the curse of the blown transmissions strikes again

[72HCODE]

that is actually a REALLY good kit from the research on what is included. they still don't give you all the bushings but they give you the most probability worn parts needed in a rebuild.

also they have shift kits for the FMX which is cool.

you know all those dreams you have about building up a super trans, they kind of stop when each upgrade is 250-390$ a piece.

like if you changed the servo, manual valve body, internal upgrades, man before you know it you could have 2000$ in parts and a messed up trans from too much playing around.

I'm debating if i should get into shift kits for my C6 project.

 

[72HCODE]

Picked up the 72 c6 today.

I started to take some stuff off it. Ordered a master kit and will be getting into the trans soon.

It appears to be in good shape.

I will need to plug up some stuff on the case since i won't be using it. I will be using my fmx nuetral safety so in removing the c6 switch I found I need to plug a screw hole up.

 

[72HCODE]

update:

digging into the replacement 72 c6 last night... (this is not my blown c6 that is still in the car this is a replacement correct year transmission)

just about what i figured:

* Pulled the Torque convertor, the bushing face was gouged, that means, pump is going to suffer...

* the pan was awful, a LOT of clutch material, metal inside, it was like wet sand paper, not good for bushings.

* the inside the trans looks like it was burnt, everything was coated in clutch garbage, i tried to wipe it off and it took brake and electrical cleaner to make a mark in it. the Stuff is everywhere it was pretty bad.

(have to figure out how to clean everything it will not be easy)

* valve body is Covered in crap the filter was totally clogged and full of garbage

* attempted to measure end play of trans, spec is .22 to .44 this thing was .60 and beyond.

* started disassembly:

Input shaft is toast. 190$

Pump is toast bushing and gear damage. 77$

Clutches were not fused but worn.

2nd gear Band toast.

thrust washers looked OK no broken tabs.

The sprang was toast. about 70$

the internals looked ok, but everything is coated in garbage and i need to clean the soot off to get a clean look at the parts.

got the rear of the trans. pulled the tail housing, bushing is toast, seal is toast. 30$

found a plastic bag wrapped around the speedo cable gear on the tail shaft,(awesome)

Governor appeared ok not seized.

got down to the oil distribution housing and had a pickle of a time getting it free, got it removed and the tubes everything is caked in garbage and soot. got the parking paw engager out

then called it a night.

tools required to make repairs... additional 1000$+

i made like 4 tool orders, i actually saved a ton of money trying to source rebuilt parts. even had to order from Australia to get some stuff.

joy.

up next complete disassembly and then power washing and figuring out how to clean off the soot on everything safely.

 

[72HCODE]

Power washing was pretty much a failure.

I finished taking everything out.

i tried using engine bright on the case had ZERO effect even using a brush

i tried aluminum rim cleaner that had a very slight effect and was pretty worthless.

Brake cleaner had the largest effect which was tiny even with the brush.

you cannot use most of the dips on the market because they eat aluminum, simple green eats aluminum as well.

up next acetone attempt. and a couple other cleaners.

Brake clean seems to work better on the steel parts inside the trans, the aluminum is porous and so all the soot is VERY hard to get rid of.

 

[72HCODE]

Saturday update:

#1 if you want to clean your transmission use ACETONE, it works freaking amazing.

use a stiff brush and have a bunch of clean cloths like micromesh next to you, it will eat up all that trans soot junk and clean the aluminum almost as well as glass beads.

----

bad news, as i cleaned all the crap off the replacement trans i found the tail housing was cracked, possible car accident damage.

the main shaft is also on the bad side of worn out.

so i'm stuck again for the moment.

 

[clevelandcoupe]

I think I know someone who has a few units available !!!

Let me know.

Thanks, Jay

 

[72HCODE]

Update:

Half way through stage 1 , the tranmission rebuild.

Clevelandcoupe gave me a 73 c6 after the 72 trans turned out to be a dud.

Had to replace some thrust washers, and rebuilt the speed govenor which was gummed up.

Had some issues with my assembly that required I start over one time.

Apparently there are major issues with the rebuild books on the market lots of mistakes and overlooks. The vide I got from bad shoe productions has been very very good.

I spent last week cleaning the case, power washed it two times and gave it a acetone bath.

Cleaned up the oil distributor , new seals on everything. Changed the servo and lever to a better set.

Changed the tail bushing and seal.

Basically I have the entire front half of the trans to work on now including the pump.

Phew I'm tired worked all day since 9am on it.

 

[71coupe]

keep up the work!!! I haven't done anything to my car...been raining...then more rain...then more rain.

 

[Dave73]

3000 stall converter, B&M ratchet shift, ect. BUT when you stomp on the gas with close to 600HP , it makes ya really nervous about the C4!!

Sounds like it's time to think about a 2 speed power glide swap for you.

3k stall, 600hp, if you run at the track your time will do much better with 2 speed PG. They make adapters.

 

[72HCODE]

Worked on the transmission for 3 days over the long weekend.

Found some more damage in the forward clutch.

Found damage to the valve body. The previous transmission work somebody screwed up the torque specs on the valve body. I had to repair lots of messed up bolt threads.

It was gummed up as well.

Finished the valve body rebuild, finished the basic direct clutch and forward clutch rebuild.

Discovered the rebuild kit I bought provided the wrong clutches.

Had to order some more tools I need to rebuild the pump.

Hopefully by next week I will have the new clutches and tools to complete the rebuild.

 

[Dave73]

If mine goes out while it's still a daily driver I'll be looking for a 4 speed OD tranny to go in there.

Any one done that yet?

 

[Qcode351mach]

If mine goes out while it's still a daily driver I'll be looking for a 4 speed OD tranny to go in there.

Any one done that yet?

See my build thread ..did the 4r70w Best move ever !

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-green-72-fastback-former-429-460

Also a quick video of some of the tuning features

 

[72HCODE]

Another update.

So the 73 trans and the 72 trans both had 3 pack clutches, For the forward and direct clutches.

I have been messing around with the clearances for 2 weeks now, I even bought .085 and .095 snap rings, stock is .075 and the tolerances are still too loose.

I opened up that 1980s c6 and it has the late model 4 pack clutches with anti clunk design, with the parts I have I might be able to make them 5 pack clutches. I figure it's worth a shot since I have to wait for even thicker snap rings.

the bushings look good but I will clean them up and rebuild them and see what I have. Issues: I bought older rebuild kits and the seals are different on the later model stuff.

So I may need to get the seals and a special seal install cover for one of the Pistons.

I could finish the 3 pack clutches as they are sitting on my bench basically complete except for thicker snap rings, or wait and go for a better stronger setup.

Most likely my blown trans has 4 clutches and not 3,3 and 4 like the replacement.

 

[72HCODE]

getting no where fast:

the latest update. using the Red alto Edge clutches during the rebuild is proving to be a major problem as well.

Here is what i'm learning Performance verse longevity, the red alto clutches are more setup for going 1/4 mile at a time and not for putting mileage on the car.

They give you Kolene Steel plate with the red eagles. Kolene steel is steel that has been salt bathed giving it a black surface that is designed to increase the grip between the clutches and the plates. this is a surface treatment.

So problem #1 is red alto designed all there clutches for performance which makes them VERY thin, the idea is you can pack more clutches and steels in a drum and make the engagement stronger. What they don't say is this requires machining of the existing drums because everything is a half size off.

next the clutchs themselves are again for performance only and do not have typical clutch surface drainage like a waffle design. again making them really for 1/4 mile runs.

problem #2 the Kolene steels are again half height and just off enough that you cannot stick one extra steel inside to make the correct tolerance.

problem #3 as i researched Kolene steels, the coating obviously wears off the steels and it contaminates the trans fluid and it embeds into the clutch friction material changing its engagement over time. if you go to the track and rebuild your trans once a month no problem, want to put 50K on the trans you have a big problem.

So in trying to make the red altos works i swapped steels around like crazy and bought the thickest snap rings that are still made, and STILL the clearance was below spec, i ordered oversized steels as well.

at this point i scraped the red alto idea and the kolene steel and i went with better raybestos brand clutches because of the thickness.

in the mean time, tools came in finally so i could rebuild the pump. I installed new bushes and seals.

my seal protector also came in so i could install the piston in the new 4 drum forward clutch. i changed from the 1973 version to a 1980s one with more clutches.

so now the last piece of the puzzle is finding a clutch i like and is thick enough to sit the way i want in the drums.

 

[72HCODE]

6/9 Update:

FINALLY got clutches that worked and were the right thickness.

I got the forward and direct clutches assembled.

i was able to get clutch tolerance of .030" for both the forward and direct clutches, with 4 clutches in each.

that allowed me to assemble the rest of the transmission finally

i had an issue with end play and i got lucky and found a #1 select washer, using the original #2 left me with ZERO clearance. with the #1 i was able to get .013"-.014" clearance min is .008"

I air tested. all the pistons appear to be working as they should, based on the noises and clunking.

i installed the valve body, and swapped the filer for a deep pan version.

I'm waiting on a new deep heavy gauge pan to complete the assembly.

the original 73 trans had 4 + 3 + 3 clutches and now has 4 + 4 + 4

so it is a little better.

well soon the real fun starts.

 

[barnett468]

.

xlnt . . what clutches did you use?

 

[72HCODE]

The better raybestos clutches. The red altos were so thin that I could not get them in tolerance no matter what I tired, I even bought thicker steels in addition to thicker snap rings and they would still give me tolerance over .060"

The raybestos clutches went right in and I just needed one thicker steel in the forward clutch and hit the mark on the first and second try.

I also used the thicker band from red alto for 2nd gear and it went right in and isn't touching anything so I think it will be fine it sits on the outside drum which is smooth all the way across.

Based on the parts I have to work with it was the best I could put together.

 

[Elizabeth73]

I wish you luck with everything. I just rebuilt my transmission for the first time and will be putting it in today to see if I did it all right. Hopefully you will be on the road soon to enjoy the rest of this summer.

 

[MotoArts]

72, thank you for the writeup. I've never delved into an auto trans before.

My personal sanity would have been in question, absolutely no doubt about it, if I had.

The amount of "what the fudges" and other unintelligible language I would have spewed... oh my...

 

[72HCODE]

I still have to get to my original transmission and see what failed inside.

the thing that i noticed, i got 3 transmissions to work on and try to make one good one.

1 transmission had been rebuilt in the past, the other 2 appeared to be factory built ones with lots of wear.

none of the transmissions matched tolerance spec at all to the manual, something had a max tolerance of .044" in the book and it would be like .080" when i measured it. this was pretty surprising, the rebuilt one was really bad. it just appeared like somebody bought a rebuild kit and threw it together, measured the play and saw it was totally out of spec and just left it as is, on to the next one. nobody took the time to figure out how to get the tolerance in spec.

i had to buy a bunch of tools, bushing installers, seal installers, seal protectors picks, snap ring pliers, between that is having to reorder the same part 3 times until i found a good one believe me i was pretty pissed off. i've had to start over about 3-4 times now and i really wanted to just give up a couple of times.

once all the parts finally came in and i had enough parts to mess around then i was able to really make progress. but it really took 3 transmissions just to make one good one. I actually had to take 6 parts off the really bad 72 trans, and 2 major parts off the 1980s, and then put it all together in the 1973 case to get one good one. then on top of that snap rings in various thickness and steel plates in various thickness not to mention 3 different clutch sets before i found a good one.

the after market is really hurting the restoration market because they are catering to performance and not OEM spec this is the biggest delay i had.

well i still have to get my old trans out and new one in then actually drive on the new trans and see if my work was correct and holds up.

I'm not 100% happy with how mine came out, i didn't know about how ford changed the cases and internals. i would of loved to make a stronger transmission but i could only work with what i have.

like i said i still need to take the blown one apart and see what happened.

but, this new trans is the best i could put together with the experience, parts and knowledge i have. try your best and you can say you did.

This thread didn't go how i wanted either. I wanted to make a tutorial on transmissions but i realize that was too ambitious, i found some excellent resources that i will post but i want to see how this project ends before i start down that road.

i now understand how the transmission works sorta and where things go and what they do so that is a plus taken from this project. I know understand what transmission builders of the C6 have to deal with. i know i can make a better transmission starting with certain parts, but i will be happy to have this one work for as long as i own the car without problems.

Well i will soon be answering that question when the new transmission pan shows up.

to recap:

I took a 1973 transmission with 4 main clutches 3 forward and 3 direct clutches.

using 1980s parts I made it 4 main clutches with 4 forward and 4 direct clutches, i upgraded the clutches to raybestos stage 1.

I used a red alto eagle 2nd gear band that is 1/2 Wider then stock. for 2nd gear.

i changed the servo from a "N" to a "J"

Changed the servo Lever from "J" to a "D"

I rebuilt the pump installing new seals and bushings.

I rebuilt the Tail housing with a new bushing and seal.

took everything apart cleaned it and reassembled, new seals (lips, o-rings), found some mechanical damage that was replaced.

replaced the missing shifter linkage from a 72 transmission onto the 73.

installed adjustable purple modulator.

installed a deep sump intake for the valve body.

made sure all the tolerances i could measure are within spec in the various manuals i have. everything is on the tight side but i figure it will wear a little over time anyway.

now i'm waiting on a new deep pan, so i can button it up.

is it the best trans on the planet? ha no not at all, but it was the best i could assemble from the parts i have.

I hope i didn't make a critic mistake when i put it all back together, time will tell.

i want to give a shout out to JAY (clevelandcoupe) and BOB (71steed) for giving me transmissions and helping me out.