new shocks advice

[Fabrice]

@mustangChris

[some friends had Koni shocks on their rides and claimed they were the best.]

I have Koni's but wouldn't claim they are the best. They were clearly superior to the original or whatever equipment that was installed before (don't recall).

They do give a excellent mix of comfort and sporty feeling, but now days, the tech is well known and I'm sure most respectable brands will offer similar if not better.

@Stanglover

[ the shocks are moving around, leaving a mark. I had this issue as well and is the reason I added a thick 3/8" washer ]

When I was looking for a used pair of upper shock mounts. (mine as new and freshly chromed were stolen), I've found a few showing an oblong hole, a washer will certainly help, ideally these should have something like door hinges, some bronze guide.

 

[Stanglover]

.

@Stanglover

[ the shocks are moving around, leaving a mark.  I had this issue as well and is the reason I added a thick 3/8" washer ]

When I was looking for a used pair of upper shock mounts. (mine as new and freshly chromed were stolen), I've found a few showing an oblong hole, a washer will certainly help, ideally these should have something like door hinges, some bronze guide.

 Fabrice, not quite sure what you are meaning by "something like door hinges, some bronze guide" ? I have not personally seen any upper shock mounts with an oblong hole, so I guess they are badly worn from the shock piston rod moving around too much.

In the previous threads on shocks I mentioned before and from my own experience, I am convinced the springs themselves are a lot to blame for ill fitting shocks, whether they are too tight or too lose. When I installed my new Scott Drake front end kit, the springs provided were 2" taller than the ones I took out. The shocks used were the KYB's provided. To cut the long story, I removed those springs and, after checking with Eaton Springs, I reinstalled the originals. What I found then was the top bushing was not tight enough to keep it from moving around. Adding the washer between the rubbers and the cup solved the problem and they have not moved since.

Here are the pictures I was unable to find in my past posts. The first pic shows where the bushing was moving around. The second is a washers in the lower cup. There is one in the top cup as well. Also, the bushing have different diameter shoulder, top and bottom. These need to be correctly installed in the mounts.

 

[Fabrice]

@StangLover

[Fabrice, not quite sure what you are meaning by "something like door hinges, some bronze guide" ? I have not personally seen any upper shock mounts with an oblong hole, so I guess they are badly worn from the shock piston rod moving around too much.]

Yes, there were surely issues with the shocks or more, I haven't checked that, both cars were in a junkyard in Belgium (Liebbens, Gent). You do not really diagnose in such place, you just salvage what you can, (had more stolen parts to replace) All I know is that the mounts holes had been metal on metal and no longer round on both cars. Costed me do an extra 250 kms up north where I've located another one in Holland. Just saying that even if the shock are still ok, if the rubbers are old and do not have their expected height, a play can appear on top the mount. Thats what I believe happend on these two cars (20-23 years old at the time),. If two cars next to each other showed this prob, even if both were poorly maintained, that not an isolated prob to me. So was just saying that if the mount was having a guide, this would not occur.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/4UoAAOxyqOxRujDl/s-l300.jpg

 

[Stanglover]

@StangLover

[Fabrice, not quite sure what you are meaning by "something like door hinges, some bronze guide" ? I have not personally seen any upper shock mounts with an oblong hole, so I guess they are badly worn from the shock piston rod moving around too much.]

Yes, there were surely issues with the shocks or more, I haven't checked that, both cars were in a junkyard in Belgium (Liebbens, Gent). You do not really diagnose in such place, you just salvage what you can, (had more stolen parts to replace)  All I know is that the mounts holes had been metal on metal and no longer round on both cars. Costed me do an extra 250 kms up north where I've located another one in Holland. Just saying that even if the shock are still ok, if the rubbers are old and do not have their expected height, a play can appear on top the mount. Thats what I believe happend on these two cars (20-23 years old at the time),. If two cars next to each other showed this prob, even if both were poorly maintained, that not an isolated prob to me. So was just saying that if the mount was having a guide, this would not occur.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/4UoAAOxyqOxRujDl/s-l300.jpg

 Okay, got you. Now I understand what you were saying and I guess it could work. Another alternative is to get the oblong section welded up then file it round again. I think I'd go that route first if welding was available, tig or mig that is. No part is a right-off unless it's rusted beyond repair.

Obviously, there is a lot of pressure in all directions on those bushings and if not kept maintained, the rods will eventually wear the hole out of round.

Just to recap, my shocks are KYB KB4504, gas-a-just. The issue was that the rod was not held tight enough by the bushings with the nuts bottomed out. If the thread was a 1/4" (6mm) longer, this wouldn't happen. My fix was to use the thick washers to take up that slack. Now until the bushing wear out, any movement will be within the bushing as it should be.

Geoff.

 

[red351]

This is something that occurred after the top shock mount went stud where as older style eye loop could hold it in place. It's not the spring fault. Its the bottom spring saddle. Sometime in the early 60's, Ford changed from a bronze to a rubber saddle bushing. The bronze was greaseable and rotated freely. The rubber when pressed together needed to be clocked in the right position so when the saddle was bolted to upper A arm the shock fell dead center into the top mount hole (only when the tire is sitting on the ground and full down weigh. It didn't always work way. The bushings fit was to tight and couldn't adjust itself if in the wrong clock position, and pulled the shock off center. That's why so many folks today are using a bearing saddle or removing the rubber bushing and slid a free rotating urethane bushing in (my favorite its cheap) and drill it for a grease fitting. They will squeak if dry..

 

[Stanglover]

This is something that occurred after the top shock mount went stud where as older style eye loop could hold it in place.  It's not the spring fault. Its the bottom spring saddle. Sometime in the early 60's, Ford changed from a bronze to a rubber saddle bushing. The bronze was greaseable  and rotated freely. The rubber when pressed together needed to be clocked in the right position so when the saddle was bolted to upper A arm the shock fell dead center into the top mount hole (only when the tire is sitting on the ground and full down weigh. It didn't always work way. The bushings fit was to tight and couldn't adjust itself if in the wrong clock position, and pulled the shock off center. That's why so many folks today are using a bearing saddle or removing the rubber bushing and slid a free rotating urethane bushing in (my favorite its cheap) and drill it for a grease fitting. They will squeak if dry..

 Red351, I see what you are meaning and probably very true. I can certainly see that would or could happen. My reference to wrong springs was in regard to these aftermarket suppliers, as was the case with Scott Drake, selling totally incorrect springs for the application, i.e. a "one-size-fits-all" approach, which is total crap.

In my case, the original springs checked out to still be in spec according the Eaton Springs, so they were reinstalled and so far no issues. However the heads up on a possible problem is well noted and something to keep in mind.

Thanks,

Geoff.

 

[Fabrice]

@StangLover

[i think I'd go that route first if welding was available, tig or mig that is.]

Ah yes, today I would do that too. Back then, I wanted not only the parts but also them to be in ok state, with bit more persistence and phone calls using the big bad yellow books, you could even locate some in the right colour! And all that for a very affordable price! If I could find 71-73 in junkyards or about to be sent to crusher by owners as easy as in the 80's now, I'd prolly take the entire car back home and save whatever savable till last bolt! Unfortunately, not only 71-73 are not likely to be found in junkyards in Europe anymore, even junkyards I knew have disappeared...

 

[Stanglover]

@StangLover

[i think I'd go that route first if welding was available, tig or mig that is.]

Ah yes, today I would do that too. Back then, I wanted not only the parts but also them to be in ok state, with bit more persistence and phone calls using the big bad yellow books, you could even locate some in the right colour! And all that for a very affordable price! If I could find 71-73 in junkyards or about to be sent to crusher by owners as easy as in the 80's now, I'd prolly take the entire car back home and save whatever savable till last bolt! Unfortunately, not only 71-73 are not likely to be found in junkyards in Europe anymore, even junkyards I knew have disappeared...

 Fabrice, I certainly get what you're saying, and couldn't agree more. In 1980, I bought my 72 Q code Mach 1 and a few weeks later picked up another H code Mach 1 for 500 bucks as a parts car, which I put back on the road and sold for a nice profit...... I should have kept both cars.

Here in Ontario, Canada, these cars a becoming very rare in any condition. I only know of a few and they are being held as parts cars and are NOT for sale!! I have a friend with 3 Mach's in his barn that are strictly for HIS 2 Mustangs, won't even sell to me!! Nice friend. I know of 2 73's in our local metal recyclers yard, but the owner thinks he has a gold mine with them and there not much left on them either, not worth even asking for prices. The days of putting a parts car in the garage or barn are over my friend.

 

[Vinnie]

OK, I think it will be KYB's but there are normal gas shocks and gas-adjust shocks. Are any of them better in any way? Seems like installation is the same for both. What's with the "adjust" part?

 

[Robsweden]

Hi

I went with Gabriel Gas front and back, I Think they are pretty ok.

 

[Hemikiller]

Gas-a-just are supposed to react to the road conditions and sort of self adjust in real time. Not sure if it really works or not, but they are a very popular "upgrade" for the musclecar crowd. I find them a bit too stiff for my tastes on my 71 and will be trying a set of the Excel-G this summer. If I'm still not satisfied, I'll send my Konis out for rebuild and put those in.

 

[NOT A T5]

I think Koni's for front shocks are the best. They are adjustable...soft,medium and hard. You push the rod all the way in and turn, there are 3 locking settings. I set mine to hard. These shocks were expensive back then and Made in Holland. I use polyurethane bushings on the shocks top and bottom and heavy duty springs sitting on roller perches with polyurethane bushings as well. I lift my car up in the front all the time without any problems. By the way...STAY AWAY from Scott Drake Parts!!!

 

[Vinnie]

So this is what happens when trying to order from overseas, great....

Fabrice: you mentioned you made them yourself. How did you do that?

 

[Fabrice]

So this is what happens when trying to order from overseas, great....

Fabrice: you mentioned you made them yourself. How did you do that?

Its very simple: first you need a chef and make friend with him to get the polyurethane plate they use to cook/cut stuff with

hehehe, that's actually a true story! Cut mine out of that plate!

of course you can look online here in Holland. Search for for rubber/plastic/polyurethane plates. 

I have a bookmark somewhere, I'll look for you if I can find it back. Also bought 2 other plates at IKEA in kitchen department, as I needed a smaller one (the one i got was 1.5 cm or something, and needed make new ones but less thick)

Prob with Ikea(just like my chef friend) is that they do not have black. Thats why all the ones I did are white.

to make them, its a 3 steps process, I've used basic tools and it takes a few minutes to make them. 

You need first need drill a hole, just big enough so it acts as a guide. The second step , is using a wood round saw. You can buy these at any "gamma" [dutch supply store]. These come with a drill in the middle. so you use the guide you did earlyer for it. Once cut, you redrill the center hole at the desired radius to match your whatever axle you want to make these for. Last step is simple mount the "ring" on your drill machine and sand with very raw paper for the small ones (tried that beware its messy, go for the next option if you have a milling machine and/or if they are big enough to hold them to the bit safely) or much better use a milling bit with a bearing if you want specific profile. For the middle one, I have this conic shaped bit that I usually use to finish my aluminium parts after making hole. Its has a radius large enough that so far it met all my needs for these.

went to garage for you... you can see the thick plate and the result. on right side, these are IKEA plates that i've used for other smaller applications, was a pack of 3.



If you can't find a cheap plate and want white ones, pm me your address, i'll cut a piece of mine for you!

 

[Vinnie]

Ah, the LEGITIM, nice IKEA hack! ;-)

It does make me wonder though, is that material not too hard? Rubber bushings are a lot softer... Also the IKEA website lists it as made of Polyethylene, which is different from Polyurethane.

1 board is only 1,5 euro though which is very, very, very cheap.

Oh! Look what I found: https://www.perlaplast-kunststofshop.nl/pe-polyetheen-rondstaf-zwart-diameter-40-mm-l-1000-mm.html. Think that would work?

 

[Fabrice]

Ah, the LEGITIM, nice IKEA hack! ;-)

It does make me wonder though, is that material not too hard? Rubber bushings are a lot softer... Also the IKEA website lists it as made of Polyethylene, which is different from Polyurethane.

1 board is only 1,5 euro though which is very, very, very cheap.

Oh! Look what I found: https://www.perlaplast-kunststofshop.nl/pe-polyetheen-rondstaf-zwart-diameter-40-mm-l-1000-mm.html. Think that would work?

Well, i'm not claiming rubber doesn't have its advantages.

But when it comes to steering components, shocks etc... you can test the new rubber parts most manufacturer provide when you buy them, 

its not that soft either. Its pretty stiff and when the rubber is new, its just bits softer than the polyurethane parts. The main diff is that the polyurethane will not distort over time or even crack. (the one you see are on the car for at least a 15 years and lifted the car countless time since then. Try that with the rubber ones...) Even if the plate you see on pict looks "hard", you will see and even feel it, if you try to put a nail onto the surface, its actually not that hard. It looks like a solid piece of plastic that could break like plexi, but its really not. Its flexible but will conserve its original shape unlike rubber that will degrade over time.

From my experience, its much better for this kind of application and for years now, when I need replace a rubber, I look first if I can make it or if there are alternative kits avail not to pricy. Last I did was a total kit for my wife mini. which includes all the subframe bushings. Its day and nite, car takes turns like a kart now and even better, I did not get any complains from my wife since then

Basically you get that new rubbers feeling all the time, just like after installing new shocks.

If need something that absorbs a wide range of compression, use the rubber(like) stuff, for instance, the rubber parts to protect your hood to move side ways, the extra bumpers for doors, trunk...

For the shock tower, no doubts for me: its far superior. Prolly why Summit and other perf shops offer them.

A plate cost a pinut yes, and you can make way more than the shock tower with it.

On the site you show, i'm not sure if this is dutch for polyurethane. Make sure that is the right material before order (might even be better), and I don't think picking a prefab round shape is really helping. Starting on a plate, you sure the hole will stay at exact center without even think about it and its just 1 min extra work. The thin ikea plate I used was for small parts, more like washers. so it doesn't really matter as long as it was better than rubber. Make sure you have the right material and of similar thickness as the original rubber part.

oh and btw, as this thread its about shocks, got nice surprise on the 71 this weekend, discovered its having nice Koni's in front and back. They look and react as new, just under a huge layer of dirt.

 

[Vinnie]

Congrats on the konis

Polyethylene is not Dutch for polyurethane. They are two different plastics. The first one is what the ikea board is made of and it goes soft just under 70C or 90C. This sounds scary when used as a shock bushing.

Polyurethane does not deform under higher temperatures so that’s the material I wanna use. But that’s not what the ikea board is made of...

 

[Fabrice]

I can't say for the IKEA, for the washers like I used it for, the ikea plates you see on picts are very thin. like 7 mm. very flexible.

For the upper tower I never had any probs and don't expect any ever. it didn't change a bit and remains as new. Its using the much thicker plate.

I don't expect any temp diff there either because its inner diameter is exactly the shaft diameter. no play to potentially generate friction either.

That having said, I did test them only like 4 to 5 years on the road before park the car, did not drive to the extreme either.

I made the front bushings of my t-bird 91, drove like 10 years daily 70kms, also using this plate, same, they never squeezed, created vibs or degraded.

If you have doubts, you could pick a plastic that meets the temp requirements you want and use that instead. Safety first!

or swallow and order the black ones from summit

 

[Vinnie]

I’ll look into this more later. Your solution is nice, I like it. Bit like you said I need the car to be safe.

The higher temp could come from the engine btw, not friction. Even if not that high it can still wear out the plastic.

Anyway; to be continued

 

[tony-muscle]

So this is what happens when trying to order from overseas, great....

Fabrice: you mentioned you made them yourself. How did you do that?

I will be travelling to Europe in 10 days. Not to Netherlands, but these are small enough that I could bring them with me and drop them in the mail if that works for you. As long as you guys need small parts, and there won't be a problem with customs I can bring them. The customs issue can be fixed by removing the packaging. Just PM me if interested. I will be happy to help any fellow 7173 members.