NEW UPDATE:12/08/16 - pulling heads MORE QUESTIONS!

[Jeff73Mach1]

While I see the issue others are concerned about, I sure wouldn't pull and rebuild a fairly fresh engine over those issues without rebuilding the heads and putting it all together properly with fresh gaskets. Again, the shortblock may be imperfect, but I'd bet it will perform well with just the minimum work. And I'd bet the price of the upper gaskets

 

[mjlan]

I'm with you Jeff: if after tearing into an engine that the seller has told you is 'rebuilt' (because it doesn't seem to be right), and you find questionable things (suspect bore wear, possible valve seat wear), one is faced with either putting it back together and crossing ones fingers or shrugging and beginning a full rebuild.

My comments were along the lines of the seller claims the motor was rebuilt, but looking at the parts does not suppport that claim.

I also second David's point, rebuilt means two different things to two different people. I a Galaxie with a 'freshened' engine. To me that means gone through and re-ringed and re-sealed, but to him it meant hosed down with spray paint...

Bob- your engine does look really clean under the valve covers though!

 

[Stanglover]

the reason I was taking the heads of is because I had low compression in a couple cylinders.... the worst being the 3rd one from the front. After a leakdown test I came up with the conclusion that the exhaust valve was the problem. This engine was supposedly built shortly before I bought it but it did sit for about 4 years before I ran it and it smoked mainly out of passenger side. After pulling the head I don't see much with the initial look at the head:chin:...

The engine does seem really clean. The honing in the cylinder doesn't look like it has many miles.

Does anything jump out at you all when looking at these new pictures?

Can anyone tell if this has hardened seats by the picture?

I have never rebuilt a Cleveland.....what is the deal with the intake gasket like this? looks like a heat shield?

Sorry, I had a comment, which I deleted, but on checking the casting number for the intake, I realized this is a 2V engine. I was assuming it was a 4V. My bad!! Looks like it needs a proper rebuild as suggested, the only way to know what you've got. Good luck!

 

[Paul of MO]

From what I can make out and for what it is worth:

This engine does not have hardened seats

The exhaust valves are sunk into the heads

If you do not have the correct valve covers from a 1969 or early 1970 351C that have the metal tangs welded to the inside then the rocker fulcrums are scored due to lack of oil deflectors - this will cause a very slight ticking sound over time.

The cylinder walls have been hit with a 3 stone hone - the hatching is the correct angle but is not complete. They needed to keep the hone spinning longer. This is keeping the new rings from seating if new rings were installed and would cause oil smoke. If the old rings were reused then the new cross hatch would allow blow by and again you will have oil smoke

Best of luck - looks like you will get to rebuild your engine. actually pretty easy and fun!

- Paul

 

[barnett468]

.

ok, it looks like the piston tops and top ring on the cylinder have at least 30,000 miles of carbon on them if not more like 80,000.

your hone marks suggest that it was not done by a professionals.

a sunken valve seat is often not replaced when someone does a cheap "rebuild with the intent of selling a car. . burned seats are often simply ground away until hey will seal long enough for the check to clear the bank . . grinding them until they seal again sinks them even further.

after the valve job is done, the tip height should be measured then ground until they are in spec which also rarely happens with a budget rebuild.

as paul mentioned, the chamber you posted a photo of does NOT have seats in it . the outer rings you see are production machining marks

All heavily sunken seats must be replaced . . there is no other correct option.

if the place that replaces them is not very good, they can fall out . . i sink then around .005" to .010" below the chamber surface and install them with red loctite then stake them buy putting several punch marks around the outside . . the staking pushes the metal over the edge of the seat so it is virtually impossible for them to fall out.

 

[4Vforever]

After reading of your dramas with your engine and quick look through the replies, I'd have to say that your engine has definitely not had a proper recondition as such and looks to me as quick slap together to sell a car, or as we use to call them: car yard rebuild. There are a few things I've seen, most of which I'd say have been pointed out, but not seeing it in person and only seeing in pictures can look heaps different. As for what to do, I'm not really sure as I don't know of your budget on getting your car running again. The simplest and easiest way might be, get a good pair of used cylinder heads, where the valves seat proud (yours are sunk too far and look at the "burn" mark on that ex valve) and don't leak (fill ports with kero and leave overnight) or have you heads reconditioned with new valves and inserts on the exhaust side. Another possibility is maybe using a 4V exhaust valve as it may machine out enough for the valve to seat proud. If the intakes are looking iffy, use a valve that's 2.08-2.1 in diameter, don't use a 4V intake valve (can be done) as they're really too big on a 2V head.

Realistically, I personally think the engine should be gone right through and everything measured and checked, but as I said, I don't know your budget or what you're willing to spend on getting it running again. If the engine was fine besides the loss in compression (looks like head gasket blown between 2 cylinders in the pic, but hard to tell without being there) then maybe go with what I stated above about the heads and see if that'll get you out of trouble.

On the exhaust inserts, I don't know what the dramas are about running them. Personally I have inserted hundreds maybe even a thousand plus heads without dramas, everything from daily drivers to full on race engines with none falling out or even springing a leak from slightly hitting a water jacket. I just use to give the insert .005-.008in crush, freeze the insert, a bit of loctite, press or "drive" in the insert then pressure test for atleast an hour at 60-75 psi. No pinning of the insert, nothing extra at all and never had a problem with any of them.

Anyway best of luck with it and hope it all works for you and doesn't become too costly for you. As has been said, what one person considers rebuilt is another persons slap together, unfortunately.

 

[barnett468]

The pob with the inserts is when someone whom does not know what the are doing installs them . . i have had them fall out on two different cars i owned when the engines got a little too warm . . i did not install them and none of the ones installed ever fell out . . i also know other people that had them fall out . . not all people that install them have the same knowledge, skill or quality of tool.