Need help painting interior

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digithead

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 24, 2016
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Location
UPSTATE NY
My Car
1973 Mustang 351C-4V 4BBL 4 SPEED CONVERTIBLE White
Help! So the previous owner clearly painted the rear quarter interior trim panels. Then he proceeded to glue/hot melt some speakers ON TOP OF THEM and that new paint. Dear Lord. So I hated that and speakers had to go. So I ripped them off and thought not problem I will just respray them. Well look at pix. Apparently when they are made they are smooth in mold and must be base coat is crackled speckle look. So when I pulled speaker I got the top coat and base. So its smooth. This pix is after I sprayed it. Even with sanding you can see the pothole because its SMOOTH under there. I experimented and did some sanding only to find I was just removing more of whatever that base coat is and left with very smooth plastic, no texture. What do you think I should do to them? Or toss them and go with the reprop ones?

panels.JPG

 
It looks like there is still texture there. I was able to use lacquer thinner to clean off the old lacquer paint online. I wonder if that would break down the glue to get it off. Maybe the glue just filled in the texture.

 
Hi John,

I can offer some good advice to help you with your problem. So ----------

DIAGNOSING THE PROBLEM.

To the best of my knowledge, these rigid trim panels were made from a gel coat type material with a fake vinyl grain impregnated into the material. Looking at your photo, the good news for you is that the condition of the overall finish of your panel appears to be very good and original. With age, and sun rot, a lot of 123 Mustang trim panels start surface breaking down and rotting away. This rot makes the surface go soft, chalky, and powdery, and crumbles away to the touch.

In your case, given that the original surface is in good condition,and the fake grain intact is a real plus. However from what you say, the previous owner has used a hot melt glue to attach speakers to the trim panels. That's where the damage gets done. Trying to remove that glue residue successfully without damaging the substrate is a real challenge. It must be also understood that any sanding of the original fake vinyl finish would start to remove or wear down and thus change the look of that vinyl finish, creating flat spots. Using certain stringent solvents to wipe over or clean the original surface, can also have this similar effect.

Looking at your photo, there still appears to be traces of the textured fake vinyl finish on the damaged area, but i can't be sure of that. In any event, you have sanded down that area, and so will have changed the original look of the finish. So, what can be done to try and fix the problem?

FIXING THE PROBLEM.

There are two basic ways you can go about repairing your trim panels. These revolve around your approach to the repairs. The first approach is DIY, and you will be using rattle cans only to carry out the repairs. The second approach is more professional, where you will be using auto spray paint shot from a spray gun and a compressor. Either way, my advice would be to go with using acrylic lacquer paint instead of 2pack paint in your case, mainly because it's more user friendly for the home guys to work with.

To make a successful and good looking repair, you will need to create a simulated vinyl textured finish to try at best to match the original fake vinyl finish on the trim panel. Looking at the first approach, using a rattle can product like SEM's textured spray finish would be a good way to go. The procedure then, would be to prep up the panel first by giving the entire panel a very light dry scuff over with 1200 wet & dry sandpaper, then use a wax and grease remover to clean down the entire panel. (I assume you don't want to disturb or remove the spray paint you have just put on yourself, or the older paint the previous owner put on). Apply the texture coating paint to the damaged area, and as you are spraying the paint on, back blend the paint progressively into all surrounding areas adjacenct to the small repair area.This blending technique helps disguise the repair area. You can also give this paint a scuff down between dried coats if you don't like the look of the finish as you are applying it.When you are happy with the look of all that, and the textured paint is dry enough, spray the whole trim area with a lacquer paint of your choosing and color and gloss level. This procedure should give you a decent finished result.

The second approach involves using a spray lacquer primer or putty product from the paint can, reducing it with lacquer thinner about 5 to 15%, and then shoot it through a putty gun or a gravity fed color gun (non HVLP) with a 2 or 3 ml setup. The application technique involves dropping your spray pressure down to around 5 to 10 psi at the gun head, and then apply light spatter coats to the repair area, and blending out to the surrounding areas as i said before. Again, you can scuff down the applied and dried texture coats to get the finish you like, and then drop another few coats on top of that. You get to control the look you want to end up with. When you're happy with that, move in and spray the entire trim panel with an Acrylic lacquer and color of your choice. Don't forget about choosing a gloss level that suits you as well. Also, Sem make their texture coat for a spray gun application as well. You could go that way if you wanted as an alternative to using the lacquer spray putty. I would go for a low satin finish myself, but matt is OK as well. This technique gives a great finished look as well.

See my references below to help you out. -



https://www.semproducts.com/refinish-flexible-coatings/texture-coating

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=sem+texture+paint&tbm=isch&imgil=t2H-uSeSyWamLM%253A%253BPXGrFlkf1SsbUM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.f150online.com%25252Fforums%25252Flightning%25252F218873-sem-texture-coating-3985-a.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=t2H-uSeSyWamLM%253A%252CPXGrFlkf1SsbUM%252C_&usg=__3oU2vM55is3fRhUDYAhrPmqCLUY%3D&biw=1920&bih=943&ved=0ahUKEwiu2MGRo_HLAhWDe6YKHarmDRcQyjcIJw&ei=JWwAV-6xI4P3mQWqzbe4AQ#imgrc=_

Hope all that helps,

Greg.:)

 
This is one more idea. The concept is that you spay a material on then take a texture pad and press the texture back on. I had too much damage to mine but this might be good for your small repair. He has pads for ford or you can make one of your panel.

http://www.docstotalpackage.net

 
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awesome SDSTANG, I've been looking for the proper grain, for an interior panel I've repaired, but have yet to paint.

 
THanks alot that helps. You nailed it with powdery description. When I did sand is when I got that flaky powdery blue stuff. I was scratching my head. So you enlightened me how it was made. I cannot believe this guy made a nice car and GLUED SPEAKERS to the surface of these! And to make it worse the wires ran right up and over the top edge to get to trunk. You could SEE wires on surface. Ugh.

 
Would it be possible to use some kind of liquid rubber to press on the undamaged areas of the panel and thus creating a textured press pad to recreate the pattern on the damaged area?

Bru

 
Without taking one of mine off the car to check for sure, these parts are likely to be injection molded ABS (or PP) and the texture is formed in the mold surface. Some vacuum formed panels are made from stock that has a textured skin applied before forming. ABS is quite a tough material and should take some heavy cleaning, but sanding will remove the texture for sure. Greg suggested using SEM texture paint (Video) and it is a good product. I have used SEM products to finish plastic air cleaner and other prototype parts for years with excellent results, however, you need to make sure the products you are using are for plastic which will be more flexible. Worst case, look for good replacements and refinish them.

Many very good suggestions here, so good luck with it.

Geoff.

 
I used a 3-part process on my interior pieces I was able to 'restore.' But first cleaned the crap out of the pieces with some Simple Green, then prepped with some House of Kolors KC20 cleaner (to remove any residue), using bees-wax tack cloths to wipe them down.

Then I sprayed on some SEM Adhesion Promoter (which softened the plastic slightly to receive the texture).

After sitting for the recommended time period, I sprayed on some SEM Texture (39853), which went on kinda milky, then dried clear. Did a pretty good job of re-texturing the pieces.

Then, I finished up with several thin coats of the SEM Black Metallic (correct for my car's interior).

The restored pieces turned out great, and look good as new! ::thumb::

My interior quarter trim pieces were way worse than yours, and had to 5 1/2" speaker holes in them, so I went with the ABS repop pieces. They're nice enough pieces, but I haven't 100% gotten them installed properly (I was in a hurry and stuffed 'em in - which they look great - but, they need a little more tweaking to be where they need to be). I had to paint them with the SEM Black Metallic, which I used the same process, minus the Texture coat, since they had great texturing already.

 
I used a 3-part process on my interior pieces I was able to 'restore.' But first cleaned the crap out of the pieces with some Simple Green, then prepped with some House of Kolors KC20 cleaner (to remove any residue), using bees-wax tack cloths to wipe them down.

Then I sprayed on some SEM Adhesion Promoter (which softened the plastic slightly to receive the texture).

After sitting for the recommended time period, I sprayed on some SEM Texture (39853), which went on kinda milky, then dried clear. Did a pretty good job of re-texturing the pieces.

Then, I finished up with several thin coats of the SEM Black Metallic (correct for my car's interior).

The restored pieces turned out great, and look good as new! ::thumb::

My interior quarter trim pieces were way worse than yours, and had to 5 1/2" speaker holes in them, so I went with the ABS repop pieces. They're nice enough pieces, but I haven't 100% gotten them installed properly (I was in a hurry and stuffed 'em in - which they look great - but, they need a little more tweaking to be where they need to be). I had to paint them with the SEM Black Metallic, which I used the same process, minus the Texture coat, since they had great texturing already.
Good advice here.

Geoff.

 
Without taking one of mine off the car to check for sure, these parts are likely to be injection molded ABS (or PP) and the texture is formed in the mold surface. Some vacuum formed panels are made from stock that has a textured skin applied before forming. ABS is quite a tough material and should take some heavy cleaning, but sanding will remove the texture for sure. Greg suggested using SEM texture paint (Video) and it is a good product. I have used SEM products to finish plastic air cleaner and other prototype parts for years with excellent results, however, you need to make sure the products you are using are for plastic which will be more flexible. Worst case, look for good replacements and refinish them.

Many very good suggestions here, so good luck with it.

Geoff.
THats what I thought at first Geoff and why I thought it would be fairly easy repair. But after working on them, I think when they are molded they are smooth and the finish applied had the texture. I didnt "sand" the texture out. The finish flaked/chipped out pretty easy right down to smooth plastic. So I took a basic 1" wide paint scrapper and scraped a bit and it easily flaked off right to smooth plastic. Thats why when I ripped off the hot melted (on) speaker it ripped out a chunk down to smooth plastic. I am experimenting with some textured paint, a few coats, and some sanding and will report back.

 
Without taking one of mine off the car to check for sure, these parts are likely to be injection molded ABS (or PP) and the texture is formed in the mold surface. Some vacuum formed panels are made from stock that has a textured skin applied before forming. ABS is quite a tough material and should take some heavy cleaning, but sanding will remove the texture for sure. Greg suggested using SEM texture paint (Video) and it is a good product. I have used SEM products to finish plastic air cleaner and other prototype parts for years with excellent results, however, you need to make sure the products you are using are for plastic which will be more flexible. Worst case, look for good replacements and refinish them.

Many very good suggestions here, so good luck with it.

Geoff.
THats what I thought at first Geoff and why I thought it would be fairly easy repair. But after working on them, I think when they are molded they are smooth and the finish applied had the texture. I didnt "sand" the texture out. The finish flaked/chipped out pretty easy right down to smooth plastic. So I took a basic 1" wide paint scrapper and scraped a bit and it easily flaked off right to smooth plastic. Thats why when I ripped off the hot melted (on) speaker it ripped out a chunk down to smooth plastic. I am experimenting with some textured paint, a few coats, and some sanding and will report back.
I see! That is interesting if the finish were to be a surface process. I admit, I have not spent a whole lot of time looking at my panels to verify the finish, but typically surface texture is in the mold to save those added processes. That does not mean it was not an added process. I will have to take a close look at mine when I get the car out of the garage. Now my curiosity is up!!

Anyway, I hope you achieve the finish you are looking for.

Geoff


Another thought, what is the back side plastic color? If it is black and your panels are say, blue, then yes they are painted, but I am still pretty sure the texture will be molded in. Like I said, now I'm very curios!

 
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The back side is blue plastic, but smooth. Bear in mind maybe the added "cost" of making that textured mold wasnt worth it vs. smooth one. I have no way to tell, but my scrape test was like removing old flaky paint on house. And I was instantly at smooth plastic, no texture, real quick too.Like a earlier post from another member, the stuff that "flaked" off was real dry and powdery, not like anything I have seen. Makes think its part of compound they had sprayed on and over time and sun it got flaky and dry.

 
The back side is blue plastic, but smooth. Bear in mind maybe the added "cost" of making that textured mold wasnt worth it vs. smooth one. I have no way to tell, but my scrape test was like removing old flaky paint on house. And I was instantly at smooth plastic, no texture, real quick too.Like a earlier post from another member, the stuff that "flaked" off was real dry and powdery, not like anything I have seen. Makes think its part of compound they had sprayed on and over time and sun it got flaky and dry.
Hi again John,

A word of caution if i may. I assumed the surface condition of your trim panels was good from your initial description. However, from what you are saying now, the surface is to some degree, dry, flaky and powdery. If the surface is like this to any extent, then exercise caution when sanding or handling the panels per say. You don't want to surface damage the trim panels any more from what they are now.

I don't know exactly what shape or degree your panels are in with this regard, but i remember mine were badly powdering, and breaking down on my '73 Vert quarter trim panels from age. Because the breaking down/ powdery effect was so bad, i couldn't spray paint over them successfully, and ended up getting my trimmer to recover the panels with a lovely cream vinyl.They look a million dollars.

Greg.:)

 
The back side is blue plastic, but smooth. Bear in mind maybe the added "cost" of making that textured mold wasnt worth it vs. smooth one. I have no way to tell, but my scrape test was like removing old flaky paint on house. And I was instantly at smooth plastic, no texture, real quick too.Like a earlier post from another member, the stuff that "flaked" off was real dry and powdery, not like anything I have seen. Makes think its part of compound they had sprayed on and over time and sun it got flaky and dry.
That is interesting and you could well be right. The panels could be surface textured as they are painted. I may know where I can get another panel to play with as my curiosity is definitely way up there now. I'm not about to play with the ones I have, but this is all great info in case I do have to refinish mine at some point.

This is what I love about the forum. We can go over different ideas and come up with solutions that otherwise might not be obvious.

Geoff.

 
i'll report back, hope I dont trash mine. But I am trying some texture paint to get a even cover, then lightly sanding that, then priming a light color base, then back to my blue. Wish I had a paint booth!

 
All,

This is one good site to have the mustang restore favorites.

http://www.docstotalpackage.net/

I have a great 1973 front grill that just needs some repair and the Plastic man looks like the stuff to get. Anybody tried the Plastic Man Vinyl Repair for ABS?

Plastic Man is a VINYL REPAIR COMPOUND heat cured. It is medium viscosity.

http://www.docstotalpackage.net/leather_vinyl_repair_product_compound_plastic_man

mustang7173

 
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