Pilot bearing for Toploader 4 snout

[Higgins56]

Hi,

I have  71  Mach 1 with  a new  429 engine, D7... bellhouse and RUG-AJ ( 1969 Fairline  with 428 engine)  Toploader 4 and  a Mc Leod  1300 hydraulic  bearing + RST clutch.

When installing the new engine and tranny  we  noticed that maybe the  snout  ( 17 mm ) of the Toploader input  shaft does not reach the original pilot bearing  ( 14 mm in length that  goes completely into the opening reserved for it at the crank end) and made a new one with the same length  + 8 mm collar that is supposed to  support the snout better.

The installation was done without problems but later my mechanic said that the crank should not get ANY pressure / push from the  trannys side which made us put 1 mm shims between the bell house and tranny - just for the piece of mind...

This pressure might come from the toploaders snout's collar that could hit the  pilot bearing ...

My intension is to take shims off after  dismantling the  tranny and  clutch assembly and dimensioning / measuring the  components once more and maybe making a new pilot bearing  with less dimension ( 4 mm?)  and possibly without the collar...

Does anybody know how much support is enough for the  toploader input shaft and does the  pilot bearing (  red metal = grease bronze) need to be greased when assembled  or  is it supposed to run "dry".

Also did the  bell house dimension vary from 71 to 77 to make an issue ?

 

[Thomas]

Bellhousings that will be used with a Toploader must measure 6 1/4" deep. If it measures 6 3/4" deep it is a truck bellhousing and should not be used.

 

[Higgins56]

Thanks for your comment.

The code for the present bellhousing is D7 TA 7505 AD there is also stamped F306

Is this a truck one

 

[clevelandcoupe]

Higgins,

I had the same issue with the pilot bearing you are describing. I found with my 1980's truck 460 that the crank snout was machined with two steps, one for the torque converter and a deeper one for the pilot bearing. I was able to find a pilot bearing from Ford that fit in the first step, typically reserved for the torque converter that resolved the depth issue of the truck verses car bell housings.

 

[Higgins56]

HI

and thanks for your comment.

Is it so that the bearing is the only issue to make it dimensionally right to use the truck bellhousing instead of the original 69-71 housing ?

If so that would be a relief - just to find the right measure - or the place where to buy the said bearing you are talking about.

I do have that red bronze metal to machine a new bearing. As said the original was a cylindrical 14 mm thick without any collar to support the assembly.

Any part number for that Ford spares ?

 

[Higgins56]

Bellhousings that will be used with a Toploader must measure 6 1/4" deep. If it measures 6 3/4" deep it is a truck bellhousing and should not be used.

Hi again,

Why should it ( truck bell housing)  not be used ?

Will the Toploader input shaft be too far regarding the support ( as we figured out already) ?

So to increase the support an extra length for the bearing 6 3/4" - 6 1/4 " = 12.7 mm should  handle the  matter ?

This would mean  double length for the  bearing . The current  machined bearing  is 8 mm thicker than the original so it should not be too long...

What do you say ?

 

[Thomas]

Bellhousings that will be used with a Toploader must measure 6 1/4" deep. If it measures 6 3/4" deep it is a truck bellhousing and should not be used.

Hi again,

Why should it ( truck bell housing)  not be used ?

Will the Toploader input shaft be too far regarding the support ( as we figured out already) ?

So to increase the support an extra length for the bearing 6 3/4" - 6 1/4 " = 12.7 mm should  handle the  matter ?

This would mean  double length for the  bearing . The current  machined bearing  is 8 mm thicker than the original so it should not be too long...

What do you say ?

Found that info on David Kee´s page !

I bought a Boss 429 bell hausing and got no problem.

I Always prefer the right stuff to avoid any problems.

// Thomas

 

[Higgins56]

Bellhousings that will be used with a Toploader must measure 6 1/4" deep. If it measures 6 3/4" deep it is a truck bellhousing and should not be used.

Hi again,

Why should it ( truck bell housing)  not be used ?

Will the Toploader input shaft be too far regarding the support ( as we figured out already) ?

So to increase the support an extra length for the bearing 6 3/4" - 6 1/4 " = 12.7 mm should  handle the  matter ?

This would mean  double length for the  bearing . The current  machined bearing  is 8 mm thicker than the original so it should not be too long...

What do you say ?

Found that info on David Kee´s page !

I bought a Boss 429 bell hausing and got no problem.

I Always prefer the right stuff to avoid any problems.

// Thomas

I  appreciate your attitude.

Where are these correct  early 429 bellhousings available in a shop  ? In e-bay I found one.

Would PG Larsson  sell these in Tibruk ?

 

[Thomas]

Do not think PG has any. But ask him. Maybe I know about one here in Sweden. Was offered to buy it a few years ago. Can hear if it is still for sale.

// Thomas

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

I have never done a 429 but on other Ford products I have replaced the oilite bronze bearing with a real ball bearing for the pilot. Much more support.

BTW I would not put any grease on the gearing will just get thrown onto the clutch, not good.

 

[Higgins56]

Do not think PG has any. But ask him. Maybe I know about one here in Sweden. Was offered to buy it a few years ago. Can hear if it is still for sale.

// Thomas

Thanks Thomas,

 would be interesting to hear if its available.

 

[Thomas]

Unfortunately, it was sold!

// Thomas