NPD Greed

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I need some fender skins and the shipping is crazy. I am in RI and don't have a place that I can drive to pick them up. I don't blame the companies that sell them but rather the mess our country is in with the shipping costs. Hopefully, things will normalize in the next couple of years.
 
For what it’s worth....my philosophical view
in my mind, we all have a choice to buy or not buy...
if I think shipping or the price is too high, then I won‘t buy the product (I only look at the final cost to my door)
Let’s assume for a second, that everyone (or more and more peeps) revolt and refuse to buy...the reduction in sales & shipping volumes should indicate to the sellers/shippers that they are overpriced and are losing business as a result.
The dynamics of supply and demand should, in theory, lower prices but could also run the risk of putting companies out of business.
I agree that the model is broken, but at least if we need the parts, we can still get most of them.
((full-disclosure: 10 years ago, as a Canadian, I used to buy on a consistent basis from epay, and other sources, but given the costs, I have gradually reduced purchases, to the point it is a rare event for me to do so now).
I guess it is a matter of letting the strong suppliers survive.
 
Sometimes, not every NPD store has what you want in stock; many times my orders come not from the closest facility.
Sorry but in this case the salesperson confirmed that the springs would be shipping out of Canton, MI facility to me in West Chester. Which for them, was opportunity to gouge on the shipping and net more $$.
 
Honestly about 80% of my purchases have been from NPD because they are 2 miles from the house. But there are still instances when I buy from CJ Pony, Kentucky Mustang and even E-Bay sellers once in a while. Spent close to ten grand just on body parts and supplies so far.
 
Just my opinion, but I would just make sure that in doing any comparisons we stay apples-to-apples. It’s true that often one can get a cheaper rate if looking simply at shipping cost from a carrier’s location, once you have cushioned it and boxed it up, then drove to their location at your own time and expense.

There is a cost to all that beyond just retail packaging and the cost from the carrier. As someone who can drive to one of NPD’s locations, I would prefer if they did not spread the shipping and handling into the product price. When I go pick up products there, they are in retail packaging mostly, not ready to survive shipping.

So, respectfully, I am cool if one still sees the end result as high and I won’t dispute it, but I think at least you have to consider everything all in. I personally have found in the past that NPD has better product prices on many items, but if you are getting just one small thing, the shipping can be as much as the item. It balances out the more you buy for sure, even before the free-shipping hurdle. So I try to buy multiple items from them. In general if I just need a single item I would go to CJs, who tend to have a higher unit price but less shipping... though then I find far more backorders and less helpful (though not entirely unhelpful) customer service. Have had tremendous customer satisfaction with Ohio Mustang as well, but they carry less items and can have the same single small item shipping problem as well.
 
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If the Fed hikes interest rates even a quarter % this coming week, shipping costs will become the least of our concerns. I have been in a spending on hobbies holding pattern for a while. I am thinking that will be my course of action for the next 2 years. Not a joke.
 
If the Fed hikes interest rates even a quarter % this coming week, shipping costs will become the least of our concerns. I have been in a spending on hobbies holding pattern for a while. I am thinking that will be my course of action for the next 2 years. Not a joke.
You aren't the only one Ron. What with higher interest on credit cards and then the exchange rate is killing me as it is for other Canadians. Fortunately in my case, the car is done, just maintenance costs..... for now.
If anyone is the crook, it's UPS as they still (as of the last time I had something shipped by them) charge brokerage fees, plus in Ontario, 13% tax ON TOP. That's the main reason I don't have anything shipped. That said, driving over to Canton NPD is getting damned expensive too. The toll rates for the bridge go up and up.
Bottom line; if you need it bad enough, ship it, if not find another way, like a road trip and make it fun.
 
You aren't the only one Ron. What with higher interest on credit cards and then the exchange rate is killing me as it is for other Canadians. Fortunately in my case, the car is done, just maintenance costs..... for now.
If anyone is the crook, it's UPS as they still (as of the last time I had something shipped by them) charge brokerage fees, plus in Ontario, 13% tax ON TOP. That's the main reason I don't have anything shipped. That said, driving over to Canton NPD is getting damned expensive too. The toll rates for the bridge go up and up.
Bottom line; if you need it bad enough, ship it, if not find another way, like a road trip and make it fun.
You guys in Canada have it tough. Road trips can be fun. We go to Vermont to see my mother in law regularly. Things will hopefully turn around in this mad World. God speed.

Ron
 
I'm on a cell phone, so can't thumb a proper defense until Monday. "Rapacious and Greedy"?? We take a 6-figure loss on shipping.. MONTHLY. Companies who charge shipping at a loss compensate with product pricing, it's a shell game. And I can't tell you how many years and thousands we invested in those correct flat-coil springs.

Shipping has indeed become outrageous. But that is to fund-forward the capacity to shoulder our world's obsession with shipping everything to their doorstep.

I've been doing this for 40 years now. First time I've been accused of being a virtual rapist.

I can break it down better when I can type.

Rick
NPD
Eh, don't worry about it Rick. You'll never please everyone no matter what you do. I keep a spreadsheet of 12 suppliers comparing total prices including shipping for my car. I've purchased over 30 items so far including large body parts and only 4 pieces were purchased somewhere other than NPD. The other place had a piece that NPD didn't and I needed to order the other three items to get free shipping. Other than that, even with shipping NPD has been the lowest overall price for everything other than freight items. So, I saved $700 freight shipping cost on my NPD order by picking up all my items. I saved $1,000 over the next lowest priced vendor with shipping. NPD for the win again!
 
NPD is just greedy. I wanted to purchase a pair of hood springs for my Mach1. I don't take issue with the price of the springs. Taking in consideration the manufacturing costs vs the limited number of buyers, they are quite reasonable. But the $32 shipping charge is ludicrous. This was quoted over the phone by Brad. (BTW the NPD website said $29.65?) I also take umbrage with the "offer" of spending more to reach a total $300 to get free shipping. If I had wanted to spend over $300 that would have been my choice. I’m not going to be coerced into adding to my order just to avoid their outrageous shipping fees.

Just for giggles, I looked up the cost to send a package, at retail rates, weighing a guesstimated 12#. (I’m fairly certain NPD gets a better rate than retail). From Canton, Michigan to West Chester, OH would cost $17.88
So, retail cost at UPS - $17+ NPD /UPS - $32.00+

Luckily, I don't need the springs that bad! But evidently NPD needs that extra $15 real bad. LOL

I am not a cheapskate but I do like to be judicious with the $$ I have to spend on my hobby. That includes not being “jabbed” with excessive shipping rates.

OK I've managed to waste time that should have been used to work on my car. But this kinda put a burr under my saddle.

Alright, now that I'm at my desk and have access to a keyboard and information....

Our shipping rates are calculated based upon a percentage of the value of your order. $12.95 is the minimum (which really doesn't cover our average cost across the various zones), and beyond that it's calculated at 16% of your order's value. Above $300, we foot the bill and absorb the shipping cost. And that is a REALLY big deal. Yes, I understand that you don't always have $300 in parts to order every time. But I'd wager that anyone who's done a restoration with NPD, over time, large orders and small, you are way ahead on shipping expenses big-picture.

And indeed, some of the free-shipping incentive is capitalized by us making some of that back on the smaller orders where shipping is charged. It has to, otherwise we could never hope to afford the $300 incentive. We'd have to either 1. Not offer it, or 2. Compensate for the enormous losses by inflating the prices of the parts. Either way, you pay, there's no such thing as "free", it's all a mirage.

So every company in this industry, including all of NPD's competitors, have developed their own recipe of "balance" between shipping costs, shipping rate structure, and parts pricing, that allows them to be viable and not fly into the side of the mountain financially. One company might look super cheap on shipping, but they're likely higher on the parts. Or they're sourcing cheaper/lesser quality parts. Or they're a mom/pop running on a shoe-string with hardly any inventory, overhead, no employee benefits, and no wiggle-room to offer you service after the sale if something's not right.

It's always going to be something, because competitive pressures force it to be so. There's no magic dust that would allow one single company to perpetually have the cheapest shipping, cheapest prices, best quality, strongest inventory, best service, adequate sales staff, and best service after the sale if there's a claim or issue. Heck, we (NPD) often allow returns/exchanges on parts that were purchased 5-10 years ago. That's the strength we have that affords us the ability to have your back.

And here's where I'll share proprietary financial information. We run on a July-June fiscal year. Thus-far, this year (since July 2022, 8 months on the books), we have absorbed a net-LOSS on shipping (i.e. what we charge for shipping versus what we pay-out for shipping) of $850,000... We'll have taken a loss of well over $1-million by the time June 30th arrives. Thank goodness we sell enough parts to cover that loss, or we'd be cooked. It's a cost of doing business these days.

Of course, no one complains when the prices are fair, the parts are in-stock and best-quality, the sales people answer the phones directly (no computerized hold-queue), the sales force is tenured and experienced due to low-turnover (because we pay them well), the orders are shipped complete within 24 hours, and any damages/defects/returns are accommodated with a smile. But a $29.65 shipping fee on a $185 pair of concours flat oval wire hood springs that we must have spent over 2 years getting the tooling done for and perfecting?? We're greedy, arrogant rapists? Hell, when we purchased the two NOS springs that we used for benchmarking, they were $450 EACH. That was the going market for them back then. So if we were greedy rapists, wouldn't we be charging more than $92.65/each? Especially given the fact that I was just on the phone with my Ford Product Manager, and we were half laughing half crying that "they seemed like a good idea (the springs) at the time, but now I'm wondering if we'll ever make our investment back, ever.."..

Yes, I'll agree with you, $29.65 is more than our actual cost for shipping the springs. But if we did it differently, it would completely blow-up a shipping algorithm that has worked and proven popular for decades. There is no way to charge "actual" on every sale, because there's no practical way to quote accurate shipping in advance, online, before the parts ever hit the shipping workstation. Even if you have the weights and dimensions tabled, there is no way for a website to anticipate "how to pack" an order of restoration parts. A hood molding and a brake drum cannot be packed in the same box. Compatibility and care are not something we can write a computer program for, and nor do our competitors, we all face the same realities.

I'm sorry I'm blathering and blabbering so long!! LOL... Just a few last details.

1. I don't know why Brad would have quoted $32, because it comes up $29.65 in our operating system, just like the web. Did you add another item or two to the order that would've increased things?

2. Everyone, be advised that UPS neglects to break-out online the following: Fuel Surcharge, Delivery Area Surcharge, Residential Surcharge.. These surcharges frequently layer another $7-$8 bucks onto our bill.

Last, this is my first time here in awhile, but I do want to thank EVERYONE for your past business, and for the words of support on this thread and others. I appreciate it. I hope this post explains some dynamics that might not be readily apparent from your side of the screen, and I hope that my tone and temperament are taken as I intended, and that I didn't come off too argumentative. But I've gotta tell ya, when someone starts calling me a greedy rapist, that gets my attention.

Rick Schmidt
NPD
 
I stand by my post. They are rapacious and arrogant. Customer service? Ha!
Re: I stand by my post. They are rapacious and arrogant. Customer service? That's how Snap On treats customers who are no longer regulars on their trucks. I must have 10k worth of their tools and am met with arrogance and questions when I try to replace one. I've now waited 6 months to replace a 130.00 1/2" ratcheting adapter. I gave up and bought an old proto. Maybe I can sell my broken Snap on one on Ebay for 50.00 & get some money back. No other tool manufacturer has treated me like Crap on. I have a toolbox drawer full of their broken and no longer issued items. None of their plastics stand the test of time and they do not replace them.
 
@Rick@NPD,
As mentioned before, the problem I have, living in Canada, is NOT with NPD's shipping rates, but with UPS policies of charging brokerage and added taxes on anything coming into Canada. That's nothing you (NPD) can control other than switching shipping companies and even then, I'm not sure FedEx for example, has not started that practice as well.
UPS were sued in a class action suit for charging unnecessary fees on smaller amount orders and lost. I personally have received at least two checks from the law firm involved.
However, being charged due taxes on imports is one thing and that is acceptable of course, but brokerage is something else. I can see that being necessary for a large invoiced amount, but on something worth 50 bucks or so, is just wrong.
As for your explanation above, first class.
 
While I don't have anything of real value to add, one way or the other, I certainly appreciate the ability to have open and thoughtful discussions this site. I also appreciate a vendor who will interact with the "regular joe" customer in an open forum. There's no doubt it helps earn business, keep business and build business where we all can benefit from it. I trust and need vendors like Rick and NPD to continue to enjoy the hobby that I love. And, no doubt times are tough, all we have is each other. I'll take that any day over the other mess going on in all our worlds.
 
Just adding a few thoughts to this discussion. I appreciate the open dialog where we can learn the different aspects. Having the vendor involved is invaluable for all of us, and for the actual vendor so they can understand the customer's perspective. I have purchased from NPD a few times with no issues. If I don't like the shipping costs and their parts are more expensive then I go somewhere else. I think their customer service is very good. One time I was asking questions via email and they offered a very constructive answer with another solution outside NPD.
So my constructive thoughts involve one for each side.
First, no need to use violent/insulting language when expressing an opinion. Let's keep the discussion civil.
Second, I would agree that the shipping cost for such item is high. From the customer perspective, if you are selling something so custom-made as these springs, I suggest you charge more for the actual spring and less for shipping. Whatever you do, customers will always look at the shipping cost and in this case it is high. I understand that the shipping is calculated automatically based on a percentage but for lighter expensive products it may not come across as a good thing. I know this may be difficult, but if you could, maybe you can modify your algorithm to consider shipping weight as part of the equation. There may be some cheaper heavy parts where you lose. If I am buying something cheap but heavy/bulky I would be more keen to pay more for shipping. Like purchasing a 24x24 sheet of plastic. Light but bulky.
 
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Tony mentions purchasing a sheet of plastic 24 x24. Light but bulky.
As many of you know by now, I designed and make headlight water shields to fit Hella and Cibie conversion headlights for when LED bulbs are used (or the supplied halogen bulbs) for our 71-73 Mustangs. At first I bought pieces of plastic sheet off Amazon and got free shipping. However, that supplier "ran out of stock", so I looked elsewhere to purchase 4'x8' sheets of 1/16" ABS. I found two suppliers in Ontario. One said they could only ship by transport truck as they had to cut the sheet and ship on a 4'x4' pallet. I don't remember what the cost was, but far higher than the cost of the plastic. Then I found another company who said they could just roll the sheet, box it and ship it via CanPar. It cost me $45 from Toronto to near Windsor. That was a great deal. That company get's my business from now on
My point, shipping costs matter, but in this case, one company was prepared to think out of the box, or more correctly think IN the box and find a better shipping solution.
 
Just adding a few thoughts to this discussion. I appreciate the open dialog where we can learn the different aspects. Have the vendor involved is invaluable for all of us, and for the actual vendor so they can understand the customer's perspective. I have purchased from NPD a few times with no issues. If I don't like the shipping costs and their parts are more expensive then I go somewhere else. I think their customer service is very good. One time I was asking questions via email and they offered a very constructive answer with another solution outside NPD.
So my constructive thoughts involve one for each side.
First, no need to use violent/insulting language when expressing an opinion. Let's keep the discussion civil.
Second, I would agree that the shipping cost for such item is high. From the customer perspective, if you are selling something so custom-made as these springs, I suggest you charge more for the actual spring and less for shipping. Whatever you do, customers will always look at the shipping cost and in this case it is high. I understand that the shipping is calculated automatically based on a percentage but for lighter expensive products it may not come across as a good thing. I know this may be difficult, but if you could, maybe you can modify your algorithm to consider shipping weight as part of the equation. There may be some cheaper heavy parts where you lose. If I am buying something cheap but heavy/bulky I would be more keen to pay more for shipping. Like purchasing a 24x24 sheet of plastic. Light but bulky.

Hi Tony,

First, thank you for the kind words. Please allow me to make a couple of points regarding your comments/suggestions..

* As I alluded to earlier, it's tough for one company to have the lowest overall costs and the best quality all at once. But one thing I would caution everyone here on is the common urban myth that "all parts are made by the same manufacturers, so just buy on price".. Swallowing that myth, and falling for that line, is the worst mistake you can make. It is SO much more complicated than that. We (NPD) currently source from over 1,100 different manufacturers and suppliers. And since classic 65-73 Mustang is the most robust and competitive restoration parts market on earth, there are thousands of cases where 2, 3 or even 4+ factories/toolings are competing, the quality/correctness/fit of which varying from one to the next. So it's a falsehood that it's all the same. SOMETIMES yes, and especially in 71-73 stuff where the volumes/demands are lower than say 65-66, there is just one reproduction on the market. But don't bank on that. Simple things like factory wiring harnesses, there's the gold standard of Alloy Metal Products (which is what we carry), and then there's that other stuff (I won't name names) that doesn't hold a candle. But it runs the gamut, from upholstery to weatherstripping to chassis to floor patches to everything in-between. We've spent over 4 decades refining our sourcing to "best-available", and sometimes where significantly cheaper (poorer) alternatives exist, we carry both, as a choice for the budget-stressed enthusiast. So... I just wanted to make that point, it's frequently not an apples/apples comparison.

* I can't set a higher price, and a lower shipping, for just one item. The computer program doesn't work that way. Whatever the shipping rate algorithm is, it applies to all 140,000+ items we carry. We can't possibly go through and set specific pre-set shipping rates on 140,000+ different items. It'd be an unholy mess. If I changed our percentage/factor from 16% back down to 10% (which is what it used to be 10+ years ago before shipping costs headed to the moon), I would have to raise the price of EVERYTHING by 6% to compensate. The frustrating thing is that people would probably cheer the cheaper shipping, not notice the 6% higher prices, and have zero idea that they're paying exactly the same net-total. All "free shipping on ALL orders" online retailers accomplish it by burying the shipping into the retail prices, where it's 100% hidden, and you just don't realize that you're paying every last penny of that freight... A $20 widget shipped free is really a $10 widget that's been pumped up to $20.

We are not expecting shipping to level-out any time soon. All of the carriers, including USPS, are having to invest so much into infrastructure, planes, trucks and distribution hubs, trying to get out in front of the world's addiction to having every last thing shipped (for "free", which as I said isn't really true), that they are hitting us hard so that they can generate that capital.

Rick
NPD
 
Shipping of goods are very expensive, I will agree with that.

However, I am temped to buy a extra set of hood springs for each of my cars, just to show support to a company like NPD that took the time and invested the money it took just to make them available To the hundreds if not thousands of people that changed their hoods and now need to modify the springs to keep it up.

Bottom line, shipping is high and if you don’t want to pay for it then don’t. Good luck finding what you want or need in your local salvage yard.
 
@ric@NPD
Here is my not quite complete 71. This car is rebuilt with 90% NPD parts, so it’s an NPD Mustang! It would not exist as a restored car without your company. Thanks for supporting all of us!
 

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When I bought my car the drivers hood hinge still had the flat coil spring on it but the passenger hinge had a round one. I installed the NPD spring on the passenger hinge and it was identical to the original one to my eye. I appreciate that they are willing to make these parts for our cars and I understand that shipping is more expensive than it used to be.
 

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Well for all my American friends who feel that shipping cost are getting out of hand, try this on for size.
Today I needed to mail out a set of my Hella headlight water shields by Canada Post to an address in Canada. The package weighed less than 3 oz, but I guess size matters and it was only a small padded envelope. The cost was $22 Cdn. That of course includes "fuel surcharge" and tax. By contrast, and don't ask me why, it only cost a little over $16 Cdn to mail the same package to the US the last time I shipped a set. That too may have changed by now, but I hope not.
Now, I sell the parts for the least I can to cover my costs. I'm not in it to make money per se, but the cost of mail (I charge the exact, or as close as possible) could kill any chance I have of more orders. (See my ad in the "For Sale" section of the forum) I hope not, but its frustrating as hell that mail/shipping costs, dictate whether a person buys a product or not and personally, I don't blame them.
Still, any mail or shipping cost will usually be far cheaper overall, than a road trip to go pick up the product or parts.
 
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