With great power comes great carnage

[Jeff73Mach1]

Well building a stroker does create some other issues :chin: I've known my transmission was marginal and kept telling myself that since I couldn't hook up, it would be okay for the time being.

I hooked up a bit better with my new tires Sunday. I damaged something, either the pilot bearing shattered, the input shaft bearing has been scorched or I may have twisted the input shaft. Not too worried about what it is, as it has to come apart for inspection, but I'll report back. In all likelihood I'll be changing transmissions out this Saturday to repair the damage.

Thankfully, when I removed the Toploader to convert to a 5 speed several years back I prepared for the possibility that one day I would reinstall it and I bought a Dave Kee Toploader Road race rebuild kit and had a transmission man go through and rebuild it. I kept everything, so cost wise, it will be under a hundred bucks for throw out bearing, pilot bearing, fluid and a new speedometer cable-(old one was burned a bit and is stiff.

The toploader ratios are better in 1st gear anyway and as to the loss of overdrive . . . I may have to change my rear gear ratio a bit-still much cheaper than continuing to fight a transmission that isn't up to the power levels I've got now. I know the toploader is a stronger transmission, and weight wise the difference is insignificant.

I probably will call Lunati and run my specs by them and make sure I keep my gear ratio in the proper range for the cam when I get to that point.

No pictures at this time.

 

[turtle5353]

Damn that sucks Jeff!!! I have been worried about the exact same thing with my little c-4 behind my 408 stroker!! I never hook up is what I keep telling myself too....... 45-50mph I can jump on the throttle and blow the back tires off.

Well keep us posted and I'm glad you had the foresight to recognize a potential problem a while ago and are prepared to deal with it.

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

I didn't have plans for Saturday anyway-the weather will be nice, I have a lift and a transmission jack and air tools to work with so it isn't any big deal. Whatever the damage is, it can be repaired, might be as simple as a pilot bearing. If it is, I may just fix it for the time being. or I may decide it is time for a bit more strength in the driveline.

A C-4 can be built to handle ridiculous levels of power.

 

[73pony]

That sucks. What were you using for a 5 speed?

 

[MeZapU]

What is the transmission doing?

 

[mudbilly]

When I read the title, I clicked thinking it was even worse damage.

I remember reading a thread on another forum a long time ago, where a guy with a lot of ponies under the hood was doing burnouts and shattered the clutch and flywheel. It came through the bell housing and he was lucky that he didn't lose a leg.

There are some shields, or steell bell housings, or something on the market to protect against this. I don't remember exactly what because I don't have the HP or the tranny to have to worry about it.

Bummer about the rebuild, but at least you're in one piece.

 

[rocket366]

Id be interested to know the results of the inspection.

Hope its nothing serious!

Paul

 

[MotoArts]

I remember reading a thread on another forum a long time ago, where a guy with a lot of ponies under the hood was doing burnouts and shattered the clutch and flywheel. It came through the bell housing and he was lucky that he didn't lose a leg.

There are some shields, or steell bell housings, or something on the market to protect against this. I don't remember exactly what because I don't have the HP or the tranny to have to worry about it.

My factory equipped 4 speed car was purchased by me with its stock 351C-4V and automatic in it. Clutch pedals were there, but trans was long gone.

While cleaning the underside for painting, I discovered a 2" triangular shaped hole in the passenger side of the tranny tunnel, and a big vertical dent on the drivers side... right about where the clutch would be.

Now I know why it had an auto in it :whistling:

 

[rocket366]

Thats why they make skatter shield bells.

I don't recall the ETA at the 1/4 MI track where it would be required. I think

it was abt 12C or less. Also helmet (of course) fire jacket, gloves and maybe a cage?

been years!

Paul

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

I have a lakewood bellhousing already. The car still drives, but it makes noise similar to a throwout bearing, and it has a distinct shudder on take off. It also has a "squeal" in gear when not under load. The sound is much worse in between 4th and 5th gear. It started immediately after a hard launch.

The transmission is a t-45 converted by Keisler Engineering (now out of business)

I've always known this transmission wasn't as strong as what I needed. I'm not too worried about what the problem is as I'll have to pull it to inspect the damage. Even if it is minor and easily repairable, I'm fairly certain I'll put the toploader back in, which is why I saved it and had it rebuilt in the first place.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

Yea when those flywheels let go it can be bad. Back in the day when there was nothing to do in town but cruise there was Johnny Brock's Drive-in in Hendersonville. He drag raced a Falcon with a hot 260 in it, think it was really a 289. Another guy in town had a 57 Belair hardtop, black fuel injected car. He was sitting in the drive in revving the engine to show off and the flywheel came through the floor up through the dash and out the windshield and bowed the top. It about took his foot off.

Another was at the local strip he had a new 1965 mustang coupe 289 HiPo built and would turn up to above 8,000. He was nearly to the end of the run so over 100 when the flywheel clutch blew. It cut the headers into the steering column into and screwed up the floor and dash big time. Also hurt his right foot.

At that time there were not really any factory scatter shields. So at the shop I worked at what we used was conveyor belt from a rock quarry that was steel belt reinforced. Would fasten to the bell housing and it would stop the parts. It was quite a common thing in early 60's when they just started to get the rpms up on the engines. Better parts helped.

Saw one come out at Bristol one Spring Nationals and stuck the flywheel into the asphalt.

High rpms will do a job on parts. Stupid guy at garage my uncle worked at was blowing a bearing out with air on his finger and it blew up taking his finger off.

That is why you should not do high speed runs without the proper tires. No street tire is made to run high speed. Yes they are speed rated tires but not for 150 and above. There is too much tread and the centrifugal force will throw the heavy tread off. The racing tires for high speed have very little tread on them.

David

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

Well I think it is fixed and it wasn't what I expected. I limped to the shop this morning about 20 miles away, but there I have access to a lift and a 220V welder. I had loaded my spare transmission and all parts to convert it over including a different driveshaft along with a couple of tools that I can never find at the shop like my grease gun and some hex bits.

Once we dgot it on the lift and started inspecting we found the most likely cause of the problem.

The rear axle had rotated and bent the rear spring perches badly. With every shift the rear housing was twisting up and the driveshaft was hitting the e brake assembly (even though it is run tight up against the driveshaft tunnel and has almost 4" of clearance at rest) and the rear u joint was binding. The rear U joint was toast by the time I made it to the shop to work on it.

We cut off the factory perches, welded on new Moroso perches which are a bit heavier and replaced the damaged 1" lowering blocks with some Belltech blocks. Before installing I also cut some 1" square tubing and siliconed it into the rear of the blocks so that there is steel in the empty space. We also cut some gussets out of the same material and welded them between the rear of the axle and the perches. Finally we replaced the rear U joint and I took it for a short test drive, even though it was dark and cold. I ran it through all the gears with no shudder or vibration and no unusual noises.

I'm having trouble getting into reverse, but I had backed the clutch adjuster off and suspect that reducing the freeplay should take care of it as it goes into reverse with the engine off. I'll do some adjustment tomorrow as I have no desire to get burned working that close to the exhaust and throw some paint on the repairs and take it for a more abusive test drive.

Now I have to go get some dinner.

Total cost of repair is well under a hundred dollars.

 

[turtle5353]

Nice, thats great news Jeff!!

 

[EdM]

Sorry for your problem but I am pleased to see the name Dave Kee as in the pile of receipts that came with my car is a Dave Kee top loader. Oddly, the original owner lives in San Diego and I live just outside San Antonio. By search I see he is still in business.

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

Nice, thats great news Jeff!!

Thanks-if you get a moment, take a look at the spring perches on your 8.8. I'd like to hear your impression as to their beefiness. A picture would be great. Heck I might get some myself later today.

I wonder if my new sticky tires and my stick shift were responsible or if the old metal was just poor quality and deteriorated. After cutting them off with the torch, there wasn't much left, but I suspect at sometime they might have had rust issues and been cleaned up by a prior owner with too much metal removal.

Ed

Nothing to be sorry for, when I built a big power engine I knew I would break the weak link. It just so happens that as each weak link is repaired and beefed up, a new one will be uncovered. Since I like working on this type of stuff and the cost was minimal this time, I'm not at all upset, just another dues bill to be paid to be in the club.

Yes David Kee is a well respected man in the Toploader world. I was almost looking forward to pulling and swapping the toploader back into the car . . . almost. I do like my 5th gear.

 

[TommyK]

Were you running a pinion snubber?

 

[Totalled]

Do you have a driveshaft safety loop? If not, get one.

 

[tony-muscle]

Jrff, That's great to hear it was not a big deal. Do you have any pictures showing the damage?

I am sure this info is somewhere, but what's the torque of your engine and whats the rear end ratio?

1971 M-code Mach 1

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

Well, today turned out good, but the transmission's reverse gear was not engaging. I think I broke a shift fork. After a little driving, I decided that it was time for a transplant.

I pulled my T-45 and installed the Toploader. It was a bit of a fight with the old driveshaft as the splines in the old yoke were ever so slightly twisted, but, otherwise it went fairly smoothly. I'll replace the yoke in the near future, but otherwise I think it is done for now other than reinstalling the short console and cleaning the mud and grease off the car.

Clutch was fine, throw out bearing was fine and the pilot bearing was undamaged. So we set up the shifter off the car and adjusted everything with new steel bushings, then removed it for the install and then slipped it all back together.

Drove it home with no problems, other than it sometimes seems like it won't go in gear. Once it does everything is smooth and there are no problems between gears. It only does it at idle. I'm guessing a bit of fine tuning of the shifter adjustment will clear that up if a short break in doesn't.

I'm not running a pinion snubber, with the Caltracs it should not be necessary, but I have one on the housing, just not anything for it to hit on the body.

Power levels are over 600HP and about 500 foot pounds of torque. Tires now are very sticky. Current rear gear is a 3.89

I didn't take pictures of the damage, but my buddy did and I'll get some up in the next few days.

I have to say the 4 speed wasn't at all unpleasant, though I am turning 3500 RPM on the interstate in traffic. It feels more like it should, I think.

I'll have the T-45 repaired, but it won't go back in my car. While it shifted nicely and performed well it is not a good match for my current set up.