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Total Control & Street or Track & Global West Strut Rod & Lower Control Arms


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All,

 

Finally get to update this thread. On the way to get tires and alignment, the TCP struts just rattles the whole car with I ran over some road imperfections. The next issue, is the Alignment tech,trying to adjust the caster, screwed out the strut adjustments to the point where it came a part. We had to remove the strut to get is back to together.He could not get the caster specs that were listed on the TCP strut instructions.

 

setup:

 

Opentracker Upper control arms

TCP Lower Control Arms

TCP strut rods.

 

It was recommended to get the TCP upper controls arms. Whoa! $795! Now, I do understand that the lower section parts are high performance where the upper is factory design. Please read the TCP Tech Guy post just above.

 

Mustang Steve Forum

 

http://fyi.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=2935

 

Since I am not going for the TCP Upper control arms, I am looking to pull the TCP parts and go back to factory style, slightly modified Lower Controls,(Open Tracker) and factory strut rods with good bushings.

 

mustang7173.

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mustang7173 🇺🇸

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway" -- John Wayne

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I know a lot of kits are geared that way and it does lower the center of gravity but the mount for the lca is way lighter metal than your shock towers. The freakride kit gives the best of both worlds.

I still have not driven my car more than a couple miles- so I cannot offer any solid advise on how it actually drives.  Horsing around sub 40 mph sans doors, hood and trunk it seems to be a hoot.  See

In answer to the question about springs mounted on lower control arms and if anyone has any thoughts about them. When springs are mounted on upper control arms the socket and ball take all of the

I think your alignment tech might be in need of replacement.

 

To get positive caster (what you want) the strut rods must be shortened not lengthened, pulling the bottom of the spindle towards the front of the car. If the alignment tech lengthenend them enough for them to fall out there was a gross conceptual error somewhere.

 

I actually had to cut about .180" off my TCP strut rods to get me up to +4 degrees caster (so I had a little adjustment left over), and I am in the same boat running non adjustable upper control arms. I also had to run the outmost lower control arm pivot plate to get any negative camber

 

Try taking it to someone else for an alignment before you toss the baby out with the bath water.

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I think your alignment tech might be in need of replacement.

 

To get positive caster (what you want) the strut rods must be shortened not lengthened, pulling the bottom of the spindle towards the front of the car. If the alignment tech lengthenend them enough for them to fall out there was a gross conceptual error somewhere.

 

I actually had to cut about .180" off my TCP strut rods to get me up to +4 degrees caster (so I had a little adjustment left over), and I am in the same boat running non adjustable upper control arms. I also had to run the outmost lower control arm pivot plate to get any negative camber

 

Try taking it to someone else for an alignment before you toss the baby out with the bath water.

 

 

Hello Bentworker,

 

Thanks for the response! I will look into another alignment shop first. Do you get a lot feed back on the struts from road imperfections?

 

Mustang7173

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mustang7173 🇺🇸

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway" -- John Wayne

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I am at least two years from being able to drive my rig, so I have no idea how it will actually ride.   Where are you getting the feedback?  The steering wheel?

 

Bentworker,

 

It Just rattles the whole front end of the car along with the dash. I did ask for information on the hard mounted strut rods and I did not get much feed back. I need to get the air cleaner and some seat belts before the full road test. I will update this thread once I have drive the mustang.

 

mustang7173

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mustang7173 🇺🇸

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway" -- John Wayne

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All,

 

I may go back to the original strut rods. Has anybody used these strut rod bushings?

 

Global West SRB-5 strut rod Bushings

 

http://www.globalwest.net/srb-5.html

 

mustang7173

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mustang7173 🇺🇸

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway" -- John Wayne

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I am wondering if something is a miss here. You should not be getting that much feedback from the TCP Strut rods. The solid mount with spherical joints should allow "plenty" of movement that you should not be shaking the car to pieces, although it will be a slightly harsher ride, but not to the point you are describing. THE Global West units above look exactly like the Moog ones I purchased for a lot less money.

73 Grande H Code. Headman long tube headers, T-5 Transmission, 3.70 Traclok, Lowered 1" all around, Aussie 2v heads w/ 2.19 intake, 1.71 exhaust, screw in studs, full roller cam 608/612 lift 280/281 duration LSA 112, Quick Fuel 750 CFM double pumper, AirGap intake.

 

- Jason

 

 

082-hot-rod-power-tour-2017-1970-1970s.jpg

 

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73pony,

 

So, what points are causing the road imperfections and noise transmissions?

 

 

1973_ford_mustang_undercarriage.jpg

 

1973_ford_mustang_front_wheelwell_0.jpg

 

Source: www.mustangandfords.com

 

Please respond to your thoughts on this subject!

 

mustang7173

 

file upload images

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mustang7173 🇺🇸

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway" -- John Wayne

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I have a few additional questions to be able to try to pin point the shaking... Just trying to help you out as you spent a considerable amount of money on this and would hate to see you have to take it back out.

 

What are you running for front shocks? Age?

What are you running for springs? Age? lowered? Do you have A/C?

Did you re-torque all of the bolts after a shakedown? Everything is tight as it should be?

What did you use for sway bar end links?

 

The level of shaking you described, IE the entire chassis and dash could point to a loose connection somewhere. Like I did state with the TCP design there will be some amount of additional vibration/harshness transfer to the chassis over a stock set up but again should not be to the extent that the dash is shaking or it feel like the car is going to shake to pieces.

 

Also, might be a silly question, how bad was the road you were driving on? I live in the Midwest and our roads are generally terrible, especially this time of year during the thaw cycle when the expansion joints on the roads start to close up too much too quickly causing a slight peak at each joint making it like driving on a washboard, not to mention all the pot holes caused by the salt and plow trucks. I am thinking you don't have this issue in NC though.

73 Grande H Code. Headman long tube headers, T-5 Transmission, 3.70 Traclok, Lowered 1" all around, Aussie 2v heads w/ 2.19 intake, 1.71 exhaust, screw in studs, full roller cam 608/612 lift 280/281 duration LSA 112, Quick Fuel 750 CFM double pumper, AirGap intake.

 

- Jason

 

 

082-hot-rod-power-tour-2017-1970-1970s.jpg

 

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Hello 73pony,

 

That is it 73pony! " Like I did state with the TCP design there will be some amount of additional vibration/harshness transfer to the chassis over a stock set up but again should not be to the extent that the dash is shaking or it feel like the car is going to shake to pieces. "

 

I may have over stated the dash rattle. It just feels like it rattling with you drive on the road imperfection.

 

It rides nice and smooth with a good road. The whole front end has been rebuilt, with less the 500 miles. Now, one thing I have is the front springs are the 620 lbs. with one inch lowered. I have always stated to use the factory stated spring rate. This I may need to look into.

 

There is the trade off with the solid mounted parts. That is why I was looking into the better strut rod bushings for the stock rods to better isolate the noise/vibration.

 

mustang7173

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mustang7173 🇺🇸

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway" -- John Wayne

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You know how a shopping cart wheel can flutter as you push it? That might be part of what is going on if the last alignment shop gave you negative caster instead of positive caster. Curious what it turns out to be. Honestly the stock strut rod bushings will do a much better job of isolating vibration, but they deflect so much that your caster radically changes as you brake and or corner. I know my ride will be a rattle trap when it is done, but it should handle like a go kart.

 

Peter

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You know how a shopping cart wheel can flutter as you push it?  That might be part of what is going on if the last alignment shop gave you negative caster instead of positive caster.  Curious what it turns out to be.  Honestly the stock strut rod bushings will do a much better job of isolating vibration, but they deflect so much that your caster radically changes as you brake and or corner.  I know my ride will be a rattle trap when it is done, but it should handle like a go kart.

 

Peter

 

That is an interesting thought on the negative caster. That wheel flutter could be exaggerating or amplifying the vibration for sure.

73 Grande H Code. Headman long tube headers, T-5 Transmission, 3.70 Traclok, Lowered 1" all around, Aussie 2v heads w/ 2.19 intake, 1.71 exhaust, screw in studs, full roller cam 608/612 lift 280/281 duration LSA 112, Quick Fuel 750 CFM double pumper, AirGap intake.

 

- Jason

 

 

082-hot-rod-power-tour-2017-1970-1970s.jpg

 

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  • 1 year later...

Hello,

I have a 71 mach 1 that has been undergoing a total overhaul of the powertrain and suspension and I recently took it on a test drive for the first time. I did the complete front end coilover varishock conversion along with the power rack and pinion steering, and the leaf spring and panhard rod plus sway bar rear suspension. All total control products hardware. I went with the 500 pound coil springs as the man at tcp suggested. 100% street driven. Big block 429 c6 auto.

My impressions of the end results going from factory ford suspension and steering to total control gear is this;

Factory: stiff and rubbery all at the same time, worst of both worlds. Hated it. Very dissapointing.

 

TCP upgraded gear: solidly controlled, not harsh, not bouncy, just right. Feel the road but not the bumps.

With varishocks on softest setting. Might try a little stiffer but not much. I preffer stiff springs and relaxed shocks on the street. Incredible improvement, very very pleased.

 

The steering is much improved also. Gone is the Lincoln / thunderbird

excessively easy one finger steering. Not a numb and over driven

Or over sensitive feel. I was afraid it would be twitchy , but it was not.

I really really like the change. The softer steering is what you might want on a personal luxury type car because it adds to the smooth and easy gliding feel of those cars. It feels out of place on a mustang.

The TCP rack is a better and I would say also a safer steering box. You are simply more in control as you drive.

 

Rear suspension: The car feels much more under control and planted.

Handles power well when nailing the throttle. Love it. No bounce and not rough.

 

Is it as good as a modern muscle car like a new mustang or Challenger?

No I would not say that.

 

Is it better than factory? Yes In a huge way. No question about it.

No comparison. It is superior in every way, there is no draw back or trade off

Except that it is no longer original. To me, if the factory suspension is very poor

And therefore not of any value. I have zero qualms about modifying it because I

Hated how it drove before. I say this about a factory 429 ram air car. Some people

would never consider modifying a cat of this value but it was so

flawed from the factory that it was an easy decision.

 

 

 

I also removed the original iron 429 motor and replaced it with

An all aluminum big block. I am sure the weight savings made

An improvement as well and contributed to the overall dynamic

improvement. I reckon it weighs around what a 351 clevland weighs.

I changed it all at once and the net effect was dramatically improved.

Before it felt like a heavy car but now it does not have that sense of mass

When you are moving along curvy roads.

 

I just wanted to add that I experienced no vibration or any harshness

I was expecting it to beat me up a little but I'd does not with the softer setting.

I was happily surprised that it really felt like the goldilocks just right feel I was hoping for.

 

I hope this helps anyone considering this upgrade.

I have no experience with any other companies products

For these years mustangs so I can not compare them.

I can say that I am extremely satisfied with the TCP parts

And of course the way that they were installed is critical.

I did use global west subframe connectors which look

Very nicely made.

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Are you comparing it to a refurbished factory suspension or to the 46 year old deteriorated, hardened bushing suspension?

 

Please go to the introduction section and introduce yourself and your car. Be forewarned, we like pictures.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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Hello,

I have a 71 mach 1 that has been undergoing a total overhaul of the powertrain and suspension and I recently took it on a test drive for the first time. I did the complete front end coilover varishock conversion along with the power rack and pinion steering, and the leaf spring and panhard rod plus sway bar rear suspension. All total control products hardware. I went with the 500 pound coil springs as the man at tcp suggested. 100% street driven. Big block 429 c6 auto.

My impressions of the end results going from factory ford suspension and steering to total control gear is this;

Factory: stiff and rubbery all at the same time, worst of both worlds. Hated it. Very dissapointing.

 

TCP upgraded gear: solidly controlled, not harsh, not bouncy, just right. Feel the road but not the bumps.

With varishocks on softest setting. Might try a little stiffer but not much. I preffer stiff springs and relaxed shocks on the street. Incredible improvement, very very pleased.

 

The steering is much improved also. Gone is the Lincoln / thunderbird

excessively easy one finger steering. Not a numb and over driven

Or over sensitive feel. I was afraid it would be twitchy , but it was not.

I really really like the change. The softer steering is what you might want on a personal luxury type car because it adds to the smooth and easy gliding feel of those cars. It feels out of place on a mustang.

The TCP rack is a better and I would say also a safer steering box. You are simply more in control as you drive.

 

Rear suspension: The car feels much more under control and planted.

Handles power well when nailing the throttle. Love it. No bounce and not rough.

 

Is it as good as a modern muscle car like a new mustang or Challenger?

No I would not say that.

 

Is it better than factory? Yes In a huge way. No question about it.

No comparison. It is superior in every way, there is no draw back or trade off

Except that it is no longer original. To me, if the factory suspension is very poor

And therefore not of any value. I have zero qualms about modifying it because I

Hated how it drove before. I say this about a factory 429 ram air car. Some people

would never consider modifying a cat of this value but it was so

flawed from the factory that it was an easy decision.

 

 

 

I also removed the original iron 429 motor and replaced it with

An all aluminum big block. I am sure the weight savings made

An improvement as well and contributed to the overall dynamic

improvement. I reckon it weighs around what a 351 clevland weighs.

I changed it all at once and the net effect was dramatically improved.

Before it felt like a heavy car but now it does not have that sense of mass

When you are moving along curvy roads.

 

I just wanted to add that I experienced no vibration or any harshness

I was expecting it to beat me up a little but I'd does not with the softer setting.

I was happily surprised that it really felt like the goldilocks just right feel I was hoping for.

 

I hope this helps anyone considering this upgrade.

I have no experience with any other companies products

For these years mustangs so I can not compare them.

I can say that I am extremely satisfied with the TCP parts

And of course the way that they were installed is critical.

I did use global west subframe connectors which look

Very nicely made.

Sounds that you did a lot of work. Can you post pictures? I especially would like to see the rack and pinion mod. How is the installation of the rack?

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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  • 1 year later...

I am bringing back this thread to see if anyone has updates and real use feedback on their upgraded front suspension. TCP or SOT?

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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2 hours ago, Canted 393 said:

Thank you. I have looked at the option of separate components but at the end of the day you end up paying about the same than just buying the whole Coilover conversion.

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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The only thing about most coil over kits is the weight gets carried by the lower control arm , here is another kit that some people like well. https://www.freakride.com/product/all-front-coil-over-conversion-systems/
Is it a bad thing to carry the weight by the LCA? What are the pros and cons?

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20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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I know a lot of kits are geared that way and it does lower the center of gravity but the mount for the lca is way lighter metal than your shock towers. The freakride kit gives the best of both worlds. I havent talked to anybody with the coilover kit on their car so its just my 1st opinion on it.

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Yes TCP has a similar setup where the spring attaches to the UCA. It would be nice to hear from someone that has used any of these. 

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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Here is another option with the coil over on the UCA from Maier. I use their rear leaf springs and they are amazing. They are more expensive but they may be worth it.

https://mikemaierinc.com/product/mustang/mod1-front-suspension-package/

 

EDIT PS: that page has some very good videos explaining the whole technology.

Edited by tony-muscle

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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I still have not driven my car more than a couple miles- so I cannot offer any solid advise on how it actually drives.  Horsing around sub 40 mph sans doors, hood and trunk it seems to be a hoot.  Seems very firm - ride is a lot like my Fiesta ST.  Probably will soften up a bit when I put the missing bits of the car back on.

If you want more options for an upper control arm style front coil over both Mike Maier Inc and Maier Racing have offerings.  Whatever you end up choosing I'd suggest you get one with asymmetrical UCA's swept towards the rear of the car so that you can get some positive caster out of the deal  (The Mike Maier UCA's are asymmetrical).  I ended up with the Hotchkis LCA's because they have a really awesome sealed spherical joint.  That being said they are a little bulky, the single tube from the LCA mount transitions to two tubes in short order.  I had to clearance things a bit to make the Hotchkis arms work at full compression on the drivers side.  It isn't a problem you would have with the TCP, Opentracker, Street or Track or Mike Maier LCA's, as they have a narrow profile.  I really dig the TCP style strut rod, it is sealed, and the pivot point is further forward than the other style of strut rods where a Heim joint mount is bolted in place.  The longer the strut rod is the less it is going to alter caster as the suspension travels. 

I chose my combo with the idea being that I wanted as few Heim joints as possible for the street.  I ended up with the TCP strut rod setup, Hotchkis LCA's and an older version of what Mike Maier is now selling for the UCA / coilover setup.  The only traditional Heim joints I have are on the ends of the JRI coil over shocks.  The UCA's I have don't have as much built in offset towards the rear as the new ones from Mike do.

I don't know what to think about the UCA vs LCA coil over argument.  Personally I don't know if it really matters one way or the other.  I chose and UCA style coil over setup  because I like the security of the car not hanging on one nut and a ball joint under tension.  With the UCA style coil over kits the weight is trying to push the upper tapered ball joint further into the spindle, and is using the same end of the spindle as was originally engineered to carry the weight.  All that being said I have never heard of someone breaking the lower ear off a spindle or any sort of catastrophic failure from using a LCA style coil over kit.

Maybe give me another year or two and I'll have plates back on my car and will be able to provide some real feedback on how the combo actually works.

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