this stinking door that may come back and help out others as well as yourself in the future. I know its a pain and I would have probably beat the crap out of it with a sledge hammer by now.When you get it done you will be all the wiser. Wisdom is more valuable than silver or gold. And there has been plenty of nuggets thrown your way here. Keep up the fight, were in your corner. Dennis

 

[turtle5353]

OK guys, got back at it a little today. First I scrubbed the hell out of it with soap and water. Sanded off the orange paint. Scrubbed with soap and water, then wax and grease remover. Then began sanding whole door down to BARE metal. Once down to bare metal I scrubbed it one more time with soap and water, followed by wax and grease remover. I was able to get it shot with epoxy primer, but that's as far as I got today before going to Thanksgiving dinner. Thanks for all the help from everyone with this. Damn door has been kicking my ass. I have learned ALOT from this whole experience. I know the next time I will scrub the panel thoroughly BEFORE sanding with both soap and water and wax and grease remover. There had to be some bad contamination on the door before I started sanding it. Once I started sanding, I believe I buried it deep into the door. After I epoxy primed it today it looks really good. Now I can fix one very small ding by the door handle, spray with high build primer, sand, then get some color on this BITCH!!! Again thanks everyone for all your help. Here are a few pics of the progress so far!!!

Orange paint sanded

Bare Metal

Epoxy Primed

 

[caspianwendell]

I know how you feel bud, i've had my share of moments like this in the past as well.

 

[Go Time]

Its going your way now... the light at the end of the tunnel can be seen !!!

 

[Austin Vert]

All the best of luck with it Kevin. BTW, you didn't tell us what coatings were on the inside of the panel, or are there no coatings per say. If there are, don't forget to isolate the inside from the outside as best you can to avoid any possible contam probs emerging.

Greg.

 

[turtle5353]

All the best of luck with it Kevin. BTW, you didn't tell us what coatings were on the inside of the panel, or are there no coatings per say. If there are, don't forget to isolate the inside from the outside as best you can to avoid any possible contam probs emerging.

Greg.

Thanks greg. I didn't see any type of coating inside the door. I did mask and tape the inside to isolate it.

 

[turtle5353]

All the best of luck with it Kevin. BTW, you didn't tell us what coatings were on the inside of the panel, or are there no coatings per say. If there are, don't forget to isolate the inside from the outside as best you can to avoid any possible contam probs emerging.

Greg.

Thanks greg. I didn't see any type of coating inside the door. I did mask and tape the inside to isolate it.

 

[turtle5353]

FINALLY DONE!!!!!!! I think it turned out pretty good for not having a booth to shoot in. Seems like every damn fly came to life in the garage last night but I managed to get the paint on without any troubles. Going to let it set a few days, then wet sand any small dust particles out and buff it. I am definitely happy with how it turned out and love my new gun. Also want to thank everyone that helped me through this damn door problem!!! I really appreciate all the great advice and support from this forum! I especially want to thank Greg, (Austinvert), for all the help and advice throughout this whole ordeal!! Greg was even nice enough to give me a call over the weekend all the way from Australia!!! Thanks again Greg and it was really nice talking to you over the weekend, look forward to doing it again some time.

Well, here's some pics for you guys. Door is done and I can move onto something else in the garage. I did this job for a buddy for free, but it did cost me a small fortune in Bud Light!! I learned a lot from this whole experience and hopefully came out a better painter in the end!

 

[CZ-75]

Looks great!

 

[Austin Vert]

Hey Kevin,

Thanks for the update on how you went with the door panel. That is very good news, and it seems the panel turned out well for you with your latest attempt to spray without contamination problems. It was my pleasure to help you through your paint problems and it was great catching up with you and talking on the phone from Australia to Pennsylvania the other day.

All the very best with any future projects you decide to take on in the future, and if i can be of any further help with anything, let me know. Lookin' good!

Greg.

 

[Go Time]

lookin Goooooood !!!