To 4v your '72 Cleveland or not to 4v, that's the question.

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Joined
Aug 27, 2021
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Location
Williamsburg Virginia area
My Car
1972 H code convert., 351C 2V, FMX, 9in., Ram air, Pwr Steering, Pwr Disc brakes, air-conditioning, 15" sport wheels, Ivy Glo w/white deluxe interior.
Below are the casting numbers of a set of late 1969, 351C, 4v, closed chamber heads I found this past summer. There's also a stock 4v, spread bore cast iron intake for the heads but they don't match with numbers. This car will never be a Concourse car while I own it. Money required doesn't match evenly with my age unless we won the lottery, then I'll just find one that's already done. Lol.

Anyhow, I've been on the fence about doing this and we've been more focused with the effort of locating some of the original items that were cannibalized when the car was auctioned in 2006. The other issue is, our 2017 Fusion Energi Platinum PCM bit the dust 21 November 2022. We're so lucky to have fallen victim to the auto chip issues plaguing thousands of new vehicles and owners of ones that need repair. Ford has no idea when one will be available and we're getting rumblings they possibly will not be available until the end of 2023 or beginning of 2024. The only possible thing we have in our favor is the number of Platinum Energi's produced is low so on that list, there are few needed. Programing for those PCM's is unique when compared to the remaining vehicles that need them. We might just get lucky and it's only August when one comes available. (Said with only a slight sarcastic tone.)

Needless to say, the '72 is being pressed into use as an "almost daily" driver. Not even close to what we wanted but renting a car to replace the regular driver is definitely cost prohibitive. Cheapest was 109 per day and while Ford can possibly pay $45 per day, that leaves $54 in the balance or $1600 per month. We have a payment still so, not happening.

In the end, this means that any engine work will need to be kicked down the road and more important/ critical repairs to be performed now. This has caused me to second guess the 4v and maybe sale the setup so we can make the mounting cost of repairs more affordable.

The only thing stopping me is, the heads are bought and paid for sitting in my garage now. If I were to sell them, may never get a chance at another set and if I do, it's a possibility they will be out of reach cost wise.


That leaves the dilemma of, sell or not? Thoughts please?


cleveland 4v heads2.jpgcleveland 4v heads1.jpg
cleveland 4v heads.jpg
 
Iv got a complete 70 351 4v motor 50k miles all manifolds standard spread intake never been apart minus carb dist 1500
 
Below are the casting numbers of a set of late 1969, 351C, 4v, closed chamber heads I found this past summer. There's also a stock 4v, spread bore cast iron intake for the heads but they don't match with numbers. This car will never be a Concourse car while I own it. Money required doesn't match evenly with my age unless we won the lottery, then I'll just find one that's already done. Lol.

Anyhow, I've been on the fence about doing this and we've been more focused with the effort of locating some of the original items that were cannibalized when the car was auctioned in 2006. The other issue is, our 2017 Fusion Energi Platinum PCM bit the dust 21 November 2022. We're so lucky to have fallen victim to the auto chip issues plaguing thousands of new vehicles and owners of ones that need repair. Ford has no idea when one will be available and we're getting rumblings they possibly will not be available until the end of 2023 or beginning of 2024. The only possible thing we have in our favor is the number of Platinum Energi's produced is low so on that list, there are few needed. Programing for those PCM's is unique when compared to the remaining vehicles that need them. We might just get lucky and it's only August when one comes available. (Said with only a slight sarcastic tone.)

Needless to say, the '72 is being pressed into use as an "almost daily" driver. Not even close to what we wanted but renting a car to replace the regular driver is definitely cost prohibitive. Cheapest was 109 per day and while Ford can possibly pay $45 per day, that leaves $54 in the balance or $1600 per month. We have a payment still so, not happening.

In the end, this means that any engine work will need to be kicked down the road and more important/ critical repairs to be performed now. This has caused me to second guess the 4v and maybe sale the setup so we can make the mounting cost of repairs more affordable.

The only thing stopping me is, the heads are bought and paid for sitting in my garage now. If I were to sell them, may never get a chance at another set and if I do, it's a possibility they will be out of reach cost wise.


That leaves the dilemma of, sell or not? Thoughts please?


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View attachment 72350
Costs... The heads you have there before considering install should get machine shop attention. Corrosion in photos is not terrible, but not installable either without work.

Last two sets of "good" heads I had one 351C 4V and one vintage 302, budget around $1,000 to get them ready.

Then consider exhaust, your current 2V exhaust, the ports, way smaller than the 4V heads you have there, so open the checkbook again for manifolds. Oh and the hunt for good ones.

Iv got a complete 70 351 4v motor 50k miles all manifolds standard spread intake never been apart minus carb dist 1500

Makes the above offer free in retrospect, but then there is an engine swap.

Next question, why go to a 4V setup? For street use, the 2V is likely a much better solution. Gas mileage with the 4V was rated new at 8mpg. Ugh...

I went the 4V route as that is what the car was new, had to buy heads as they were missing, looking back probably better off aftermarket manifold and carb and 2V heads.

Good luck on your decision.
 
Below are the casting numbers of a set of late 1969, 351C, 4v, closed chamber heads I found this past summer. There's also a stock 4v, spread bore cast iron intake for the heads but they don't match with numbers. This car will never be a Concourse car while I own it. Money required doesn't match evenly with my age unless we won the lottery, then I'll just find one that's already done. Lol.

Anyhow, I've been on the fence about doing this and we've been more focused with the effort of locating some of the original items that were cannibalized when the car was auctioned in 2006. The other issue is, our 2017 Fusion Energi Platinum PCM bit the dust 21 November 2022. We're so lucky to have fallen victim to the auto chip issues plaguing thousands of new vehicles and owners of ones that need repair. Ford has no idea when one will be available and we're getting rumblings they possibly will not be available until the end of 2023 or beginning of 2024. The only possible thing we have in our favor is the number of Platinum Energi's produced is low so on that list, there are few needed. Programing for those PCM's is unique when compared to the remaining vehicles that need them. We might just get lucky and it's only August when one comes available. (Said with only a slight sarcastic tone.)

Needless to say, the '72 is being pressed into use as an "almost daily" driver. Not even close to what we wanted but renting a car to replace the regular driver is definitely cost prohibitive. Cheapest was 109 per day and while Ford can possibly pay $45 per day, that leaves $54 in the balance or $1600 per month. We have a payment still so, not happening.

In the end, this means that any engine work will need to be kicked down the road and more important/ critical repairs to be performed now. This has caused me to second guess the 4v and maybe sale the setup so we can make the mounting cost of repairs more affordable.

The only thing stopping me is, the heads are bought and paid for sitting in my garage now. If I were to sell them, may never get a chance at another set and if I do, it's a possibility they will be out of reach cost wise.


That leaves the dilemma of, sell or not? Thoughts please?


View attachment 72348View attachment 72349
View attachment 72350
I am a fan of the 4V heads but if it is a car you just want to drive and enjoy you might want to stay with 2V heads and save a lot of extra money and effort. You could sell the 4V heads and apply that cash to the aftermarket intake for a four barrel carb to fit the 2V heads. I put a cam and intake and carb and headers on my 73 Mach 1 2V back in high school and it performed really well, a noticeable improvement over the stock 2V engine.
That being said, have you reached out to Ford consumer affairs about the Fusion being grounded waiting for parts? Is the car at a Ford dealership? If you call the consumer affairs hotline there may be more assistance that Ford corporate can extend to you. I ran dealership service and parts departments for thirty plus years and was often surprised what the manufacturer's consumer affairs departments have done for customers as goodwill gestures. I have seen them cover rental over their normal rate when the customer proves they simply cannot rent a car in their area for the rental allowance granted. I have also seen them give purchase credits to the customers to upgrade them in to a new car, so it is as affordable as what they own, to rebuild your brand loyalty. There are a lot of options at their disposal to help customers, remember the squeaky wheel gets the grease. If you have been a long time Ford customer make sure to tell them that. If you have owned multiple Fords let them know, if you bought this car or other Fords brand new let them know. If you have been loyal you want to make sure they are aware of your loyalty. Manufacturers want to keep loyal people loyal, they are in the business of selling cars and want you to keep buying their product. An owner who has purchased multiple new Fords will get more offered to them than one that bought their late model Ford used at Car Max. I would call and see what they can do to help you, it can't hurt. I am sure there is an 800 number for Ford's consumer affairs hotline.
 
Actually, been trying to reach my case manager for Ford. Hava an extension and still can't reach them. I just keep getting someone that take a message and states they'll get back to me. Being really, I mean REALLY patient with this matter. I really will need them to step up, and soon. Granted much of what I do encompasses a Charitable organization and mostly volunteer, I'm not getting anything done.

Let's list'em;

A '66 Mustang, '71 Cougar XR7, '84 EXP (yeah, two dumb things in a row! Trading in the '71 to buy the '84), '97 Ranger, '99 Ranger. 04 Sport-trac, '09 Fusion Hybrid, '17 Fusion Energi Platinum, '72 Mustang; Yeah, I've owned a couple Fords. I can go all the way back to my grandfather owning a 1918-19 Model T and then a 1926 Model A (both real-time not collectables), leading up to a '76 Granada.

The idea behind going with the 4v upgrade was purely nostalgia based but then thought is I could do just a mild, almost stock rebuild of the Cleveland, it was going to be a great thing to pass on to our daughter. The plates are actually her initials. Then again, 20 years from now they may have real, flesh and blood horses pulling them around not the ones under the hood.

I just remember someone saying somewhere in the past, build a muscle car and own a boat so you'll have a really fancy anchor to keep that big hole in the water from floating away.
 
In a complete 180 about the 4v, plans for the heads swap had to take an about face and while there are only two on record, it's become very apparent that we are forced to deal with the decisions of the previous owner(s) once again! .

Yesterday, while on a late afternoon jaunt down Rt. 60, by the way, it really is two lanes of traffic in both directs that as long as there isn't a wreck somewhere between Richmond and Williamsburg on I-64, is an absolute blissful experience to drive. Almost as enjoyable as Colonial Parkway between Jamestown and Yorktown.

Anyhow, back to the new challenge. The OEM carb just decided it had enough. Actually, it's me who's decided enough but a decision had to be made. The need for a decisions to change the carb took center stage because of the use of ethanol mixed fuels being the main culprit. The carb just couldn't take the abuse of sitting idle for almost 3 years and not being prepped properly. The decision was made to go with a 500cfm Holley 2300EC 2v. Really thought about a EFI but the expense and reviews didn't allow the thought to launch.

I get it, real gas is expensive and difficult to locate but even the use of the stabilizers doesn't do these cars any justice. My guess is, it's the reaction of some of these older materials in the cars that suffer no matter what. Between the gum and corrosive nature of things, carbs don't have a chance. Plus, their blending so much water into fuel, without sophisticated controls like those on leat model cars, an old Cleveland or any motor just doesn't "like"them.

We have avoided using anything but ethanol free fuels the entire time we've owned the vehicle and if we run into a situation when we're cruising, we do keep a bottle of the fuel treatment but in the end, the cost doesn't equate. If we were to add the 4v, even just a simple and temporary swap with a combo kit, it's still five bucks a gallon for a car that gets maybe 10mpg on a steep slope with a tail-wind. T

The 4v heads and manifold upgrade will remain a possibility but it's cost in the short-term has made it impossible. For now, I'm committed to keep them with the car even if we sell. We'll see how the new carb works and as long as it remains as fun to drive as it is now, the swap will definitely need to be done when we pull the engine.
 
When I found my '71 Mach 1"H" code 2v, the previous owner had already swapped over to a 4v set-up, using the '70 iron intake and an AFB. I bought it in 1990. It ran pretty darned good like that for being basically stock. Years later, as gas prices started to climb, and as it was my only car, I considered switching over to a stock 2v set-up, hoping I could get markedly better mileage. I eventually did make the swap back to the factory 2v, but my mileage didn't increase really, maybe a mile per gallon. I went through the 2 barrel carb and jetted down two steps in an attempt to bring my MPG numbers up. Again nothing really improved to saying it was worth it. It was way back then that I installed the triggered ignition as well to help out with the tune. The car ran great, but still getting basically the same MPG.
So, fast forward to today. I've been driving and towing on a regular basis ever since with the 2v just fine, however, I re-built the engine 20 years ago and am currently assembling a whole 'nuther engine for my car. I am going to put a 4 barrel on again, along with some improvements to oiling and chamber quench ( I'll be using stock Aussie heads and dished pistons). I feel like, what the hell, if I'm going to get about the same mileage running the 4 v, I may as well run it and potentially get a power improvement.
 
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My Mach 1 is a factory H code. I left the 2v (small port) heads on it and replaced the inlet manifold with a Ford cast 4 barrel square bore inlet manifold (as used on Australian built 351 Clevelands in 74/75). I replaced the factory 2 barrel motorcraft carb with a 4300 Motorcraft. Had the jets set up for the factory cam and 2v - small port heads. While the car is no race car with the factory FMX and 2.75 diff, the engine breaths sooo much better and gets up and goes unlike it did with the 2 barrel manifold. Very happy with the results of just replacing the carb and inlet manifold on the factory 2v heads.
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I saw a U-tube video of a guy dyno-ing a 2-v vs a 4-v Cleveland. Both had 4v carbs and manifolds. Result was the 2v heads built torque way earlier in the rpm range than the big valve 4-v. Conclusion: Expect the 2v heads to feel stronger on the street. Use the canted valve heads only if you frequent the track. Plus 2v should be better on gas use.
 
They are both canted valve heads and I've run both with efi. I can tell you with a mild roller cam those closed chambered 4v heads don't have a flatspot that I've ever experienced and pull hard to 6800 rpm with my setup. Nothing wrong with 2 v heads however there's no denying the 4v head.
 
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