New sheet metal

[Omie01]

Again I have been watching a lot of body work videos, and the one thing that keeps coming up is poorly formed sheet metal. My question is this. Do the after market doors and fenders fit reasonably well on our cars? What about full or partial quarter panel replacements? I may need a new trunk lid has anybody used an aftermarket one yet? If so which brands. And then, The HOOD, I think I already asked once about after market hoods. Who makes the best one? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!! I fear body work, thats why all the questions!

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

All of the 71-73 sheet metal is made by Dynacorn. I was talking with Daniel Carpenter about how crappy the panels are. He said pretty much the same supplier in Taiwan makes all the repo metal.

I was an automotive product, process and tooling engineer. There are several things that make the panels not as good as OEM. They use very soft metal to produce the parts so the panels are easy to form. The issue with that is if you lean on a car with Taiwan metal it bends very easily. The tooling was originally made using wood patterns to trace the shape from. All they can do to repo is find a NOS panel and they laser scan that. A fender or quarter panel off the car is just a floppy piece of sheet metal so they have no ideal where the zero is for the part being scanned.

When you do use Taiwan metal you should strip the black e-coat off on the outside completely. The reason is the panels sit around and sometimes start to rust and the rust is under the e-coat. Not always but not worth the risk of it coming out.

The Dynacorn hoods are also very soft and usually have too much crown in the form front to back. They do not weld the hem around the outside so that you can change the arch of the hood. Some people try to shim the fender and bend it but much better to just work the hood. The way you do it is to put the hood on the floor with blocks of wood on all 4 corners. Then you cut a block for the center edge so that you can actually stand on the hood to bend in down to take some of the arch out. Do it slowly a little at a time and keep checking the fit. Once you get the arch right then you tack weld the hem and seam seal it so no rust bleeds out.

Also even though they e-coat the hoods and trunks there is not enough space between the inner and outer panels so there is no paint inside there. You can buy some cans of spay from Eastwood with long wands so you can put some protection inside.

The same goes for doors you need to seal the seams inside and out. Water goes inside the doors from rain or washing and sits in the seam and rust it.

When you do body panel replacement you need to be sure the unibody structure is in correct factory position. This is done by a frame shop that can pull the car back into position. Then you need to support the body to prevent deflection when you cut panels off. Also bracing needs to be added to prevent deflection.

When fitting panels even in the factory they do not line up. They twist, bend and hammer to fit on the assembly line.

You should never do panel replacement on a rotisserie. You can go to rotisserie for your sanding and painting but all fitting needs to be done with the car supported either on wheels or you can invest in a specific frame made to hold the car in position.

New repo sheet metal will never be a clamp it on and weld it. You have to make it fit first. Might even require you to split a new panel and then weld it back to make it fit. Watch lots of how to videos and check out builds on the forum.

If you are close to an outlet for the panels you can save some money buy going to pick them up. I am only 100 miles from NPD in Charlotte it saves a lot of shipping cost and also damage from handling. They will ship LTL, Less Than Load, that means they might load and unload the panels several times during the transport so damage happens. You can also maybe pick the up at a swap meet. Have a Mustang parts vendor bring them and you pick them up there.

BTW most of the NOS panels out there have been tossed around for so many years they are not right either. When we ran parts for service they could be rejects that were not good enough to go to the assembly plant. In other words we sent our scrap parts to be service parts. I got new Ford front fenders for my 1984 mustang and had to fix a dozen dents and low places in the new parts straight from Ford warehouse.

 

[jowens1126]

sounds like you would be money ahead to invest in one or more parts cars to strip parts off of.

 

[mustang7173]

All,

Anybody used the Golden Star Classic 1971 1973 NASA Hood? I called NPD and this is what they sell. According to the Charlotte sales rep., they have had only one come back according to last years sales record. I read Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs reply and was a bit disappointed in the Dynacorn part. That was the part is was looking to buy.

https://goldenstarauto.com/Productdetails.aspx?id=HO20-71&c=9&sc=259&pi=1

Any feed back would greatly appreciated!!

 

[Omie01]

I'm guessing this would also be a Dynacorn part as I have never heard of any other company making sheet metal. If there was, we would already know about it because nobody REALLY wants to use Dynacorn sheet metal if they don't have to. Usually we have no other choice! I'm really hoping I don't need too much sheet metal for my restoration.

 

[jpaz]

The owner of the shop where my car is being rebuilt said that it’s a crap shoot. One panel fits great and the next one on the same car fits like crap. I just got a new hood and both fenders. The hood and passenger fender fits pretty good, but the driver side fender fit horrible. They had a hell of time getting it to look good, but they finally did. I did already have replacement hood and fenders and they fit ok, but definitely not like factory. Just make sure to fit everything to exactly the way you want it before you start to do finish work. Don’t assume these panels will fit good. Doesn’t matter where they come from, they are all the same quality. And I may also add that it’s not just the 71-73’s with these panel fitment issues, it’s all of them. The steel is just not the same quality or thickness as original. Hell, I think I had even dented the top of my old replacement fenders from leaning on them with my bony elbows when working on engine!

 

[Mister 4x4]

I'd wager that no less than 60% of my Mach 1 is repop sheet metal.  The fenders, front & rear valances, quarter panels, outer wheelhouses, taillight panel, trunk lid, floor pans, seat platforms, trunk pan & drop-offs, and rear cross-member.  It might've actually been easier to mention what's still original (hood, roof, doors, and upper quarters).   :whistling:

I don't see the issue with using repop parts because my car is not rare, collectible, or inherently valuable.  It's just a fun car that I built for my own pleasure, rather than as an investment or as part of a valued collection.  The repop parts are 'close enough' for my purposes, since an H-Code will most likely never tip the auction for more than $30K in the absolute very best condition possible... let alone one that's been pieced back together and resurrected from the dead.  Sure, I've got WAY more than that into mine, but I'm also a realist knowing that I'll never get it back were I to sell it - I would value my car in the mid $20s, if push came to shove (which is about half of what I told the insurance company, of course     ).

I'm not sure if the quality has gotten better or worse since I did mine, but I can honestly say that I had very little hassle getting the repop sheet metal to fit my car.  I had to split the rear seam of the quarter to get the wrap-around bottom curve just right, then re-weld it.  The hood being original presents its own unique issues when mating up to repop fenders, but I do envision the need to replace it at some point down the road (since there's no way to really get all of the potential rusty bits totally eliminated within the interior structure of the hood 'sandwich').  When I do, it'll be a repop hood, and I'll make it work.

Regardless of the source of the replacement piece, chances are very good that there will be some work involved making it fit.  Most likely, the car will have been hit, requiring the damaged piece(s) to be replaced... which means nothing is going to 'fit right' without some work.  Some pieces will fit better than others, and some will be better quality than others.  That's just the way it is these days, since the market for factory replacement parts has all but dried up, which after almost 50 years it's to be expected.

Obviously, if the car is rare, valuable, and/or collectible, take the time to find and spend the money for the NOS parts for a faithful restoration.  But if you're looking for a quick and less expensive way to get things back together, there's nothing wrong with the repop pieces, in my book.

 

[OMS]

All,

Anybody used the Golden Star Classic 1971 1973 NASA Hood? I called NPD and this is what they sell. According to the Charlotte sales rep., they have had only one come back according to last years sales record. I read Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs reply and was a bit disappointed in the Dynacorn part. That was the part is was looking to buy.

https://goldenstarauto.com/Productdetails.aspx?id=HO20-71&c=9&sc=259&pi=1

Any feed back would greatly appreciated!!

Hey, not sure why NPD would tell you they buy the hood from a wholesaler in TX

NPD is definitely buying direct in Taiwan and shipping conex containers full of parts back from one of the [ 4 ] YES FOUR manufacturers sheet metal, at least 2 maybe 3 make the NASA hood at this time.

Golden Star Classic auto is a wholesaler who buys parts from the producing factories and then imports container loads of the parts from Taiwan to the USA just like Dynacorn.

Dynacorn is much larger and does pay to have some tooling made, so they have some exclusive rights on the parts made for them, to there specifications that no one else can buy from the factory.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

I would be amazed if Taiwan simply built tooling and made parts. No mustangs were sold there or in China until recently so they do not even know what Mustangs are. Someone in U.S.A. would have to start the tooling. Daniel Carpenter told me that all of the Mustang parts came off the same tooling. He and his dad go there and have seen the parts run not someone said someone said.

If I could see the parts side by side the tools are like fingerprints you can tell if they came off the same dies.

You can build a draw die, one that forms the part, in a few days, yes days. You simply cast in zinc and with CNC can machine in no time. They use laser to cut edges instead of building a die. 

In a normal die process you do the draw, then couple trims, pierce, and then a restrike to set any mating surface like the weld flanges and where two parts meet. With repo the draw and laser trim and no restrike. Lots of panels require at least 6 operations originally some at Ford Woodhaven stamping were 8.

All the Japanese do a max of 4 hits. There panels are not as accurate as Ford. Been there done that.

Once the tooling is built nobody stands guard there they probably run what they want when they want. I lived there I know how they are. No 10 commandments in China or Taiwan, lol. Lie, Cheat, Steal as long as it makes money.

 

[OzCoupe72]

Yes seems odd that 2-3 companies would have tooled up for the same parts, would be an expensive exercise but as long as they profit

I have a few repro panels including cowl, hood, floors, quarter patch and ALL required some reworking however I don't care, just happy I can actually get them!

I have just received a new trunk lid and can't even work out which brand or company made it yet

They are a bit thinner than original but overall acceptable, got to be careful though as already damaged the new trunk trying to straighten the hinges and have heard horror stories with the hoods buckling when closing although luckily mine was originally a flat hood with softer springs so all good so far

I reckon everyone here would be glad to pay a premium price for a guaranteed quality product, I know I would, but at the moment as others say it's a crap shoot.

One thing I must mention is so far I've received all panels in good condition considering they have travelled all over the globe I got lucky perhaps but they were certainly packaged well.

 

[Bill73Ragtop]

Fitment issues aside, one aspect of using the reproduction to be aware of is they will dent and dimple very easily. Add in a nice BC-CC paint and they really show up.

The "Ford tooling" Dynacorn hood on my 69 Stang (and I would think the 71-73 would exhibit the same) has several small distortions in the surface from getting hit with highway debris and whatever else nature can provide (high altitude bird bomb!). The paint itself shows no defects like a chip or scratch, but the small minute dents keep occurring after several seasons of shows, cruises and pleasure trips.

One of my 'look for' items is a straight rust free reasonably priced hood to replace the reproduction. Problem is they are scarce, expensive to ship and should be looked at before purchase to ensure decent quality.

 

[OMS]

David, keep in mind you said ALL reproduction parts makers lie... so

Apex

Goodmark

Golden Legion

GT

And a couple of other smaller factories

Anyone of them will make any part you want.

Send a sample, specifications, coatings and money.

You pay for the tooling costs , buy a certain quantity and can have an exclusive.

Pay enough – long term exclusive – like a lot of Dynacorn parts, they own the tooling, no one else can buy the parts from the factory.

Dynacorn sent a 71 convertible to one of the factories they work with

Dynacorn  has the parts made to their specifications – but they do not make anything

Then there is “public tooling” factory owns it.

You order a certain quantity, quality, specify coatings, pay enough they will print your name on the box

 

[detritusmaximus]

Fitment issues aside, one aspect of using the reproduction to be aware of is they will dent and dimple very easily.   Add in a nice BC-CC paint and they really show up.

The "Ford tooling" Dynacorn hood on my 69 Stang (and I would think the 71-73 would exhibit the same) has several small distortions in the surface from getting hit with highway debris and whatever else nature can provide (high altitude bird bomb!).  The paint itself shows no defects like a chip or scratch, but the small minute dents keep occurring after several seasons of shows, cruises and pleasure trips.

One of my 'look for' items is a straight rust free reasonably priced hood to replace the reproduction.  Problem is they are scarce, expensive to ship and should be looked at before purchase to ensure decent quality.

If the sheetmetal is not thick enough and your distortions are shallowish, it could be that thermal expansion and contraction is causing the distortions, especially if they are in the middle of a larger flat area. The more curve or shape there is, the less it happens because the panel is held in tension, a flatter panel can bow in or out as it expands. Enough bowing and it won't return to it's previous shape.

 

[MikeGriese]

I used up most of my parts finding luck when a guy on eBay had a original, new old stock ram air hood made in 1974 still in the original box for $1k. I had watched the part for months as it went around the auction block at least a dozen times for $3k and above. Turns out there was one bidder that kept stringing the seller along, always trying to lower the price after the auction ended. The seller listed the hood for $1k, nobody else bid and I got it. It was close enough I could pick it up with a 4 hour round trip.

 

[Bill73Ragtop]

If the sheetmetal is not thick enough and your distortions are shallowish, it could be that thermal expansion and contraction is causing the distortions, especially if they are in the middle of a larger flat area. The more curve or shape there is, the less it happens because the panel is held in tension, a flatter panel can bow in or out as it expands. Enough bowing and it won't return to it's previous shape.

Nope, they're definitely little dents / dings.

 

[mustang7173]

All,

Looks like a crap shoot here on the reproduction hoods here. Thanks to all who responded. I am working Don to get the best part.

 

[vintageman]

Since we are on the topic of sheet metal, on both of my quarter panel replacements, to get the fit properly, I had to do a little dolly work at the rear lip to line everything up, it seemed like the panels were about an 1/8 inch too long. Once that was done, I liked the fitment. For my rear floor pans under the seat, there was no 71-73 pans available so I had to use an older year and do a little hammering to get a better fit. No real issues with the front fenders that I picked up a few months ago (someone gave them to me new with no boxes so I don't know the brand).

Now for a little rant. I recently did the molasses treatment on my hood and found more holes and bondo so I put that to the side and ordered a repop hood from Mustangs Unlimited, it arrived today. Box was in great condition, no signs of misuse or abuse. Driver left, I then opened the box and found that there was a rubber type of cushions at the rear of the hood to protect it but nothing at the front end and at the front left, the end was bent over like it was dropped prior to be packaged. Called M/U and they asked for pictures, which I sent. A few minutes later, they called, said there was obvious damage, could I send them pics of the box so they could file a claim with the shippers. I explained that the box was in great condition, but sent pics anyway. They just called to say once I send the hood back, they will evaluate it and then send another hood to me. I explained that I took this week off to work on the mustang and that any other time, there would not be anyone at home for a delivery as they only give a 9-5 window. Their suggestion was to just pay for another and they would get it out right away, and then when they receive the damaged on, they will refund my initial cost. No way would I pay for another, then hope they refund my money.

Tom

 

[Omie01]

All too often this a story that keeps popping up. I think so many people complain these days that some places just take on the hard attitude right away. They like the money, but they don't like being responsible for their product. Something else they should do is try all of their products, restore cars for showcasing their stuff, then sell them off, that way they know what quality their parts are, or could give you tips on how to make parts work!! But I have heard some outrageous lies just to convince me that they know there parts "fit" or "work". Not all of them are bad understand, but the aftermarket parts world is a crap shoot at best!! Good luck to all! We do it for the love of these cars!!

 

[turtle5353]

At least we have some repop stuff to work with! Could be worse! We could be forced to fabricate and repair our panels ourselves. Just get used to having 99% of the parts needing some work. The hoods need bent and stiffened with welds on the seam. The quarter panels need sliced in front and back to fit perfect. They also have wrong angle bend at bottom. Fenders don’t fit the fender extensions correctly. I had to slice and metal work the front 6”. But at least I had a base to modify and I didn’t have to start from scratch. Nothing is going to drop in and be perfect. But I do agree, they definitely could be better!